Does the V8 AWD 4runner need to have this done? Propeller shaft = Drive shaft right? The 6 zerts on the drive shaft are lubed every OCI and with my old Landcruiser I never had to re-torque the drive shaft. Did any of you have your Propeller shafts re-torqued at your 15K mile service? Is this just some money maker for the dealer? If you had it done what did the dealer charge?
Propeller shaft re-torque is it needed?
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TechWrench
Senior Member
Pitbull said:
I believe the re-torque they are refering to is the flange bolts that connect the drive shaft to the trans/diffs. Just a safety thing, to make sure none of these bolts have loosened up.
toyo said:
Mobil dino GL5 lube. I will be changing the transfer case at 30K miles and figure I will go full synthetic with the diff's and the transfer case at that time. I just wanted to get the wear metals out of the diffs at 15K miles. Plus from what I understand the front diffs fluid has been kind of nasty at 15K miles in other members 4runners. Since I don't tow and will be trading at 80-90K miles this should be good, plus it should give the new owner a well maintained 4runner if they want to keep the maintanance up for the long term.
MicaBlue03
Member
Re-torque & greasing
I used a torque wrench and checked the torque of the prop shaft (driveshaft) bolts a couple of times (both front and rear shafts), and I can't imagine they'd ever be loose. The bolts appeared to already be way tighter than the torque specs, so I'm not sure why they want you to check them so often. Maybe certain types of operation (offroading?) can cause them to loosen.
EDGE, and Pitbull, I think the name for the grease fittings is "zerk" (did a web search on both spellings). I grew up on a farm/ranch and did thousands of these in my earlier years and found the 4Runners to be easier than most, but there is still the question of whether you want to only refill the joints or drive all the old grease out.
For the spiders in the Hooke joints, using lots of pumps to drive all the old grease out seems desirable if you've got contamination, but is probably overkill otherwise. If the driveshafts haven't been underwater or in lots of heavy dust, I think it's enough to just pump (maybe 2-8 pumps depending) until you see grease coming out of all 4 cups in the spider.
For the splined slip joints in the 4Runner there is a cylindrical cover over the joint that (I think) helps retain grease in the joint. The first time I greased this joint it took lots of (more than 20) pumps and I could tell I'd filled it when the shaft/cover just started to try to extend. After that, many fewer pumps were needed. I worry a little about overfilling this joint, as I'm afraid of blowing a seal and/or throwing grease onto the underside of the vehicle and getting it on the hot exhaust. I have yet to see any greae forced out by bumps, etc. since greasing.
In general, I'd recommending bringing a rag along to wipe the spiders and the slip joints after greasing, to reduce later dirt accumulation.
I used a torque wrench and checked the torque of the prop shaft (driveshaft) bolts a couple of times (both front and rear shafts), and I can't imagine they'd ever be loose. The bolts appeared to already be way tighter than the torque specs, so I'm not sure why they want you to check them so often. Maybe certain types of operation (offroading?) can cause them to loosen.
EDGE, and Pitbull, I think the name for the grease fittings is "zerk" (did a web search on both spellings). I grew up on a farm/ranch and did thousands of these in my earlier years and found the 4Runners to be easier than most, but there is still the question of whether you want to only refill the joints or drive all the old grease out.
For the spiders in the Hooke joints, using lots of pumps to drive all the old grease out seems desirable if you've got contamination, but is probably overkill otherwise. If the driveshafts haven't been underwater or in lots of heavy dust, I think it's enough to just pump (maybe 2-8 pumps depending) until you see grease coming out of all 4 cups in the spider.
For the splined slip joints in the 4Runner there is a cylindrical cover over the joint that (I think) helps retain grease in the joint. The first time I greased this joint it took lots of (more than 20) pumps and I could tell I'd filled it when the shaft/cover just started to try to extend. After that, many fewer pumps were needed. I worry a little about overfilling this joint, as I'm afraid of blowing a seal and/or throwing grease onto the underside of the vehicle and getting it on the hot exhaust. I have yet to see any greae forced out by bumps, etc. since greasing.
In general, I'd recommending bringing a rag along to wipe the spiders and the slip joints after greasing, to reduce later dirt accumulation.
greasefingers
New member
Re: Re-torque & greasing
I use a mini grease gun. Not sure of the capacity of the grease tubes, I’m guessing 6oz, but I emptied a full one into this joint trying to eliminate the “bump-stop/axle-windup” situation. I was surprised at how much I pumped in. It can still take some more but I decided to stop. I still have the “bump-stop” issue but it is very slight now compared to when I receive the vehicle.
MicaBlue03 said:
I use a mini grease gun. Not sure of the capacity of the grease tubes, I’m guessing 6oz, but I emptied a full one into this joint trying to eliminate the “bump-stop/axle-windup” situation. I was surprised at how much I pumped in. It can still take some more but I decided to stop. I still have the “bump-stop” issue but it is very slight now compared to when I receive the vehicle.
TechWrench
Senior Member
Re: Re: Re-torque & greasing
The driveshaft slip joint is NOT supposed to be completely filled when you grease it. It is designed to 'slip' in and out in order to allow for suspension compression and expansion. If you fill this joint too much, it will not be able to compress and this can cause stress on the suspension/transfer connection.
greasefingers said:
The driveshaft slip joint is NOT supposed to be completely filled when you grease it. It is designed to 'slip' in and out in order to allow for suspension compression and expansion. If you fill this joint too much, it will not be able to compress and this can cause stress on the suspension/transfer connection.
greasefingers
New member
I would not have normally squeezed in this much grease, but the “bump-stop” issue is the only thing that really bothers me. It’s my one and only real complaint about my T4R. It is much better now. I will probably not grease this again for at least another year, or until I feel that “bump effect” increasing. I swear mine must have been bone dry. Everyone in the vehicle could feel it, everytime it was driven.
Since the front and rear shaft both have 3 zerk fittings and look identical except for size do I do the same for the rear slip yoke, and if the slip yoke takes grease and you can overfill it where does it go
Thanks for all the info, some of the stuff I have been told makes me scared to even think what some so called professions will do once the truck leaves my sight
:
Thanks for all the info, some of the stuff I have been told makes me scared to even think what some so called professions will do once the truck leaves my sight
:
toybox
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re-torque & greasing
If you are not supposed to fill it then how many pumps would be sufficient?
In other words how do I know when I put enough in but not too much? Any recommendations.
I've already did the u-joints, I just need to buy a second grease gun because I am using two different greases. So I will be doing the slip joints probably this weekend and would like to know what is right.
TechWrench said:
If you are not supposed to fill it then how many pumps would be sufficient?
In other words how do I know when I put enough in but not too much? Any recommendations.
I've already did the u-joints, I just need to buy a second grease gun because I am using two different greases. So I will be doing the slip joints probably this weekend and would like to know what is right.
TechWrench
Senior Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re-torque & greasing
It's a subjective thing, I go with 4-5 pumps, and let the grease work itself into the splined part of the joint. If you follow the manuals instructions, they suggest removing the drive shaft, separating the joint, cleaning the old grease out and re-applying new grease and reinstalling the shaft. If you do a search on this issue, it has been explained elsewhere that the problem is that Toyota apparently was a little too close with the manufacturing tollerances for the inner and outer splines of the joint. So, once the old grease has worn away, the bump problem returns. Regular greasing ( every 6 months ) has kept my bump problem to a minimum. Also remember that during the winter months, the grease will be cold, and therefore will not 'flow' as easily.
toybox said:
It's a subjective thing, I go with 4-5 pumps, and let the grease work itself into the splined part of the joint. If you follow the manuals instructions, they suggest removing the drive shaft, separating the joint, cleaning the old grease out and re-applying new grease and reinstalling the shaft. If you do a search on this issue, it has been explained elsewhere that the problem is that Toyota apparently was a little too close with the manufacturing tollerances for the inner and outer splines of the joint. So, once the old grease has worn away, the bump problem returns. Regular greasing ( every 6 months ) has kept my bump problem to a minimum. Also remember that during the winter months, the grease will be cold, and therefore will not 'flow' as easily.
TechWrench
Senior Member
EDGE said:Since the front and rear shaft both have 3 zerk fittings and look identical except for size do I do the same for the rear slip yoke, and if the slip yoke takes grease and you can overfill it where does it go
Thanks for all the info, some of the stuff I have been told makes me scared to even think what some so called professions will do once the truck leaves my sight
I can't be sure how the Toyota joint is built because I haven't taken mine apart yet, but I many slip joints have a small vent hole in the female end of the joint. If you were to put too much grease in it, the excess should come out the vent hole it if has one. If it doesn't have the vent hole, then the only point of excape is thru the dust seal in the end cap on the female part of the joint. In either case, if you completely fill the void in the joint, and the shaft has to compress to allow for the suspension travel, neither 'vent' is large enough to allow the built up pressure of compressed grease to exit quick enough. If the end cap seal doesn't blow out, the shaft will be pushed into the both the transfer case and the rear yoke. So, the method of pumping in new grease and allowing the old grease of be completely pushed out by the pressure isn't a good idea for this type of joint. IMHO, it isn't a good idea to use that type of 'flush' method with the cross joints in the universals either. Think of it this way, you have four grease seals in each cross bearing. One at each end cap. If you keep pumping grease until one of them 'pops' and the old grease starts to come out, the grease (following normal hydrolic flow) will continue to flow to the point of least resistance which is the first seal to open up. The other three end caps will get little exchange of grease. I believe that if you just put in 3-4 pumps of grease in the center of the cross, the new grease will be distrubuted to all four end caps by centrifugal force as the drive shaft spins while driving.
MicaBlue03
Member
Greasy opinions
So the torque issue that started this thread is the easy part--it's the greasing technique that's really worth discussing!
TechWrench, I too would suspect that when greasing the spiders the grease would come out of the "easiest" seal first and never out of the rest. But while grease is a fluid, it's thick enough that it doesn't usually work that way. Only the most loose or worn farm equipment that I've greased acted that way. Sometimes it takes an extra pump or two, but grease distributes itself surprisingly well, even in summer.
I don't think there's a problem with forcing some grease out of the seals of the cups at the end of the spiders. The seals are oriented to allow that, and it does serve to drive any contaminants out. I just think it isn't usually necessary unless you've got a dust or water concern.
The slip joint is tougher to be sure about. Grease gets dirty but isn't actually "consumed" in these joints, so if you lube them with any frequency and with any significant amount of grease, they will eventually get full. I don't see any mention of vent ports or avoiding overfilling in the repair manuals, so I suspect that a big bump (and the subsequent compression of the spline joint) will occasionally cause grease to be driven out of the joint. I've watched and haven't seen this yet on my vehicle, but I can't see how it could be any other way. I worry about the resulting end loads on the differentials and transfer case, but not very much; I've simply never heard of this being an actual problem.
In the end, we may be making too much of a small matter, and both of us will be doing nearly the same things. If the joints aren't regularly subjected to dust, water, etc. then a broad range of occasional greasing strategies should be sufficient. If you've got salt or other corrosive stuff on your roads in the winter, then driving a little old grease out of the spider cups periodically may be a good idea.
BTW, I reviewed the repair manuals today and was unable to find any mention of dismantling the shafts as a part of lubricating them. They simply say to wipe off the joints before pumping in some grease. Dismantling the joint is described only as part of a replacement or overhaul of the shafts.
Lastly, given the fact that I was unable to buy the two different types of grease they call out and just used Mobil 1 synthetic instead, I'd be interested in any opinions or experiences with the separate grease types. After talking to local dealers it's clear to me that they use just 1 type of grease and it's probably not synthetic, and I'm not even sure they do that very often.
So the torque issue that started this thread is the easy part--it's the greasing technique that's really worth discussing!
TechWrench, I too would suspect that when greasing the spiders the grease would come out of the "easiest" seal first and never out of the rest. But while grease is a fluid, it's thick enough that it doesn't usually work that way. Only the most loose or worn farm equipment that I've greased acted that way. Sometimes it takes an extra pump or two, but grease distributes itself surprisingly well, even in summer.
I don't think there's a problem with forcing some grease out of the seals of the cups at the end of the spiders. The seals are oriented to allow that, and it does serve to drive any contaminants out. I just think it isn't usually necessary unless you've got a dust or water concern.
The slip joint is tougher to be sure about. Grease gets dirty but isn't actually "consumed" in these joints, so if you lube them with any frequency and with any significant amount of grease, they will eventually get full. I don't see any mention of vent ports or avoiding overfilling in the repair manuals, so I suspect that a big bump (and the subsequent compression of the spline joint) will occasionally cause grease to be driven out of the joint. I've watched and haven't seen this yet on my vehicle, but I can't see how it could be any other way. I worry about the resulting end loads on the differentials and transfer case, but not very much; I've simply never heard of this being an actual problem.
In the end, we may be making too much of a small matter, and both of us will be doing nearly the same things. If the joints aren't regularly subjected to dust, water, etc. then a broad range of occasional greasing strategies should be sufficient. If you've got salt or other corrosive stuff on your roads in the winter, then driving a little old grease out of the spider cups periodically may be a good idea.
BTW, I reviewed the repair manuals today and was unable to find any mention of dismantling the shafts as a part of lubricating them. They simply say to wipe off the joints before pumping in some grease. Dismantling the joint is described only as part of a replacement or overhaul of the shafts.
Lastly, given the fact that I was unable to buy the two different types of grease they call out and just used Mobil 1 synthetic instead, I'd be interested in any opinions or experiences with the separate grease types. After talking to local dealers it's clear to me that they use just 1 type of grease and it's probably not synthetic, and I'm not even sure they do that very often.
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TechWrench
Senior Member
Re: Greasy opinions
We could debate the process and value of lubricating u-joints for ever and there would always be differing opinions. My personal feelings, for what is worth, is that some lubrication is better than none, but too much serves no value. But given the way u-joints function, there is actually very little movement between the end caps and the center cross ends. I doubt that on most normal height vehicles, there is more that 10-15 degrees of rotation. I have replaced hundreds of u-joints over the years, and I believe that most would have failed eventually, no matter how they were lubricated. If you consider it should only take most technicians half an hour to change both u-joints in a shaft once it is on the bench, is is really cost effective to spend too much time on excessive lubrication of a component that will still eventually fail?
" BTW, I reviewed the repair manuals today and was unable to find any mention of dismantling the shafts as a part of lubricating them. They simply say to wipe off the joints before pumping in some grease. Dismantling the joint is described only as part of a replacement or overhaul of the shafts."
I may not have been clear in my earlier post, but I was refering to the slip joint in the shaft, not the u-joints. I can't imagine anyone attempting to dismantle the u-joints to clean and lubricate them and reinstall them again.
"The slip joint is tougher to be sure about. Grease gets dirty but isn't actually "consumed" in these joints, so if you lube them with any frequency and with any significant amount of grease, they will eventually get full. I don't see any mention of vent ports or avoiding overfilling in the repair manuals, so I suspect that a big bump (and the subsequent compression of the spline joint) will occasionally cause grease to be driven out of the joint. I've watched and haven't seen this yet on my vehicle, but I can't see how it could be any other way. I worry about the resulting end loads on the differentials and transfer case, but not very much; I've simply never heard of this being an actual problem."
I will have to do a search here and on the other site, but I am positive that at least some individuals have experienced severe banging in the suspension when they completely filled the slip joint with grease. If I remember correctly, one individual was chastized by the dealership when the mechanics had to remove the driveshaft and empty the excess grease from the joint so it wouldn't bang any more. I also recall one individual reporting that the dealership actually drilled a vent hole in the female end of the slip joint to relieve that symptom. IMHO, I think that was a poor decision on the part of that mechanic. Moisture could easily be drawn into the joint through the 'vent' and cause wear and failure later down the road.
I guess it boils down to this. I am a firm believer in normal preventive maintenance on any machine, but I believe that over doing it will not provide the 'imortatility' that some people think it will. A very wise mechanic I once knew taught me early in my career to always remember; No matter how well made it may be, EVERYTHING put together by man sooner or later falls apart.:
MicaBlue03 said:
We could debate the process and value of lubricating u-joints for ever and there would always be differing opinions. My personal feelings, for what is worth, is that some lubrication is better than none, but too much serves no value. But given the way u-joints function, there is actually very little movement between the end caps and the center cross ends. I doubt that on most normal height vehicles, there is more that 10-15 degrees of rotation. I have replaced hundreds of u-joints over the years, and I believe that most would have failed eventually, no matter how they were lubricated. If you consider it should only take most technicians half an hour to change both u-joints in a shaft once it is on the bench, is is really cost effective to spend too much time on excessive lubrication of a component that will still eventually fail?
" BTW, I reviewed the repair manuals today and was unable to find any mention of dismantling the shafts as a part of lubricating them. They simply say to wipe off the joints before pumping in some grease. Dismantling the joint is described only as part of a replacement or overhaul of the shafts."
I may not have been clear in my earlier post, but I was refering to the slip joint in the shaft, not the u-joints. I can't imagine anyone attempting to dismantle the u-joints to clean and lubricate them and reinstall them again.
"The slip joint is tougher to be sure about. Grease gets dirty but isn't actually "consumed" in these joints, so if you lube them with any frequency and with any significant amount of grease, they will eventually get full. I don't see any mention of vent ports or avoiding overfilling in the repair manuals, so I suspect that a big bump (and the subsequent compression of the spline joint) will occasionally cause grease to be driven out of the joint. I've watched and haven't seen this yet on my vehicle, but I can't see how it could be any other way. I worry about the resulting end loads on the differentials and transfer case, but not very much; I've simply never heard of this being an actual problem."
I will have to do a search here and on the other site, but I am positive that at least some individuals have experienced severe banging in the suspension when they completely filled the slip joint with grease. If I remember correctly, one individual was chastized by the dealership when the mechanics had to remove the driveshaft and empty the excess grease from the joint so it wouldn't bang any more. I also recall one individual reporting that the dealership actually drilled a vent hole in the female end of the slip joint to relieve that symptom. IMHO, I think that was a poor decision on the part of that mechanic. Moisture could easily be drawn into the joint through the 'vent' and cause wear and failure later down the road.
I guess it boils down to this. I am a firm believer in normal preventive maintenance on any machine, but I believe that over doing it will not provide the 'imortatility' that some people think it will. A very wise mechanic I once knew taught me early in my career to always remember; No matter how well made it may be, EVERYTHING put together by man sooner or later falls apart.
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MicaBlue03
Member
TechWrench, I think I understood that part of your earlier post:
"I may not have been clear in my earlier post, but I was refering to the slip joint in the shaft, not the u-joints. I can't imagine anyone attempting to dismantle the u-joints to clean and lubricate them and reinstall them again."
I was talking about the slip joints too--I haven't been able to find any suggestion that they be removed for lubrication purposes, and that seemed to be what you were suggesting.
I still wonder about eventually filling the slip joints since there appears to be no place for the accumulated grease to go. I don't know how the grease passages are arranged, so I can't say whether a few pumps are enough to ensure that the splines actually get lubrication, or whether it takes a greater filling of the joint to drive grease in there. I wish the repair manual was more specific here.
I agree with you about the fact that no amount of lubrication will make the joints last forever, and that in most cases only a modest amount is needed for these driveshafts. As a matter of fact I've posted elsewhere here that I'm surprised at how often Toyota recommends that these shafts be lubed and re-torqued. There must be some specific reason behind that part of the service schedule, but I can't figure out what it is.
Maybe the experiences of others will enlighten us on one or another point here.
"I may not have been clear in my earlier post, but I was refering to the slip joint in the shaft, not the u-joints. I can't imagine anyone attempting to dismantle the u-joints to clean and lubricate them and reinstall them again."
I was talking about the slip joints too--I haven't been able to find any suggestion that they be removed for lubrication purposes, and that seemed to be what you were suggesting.
I still wonder about eventually filling the slip joints since there appears to be no place for the accumulated grease to go. I don't know how the grease passages are arranged, so I can't say whether a few pumps are enough to ensure that the splines actually get lubrication, or whether it takes a greater filling of the joint to drive grease in there. I wish the repair manual was more specific here.
I agree with you about the fact that no amount of lubrication will make the joints last forever, and that in most cases only a modest amount is needed for these driveshafts. As a matter of fact I've posted elsewhere here that I'm surprised at how often Toyota recommends that these shafts be lubed and re-torqued. There must be some specific reason behind that part of the service schedule, but I can't figure out what it is.
Maybe the experiences of others will enlighten us on one or another point here.
