Premature OEM LBJ Failure?

[K-Tanz]

I replaced my LBJ's with Toyota factory new about 30k miles ago. I took the truck in for an alignment and the shop is saying that both LBJ's have a small amount of play and need to be replaced. I notice perhaps a small amount of of play (maybe?) when I jack up the lower control arms and crank on the front wheels with a pry bar.

I am about to replace all 4 lower control arm bushings because they are shot and the alignment shop won't straighten the truck until they are replaced. Could the supposed LBJ movement actually be referred from the blown out LCA bushings? I am very suspicious of factory new LBJ's wearing out so quickly. I am not extremely tough on the truck. I am, at most, a moderate weekend warrior, and am not extremely tough on the rig.

With the amount of work required to replace the LCA bushings if the LBJ's need to be replaced I would just as soon get it all done at once. That said, I am suspicious of such quick wear, and would rather not spend the cash on another set of LBJ's if I don't need to. I am looking for suggestions regarding plan of action. I know the consequences of failed LBJ's and am leaning towards just replacing them. I spoke with Camelback Toyota and the LBJ's only carry a 12 month warranty so I am out of luck there.

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[octanejunkie]

I feel your pain and can appreciate your doubt

Questions for you:

How many miles on your rig, how much lift do you have, what size tires are you running and how much wheeling have you done since replacing the LBJs?

LCA bushings are a PITA to replace but not impossible, and it's conceivable that if you wheel hard, and they are the original bushings, they could be on their way out.

What does the shop have to say about UBJs and UCA bushings, OTRE/ITRE and sway bar bushings?

Problems aligning can often involve these components too

 

[K-Tanz]

I feel your pain and can appreciate your doubt

Questions for you:

How many miles on your rig, how much lift do you have, what size tires are you running and how much wheeling have you done since replacing the LBJs?

What does the shop have to say about UBJs and UCA bushings, OTRE/ITRE and sway bar bushings?

The truck has 191k. I bought it with 150k and it was pretty clean and appeared to have never been wheeled hard at all. I am running a true 33" tire in the 255/85/16, but those have only been on for maybe 6 months.

I will go out of my way to do an actual afternoon of wheeling maybe once every few months. Otherwise the offroad it sees is moderate dirt roads to rock climbing areas an average of once or twice a month. These are short stints of wheeling, maybe 5 miles at a time max. Some sections require 4Lo and locked diff, but I am, I would say, a fairly conservative offroad driver. Otherwise this is my every day driver. The LBJ's have seen approximately 30k miles of this type of driving.

I am running Toytec front lift springs over Bilstein 5100's for about 3.5 inches of lift. In the rear I have about 4.5 inches of lift with 5100's under Land Cruiser 7.5 wraps.

I have been running without a front sway bar. They made no mention of the OTRE's. The ITRE's are brand spanking new as I just replaced the whole steering rack because the ITRE's were pouring fluid out from the rack. This is actually what prompted me to visit the alignment shop initially.

Shop found that my SPC driver upper ball joint was shot (after only 25-30k miles). It is being generously warrantied by SPC. UCA bushings are Light Racing (SPC) and are apparently fine, and are about the same age as the LBJ's. They also suggested I replace all 4 rear lower control arm bushings. I have no doubt this is necessary as they are all original (to my knowledge) and clunk like a mofo. I have some Whitelines on their way.

Thanks!

 

[Lug1]

Different mechanics have different grasp of what's a bad ball joint.

If they're going to persuade you the OEM's are bad, let them make an actual check, "by the book".

Some BJ's allow for play, and not all mechanics can diagnose the difference between allowed play and "bad play" properly.

I'm not saying your BJ's are not bad, but you do have to get a factual check before you spend the money again.

(BTW, if they'll tell ya "we don't have a dial indicator", that's how you know to leave, and not to come back again).

 

[octanejunkie]

I'm no engineer, but half a millimeter (an average Credit Card is 0.75mm) is basically no play that the eye can detect, but you can feel it. I'd have them show it to you - but I agree about the dial indicator test; make them qualify what they are recommending with provable facts.

As far as LBJ life, if 30K out of 41K of the LBJ's life on your truck has been wheeling, that is a fair amount, but hopefully not enough to blow them out. The fact that other suspension components are failing/have failed is concerning to me, but I am not a wheeler, I just break stuff on my own.

Having sloppy LCA bushings doesn't help anyone, swap those out stat.

 

[K-Tanz]

Different mechanics have different grasp of what's a bad ball joint.

If they're going to persuade you the OEM's are bad, let them make an actual check, "by the book".

Some BJ's allow for play, and not all mechanics can diagnose the difference between allowed play and "bad play" properly.

I'm not saying your BJ's are not bad, but you do have to get a factual check before you spend the money again.

(BTW, if they'll tell ya "we don't have a dial indicator", that's how you know to leave, and not to come back again).

Solid. Thanks!

 

[frodiesel]

Put new lower control arms on and they should be able to align it.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[mtbtim]

I'm highly doubting your balljoints have play in the them that the mechanics could detect. With the naked eye, you're only going to see gross movement. If you want, do your own check to see if there's gross movement in the joint. Here's a video showing how you can do it. You'll need a friend to help you.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rteeAOQlrKY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


You could also wedge a pry bar between the LCA and the balljoint and pry upward looking for play too. With this method, you don't need a friend to help you.


Replacing the LCA bushings is actually very easy if you know the right technique. I've now done this job 3 times. I recently helped [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] with his and we knocked it out in 3 hours. The one thing that makes this job harder is cam sleeves that are rusted inside the bushing sleeve. Since you're in Arizona, I doubt you'll run into this issue. But, if you do run into a frozen cam sleeve that won't slide out of the bushings, you have to cut it out.

Here's a video you can use for the job. In the video description, we offer some further information like good cutting blades to buy in case you have to cut out a cam sleeve and other updates on the repair that make it easier than we show in the video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kmaZNBp1gZM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


When doing this repair, it's also the opportune time to replace your steering rack bushings and sway bar bushings if you haven't already done so. So, here's a video for that as well.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YywcR0E9bM4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


If you have any questions, just ask.

 

[JayRolla]

Most alignment shops won't lie. They want you in and out. They don't get money if they can't align. If they are so loose they are not able to align than they have major play. Easily seen with the naked eye. So check for yourself and then replace what's needed. You could also try another shop. Ask them to show you the play when it's on the lift.

Side note I had an oem ubj loosen up in 10k miles. Lifted rigs just cause some stuff to fail. Nature of the game.