Wish they could bring this here
https://www.southernvines.co.za/2018/03/19/big-league-land-cruiser-prado/
https://www.southernvines.co.za/2018/03/19/big-league-land-cruiser-prado/
Prado 2018
- Thread starter cgalloni
- Start date
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Jetboy
New member
not diesel engine like the Prado!
If we could get diesel powered Toyota trucks and SUV's, I would never buy anything else. 4runners and Tacomas are ideal candidates for diesels. We can thank the EPA for never being able to have them.
What i don't understand is why other manufacturers have diesel engines in their lineup, example GM, Ford, VW, BMW, and Toyota do not ? Should't these laws apply to every manufacturer
Hamburgerpimp
Member
VW as well.
I would buy it, I care way more about torque than HP in a truck. Hell the Torque is (332 lbf⋅ft) of torque at 1400-2600 rpm, very low rpms for a high torque just the way it should be, not like the car like Tacoma engine 265 lbf-ft @ 4600 rpms. not even counting the advantage of fuel economy and durability of a diesel. Granted the Diesel engine is more expensive to produce and to maintain but at least we should have the option
TrDpRo_J
New member
In GB they are planning to outlaw diesels in less than 5 years I believe so I can imagine brands like VW and BMW are going to probably back away from selling them, Toyota might then start to consider that too. The US diesel market is lame, I grew up in GB and 1 out of three cars was diesel but they destroy earth so its understandable why they are ditching them. Greater good and all
Jetboy
New member
Stated vs revealed preferences are often quite different. If the upcharge was $3,500 and it had 175hp and 25mpg, the take rate would be very low. It's slower, more expensive, never breaks even on cost, and has all the other diesel issues like fuel availability in remote areas of the USA.
If the 4.5L 1VDFTV was available - I'd be very intrigued. The 1GD doesn't interest me at all unless the 4runner it came in was 3500lbs.
A 2.5L turbo gasoline 4cyl might sell well though. Toyota's 2.0L turbo makes 260 ft/lbs at 1500rpms. Scaled up a 2.5L would be expected to make 325. And also make 300hp. Ford's 2.7L ecoboost is 325/375. Toyota's 5.0L v8 would also be a better engine for the 4runner. Or a mild turbo for the 1GR would be great too. Now that some folks have sorted out the tuning, I think a turbo may be plausible at some point, but I'm not holding my breath.
You're off base here. Just because a few companies certified their vehicles to one emissions bin and were caught exceeding their certification values by cheating the tests says absolutely zero about EPA. They could have certified to a higher emissions bin and made their cars comply without as big a hit to performance. Whichever regulations you think you're talking about not only doesn't care which powertrain a manufacturer uses, but is purposefully designed to be fuel and technology neutral.
Diesels are priced out of the market because it's expensive technology and gasoline ICE performance is getting awfully close to that of diesel for thousands less. For toyota to make a diesel motor that would be an upgrade from the V6 would be $3-5k for maybe 100 lbft torque gain and 5 or 6 mpg -- not enough to see a ROI. Blame toyota and blame the customers - if more than a niche of customers were willing to pony up the $$, some of us would be driving diesels. What we really should be wanting is a decent 6 cyl mated to a mild hybrid to bump torque to diesel levels.
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Throwback
New member
I know it flies in the face of the whole 4Runner experience, but it would seem that keeping the same frame and running gear that we have today, and dropping in a turbo 4cyl with a high efficiency transmission (8 speed?) with a much more aerodynamic body (4th Gen type) would get all these desires met, no?
2flyfishin
New member
After actually owning multiple diesel cars, I would definitely buy a diesel 4runner. Why do you think Jeep is adding a diesel option to the new Wrangler? The benefits of the added torque and mpg’s with diesels are real and let’s face it, the 4runner does suffer from a lack of both.
chester4Run
New member
I came out of a Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel) about two years ago when I bought my 2011 SR5. That vehicle had several shortcomings and quirks (read all about them in CRD sections of LostJeeps Forum). All that aside, mine gave me 190K relatively problem free miles, was a blast to drive, and was really capable off road (torque, short wheelbase, great transfer case, tight steering, good clearance, etc). However there are a number of reasons I won't buy another diesel vehicle in the US:
1. Diesel fuel costs more. You have to calculate your miles/$ rather than your miles/gallon. Diesel is taxed more in the US (presumably because fewer voters use it) so the cost is generally a bit higher than premium gas.
2. Diesel maintenance costs more. The engines hold a lot of oil, diesel oil costs a bit more (generally), and diesel engines tend to pollute their oil more (making regular changes important). I've heard people talk about a maintenance savings with diesel vehicles, but I haven't seen it. There are no spark plugs, but there are glow plugs that are hard to replace, expensive, and sometimes prone to breaking and destroying cylinders.
3. EGR. It's a bad idea on a turbo diesel engine. Some are harder to disable than others, but it's never "easy". In operation, the EGR has to choke the turbo in order to suck in exhaust which then pollutes the intake with hot gas, which combined with crankcase vapor (high compression) causes a mess, problems, and failures.
4. Transmissions and torque converters. Diesel engines are torque monsters an four cylinders means less explosions per cycle (two usually). This puts a lot of strain on the converter and transmission and leads to issues. The Liberty CRD was detuned with an update, and eventually a revised TC was released. VW diesels are well known for TC issues as well. Mine held up fine, even with a hot tune, but I was usually driving for mileage so I was fairly gentle with the transmission (and I knew of the issue).
On the upside, the turbo diesel was fun to drive. Mine had a slight lag off the line, but it spooled quickly and had a lot of jump on the highway. It's the best fun I've had offroad too. It was comforting to know I could fuel it with peanut oil, ATF, or other light oil in an emergency. I honestly miss it, but I wouldn't buy it again.
1. Diesel fuel costs more. You have to calculate your miles/$ rather than your miles/gallon. Diesel is taxed more in the US (presumably because fewer voters use it) so the cost is generally a bit higher than premium gas.
2. Diesel maintenance costs more. The engines hold a lot of oil, diesel oil costs a bit more (generally), and diesel engines tend to pollute their oil more (making regular changes important). I've heard people talk about a maintenance savings with diesel vehicles, but I haven't seen it. There are no spark plugs, but there are glow plugs that are hard to replace, expensive, and sometimes prone to breaking and destroying cylinders.
3. EGR. It's a bad idea on a turbo diesel engine. Some are harder to disable than others, but it's never "easy". In operation, the EGR has to choke the turbo in order to suck in exhaust which then pollutes the intake with hot gas, which combined with crankcase vapor (high compression) causes a mess, problems, and failures.
4. Transmissions and torque converters. Diesel engines are torque monsters an four cylinders means less explosions per cycle (two usually). This puts a lot of strain on the converter and transmission and leads to issues. The Liberty CRD was detuned with an update, and eventually a revised TC was released. VW diesels are well known for TC issues as well. Mine held up fine, even with a hot tune, but I was usually driving for mileage so I was fairly gentle with the transmission (and I knew of the issue).
On the upside, the turbo diesel was fun to drive. Mine had a slight lag off the line, but it spooled quickly and had a lot of jump on the highway. It's the best fun I've had offroad too. It was comforting to know I could fuel it with peanut oil, ATF, or other light oil in an emergency. I honestly miss it, but I wouldn't buy it again.
I just had a diesel and I had a different experience than your first two. Actually all four but I didn't drive as many miles as you did yours.
There were only a few times Diesel was more than premium - it was always in the winter - but it wasn't every winter in the 8 years I owned one. Generally its closer to the mid grade and often a bit cheaper than regular. I was in CA and CO. YMMV
What you have to calculate is miles/$ and include the higher cost of the engine (typically 2.5k to 5k) if you are concerned with saving money. I wasn't. I wanted a strong engine.
I'd say it's a break even when it comes to general maintenance.
Oil changes at 10k mile intervals but yes the oil change service can cost up to twice as much. I think I was at about 1.5 times as much for mine.
Glow plugs cost about $150 each (on a VW) but you replace them less often than Spark Plugs (80k or after generally). Also, all they are doing is warming the gas/air mixture to help start up. I drove a pretty long time with 5/6 working and the engine worked perfectly fine - unlike a faulty spark plug.
I think when people say there are savings they are talking about the typical longevity and reliability of a diesel engine. I'd still have mine if it weren't bought back.
Did you actually experience this?
There were only a few times Diesel was more than premium - it was always in the winter - but it wasn't every winter in the 8 years I owned one. Generally its closer to the mid grade and often a bit cheaper than regular. I was in CA and CO. YMMV
What you have to calculate is miles/$ and include the higher cost of the engine (typically 2.5k to 5k) if you are concerned with saving money. I wasn't. I wanted a strong engine.
I'd say it's a break even when it comes to general maintenance.
Oil changes at 10k mile intervals but yes the oil change service can cost up to twice as much. I think I was at about 1.5 times as much for mine.
Glow plugs cost about $150 each (on a VW) but you replace them less often than Spark Plugs (80k or after generally). Also, all they are doing is warming the gas/air mixture to help start up. I drove a pretty long time with 5/6 working and the engine worked perfectly fine - unlike a faulty spark plug.
I think when people say there are savings they are talking about the typical longevity and reliability of a diesel engine. I'd still have mine if it weren't bought back.
Did you actually experience this?
1996_Valencia_Owen
Banned
Sigh.. the number of folks complaining about wanting more options than 289 ftlbs (on 91 octane) is wild.
That's basically on the edge of small V8 territory, with 20mpg highway, 300,000+ trouble free miles for most, and decent acceleration.
Good luck getting a 160hp 5th gen diesel up to US highway speeds when it weights 5,000 lbs stock lol.........
That's basically on the edge of small V8 territory, with 20mpg highway, 300,000+ trouble free miles for most, and decent acceleration.
Good luck getting a 160hp 5th gen diesel up to US highway speeds when it weights 5,000 lbs stock lol.........
TrDpRo_J
New member
I feel you, I just came form a X5m with 550hp. The 4runner isnt so bad imo - you can't make everyone happy.
I'll take 2-300,000 miles over 550hp with constant maintenance
