Pro's / Con's of Different Lifts

[G3 Trout Runner]

Hey Guys,

I have read extensively in the archives here and over at Yotatech. I even did a google looking for a simple breakdown of the basics of coilovers. Lot's of sellers but not any explaination of the idea. I still have a few questions. Looking for a max of 3" of lift and will be doing moderate off road action (Mostly like the trails Doodz did in his Trip Photos ( www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=4925 )...I did Imogene and the Telluride area in the past with a stock '91 Cherokee and loved it. Hoping to move back out that area in the next year or so).

1. I know the basic differences between spacers versus coilovers but I'm not sure how the coilover helps with lifting and the ride. Is it because the shock and coil are longer?

2. What are the benefits and disadvantages of coilovers versus spacers?

3. How many people are doing the diff drop and panhard bracket? I know the CV angles start out negative and it appears that the concensus is that 3" of lift on a 4th gen is fine. Does "fine" mean "no issues" or just less chance of issues? Also, I want to keep this as a daily driver and am willing to keep good on road capabilitites.

Thanks in advance,

G3 Trout Runner

 

[bulldog-yota]

1) COilovers see pic below allows you to set the amount of spring pre tension. Thereby allowing you to choose the amount of lift you need. The flip side is that if you turn it up too much it can stiffen the ride. The advantage is that you can chose how nmuch you want to preset your coil spring with, so if you add weight like a bumper you can compensate for it. The coilover basically has a large screw type bottom mount for the spring that can be adjusted on the strut itself.

Spacers in the front go into the strut assembly to preload the coil spring, similar effect to the coil over. They also have top spacers that go on top the strut assembly, thereby giving you lift without effecting the spring tension.

In the rear you can either fit a longer and stronger spring, with appropiate shock or put a spacer on top of the existing spring to gain lift.

One thing is that spacers are the only option at the moment if you have XREAS.

I do not agree that coilovers sag. It is physically impossible for the coilover itself to sag or compress. Due to the pretension of the spring it can cause the spring to sag, but the same is true for spacer lifts. Spacers can compress and sag, pending on the type.

You obviously saw the price difference between coilvers and spacers. Downey is currently the only vendor I know that makes coilovers for 4th Gens.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Oh, and dont worry about CV angles and panhard bar drops with the 4th Gen for the amount of lift you are talking about. Lots of guys are running more lift without issues.

 

[Good Times]

bulldog, i was just telling you what i've heard.

i haven't had any experience with coilovers myself, save for the fact that i have seen one of downey's coilovers for the 4th gen. and it promises an amount of lift that it definitely does not maintain.

So are you stating that the Downey kits do not provide the lift as stated? I'd like to know where you found this information as last I saw, their published height is pretty much in line with what I was able to attain.

Btw, all kits SAG. darn parts gets soft n stuff so it's all eventual. Just like stock parts where your suspension gets soft, any aftermarket kit will do the same. Any kits that states otherwise is full of BS.

Here's a basic run down of diff kits:
Spacers are cheap and works. Uses stock components and adds a spacer (brick like item for visual purposes) to compress the stock coil and is either places between the coil and top plate or on top of the top plate. regardless it retains the stock components. Some people w/ older gen's have used aftermarket shocks to give more travel but have used spacers in conjunction for cost effectiveness.

Coil and Shock (not available for the 4th gen yet) is the most common lift setup. This replaces the stock coil and shock (still uses the stock top plate). Most kits are usually 1.5 - 2.5" (some OME's are only 1.5") which means longer shock and bigger coil. Depending on the type of coils and shock combination you purchase your ride style will vary.

Coilovers is the most bling bling setup. It's been primarily used for desert high speed environments but has grown in popularity in all the other types of offroading. The ability to be able to dial in your desired height gives the user the ability to change according to what they feel like riding at The drive feel is similar to the coil and shock as it's basically the same except the ability to adjust the height.

Hope this clears up. If you have xreas then you're stuck w/ spacer technology as there are NO aftermarket vendors making anything else at the current moment. there are alot of rumors but nothing to show at the moment.

The ideal setup would be the coil and shock as they will hold the best value over time. But OME's are not available yet so if you're looking to lift, you can either go spacers/coilover or be patient and wait.

good luck

 

[Good Times]

Like I said - I don't have experience with the coilovers, Lance, there is no reason to get defensive. Anthony said the Downey rear setup was a failure because it didn't give the lift it promised, and that was why he had to use spacers as well.

This was a long time ago, and I'm almost certain he said you were disappointed with them as well. I don't know. This is all secondary hearsay, so don't get upset, I stated I didn't have experience with any coilovers other than through what Anthony mentioned of his experience.

I don't have a problem admitting that I don't know everything. I DON'T KNOW.

What I do know is that if those things settle over a long period of time, and that spacers do as well, then I still would rather spend the money to replace spacers than to replace entire coilover setups. That's just me personally though, spacers are fine for me.

Please do not take what I say personally as I am not getting defensive as I have no affiliation with Downey Offroad or any other vendor(s) item that I currently use(d).

Please do not write any hearsay information as misinformation by another vendor is a public no no. You are a vendor part of Nitrous Enterprises and it is in the best interest not to flame or destroy the credibility of the business's product. By crossing the lines, you will put yourself into a legal mishap so please be very careful in what you say and don't say. Thanks.



Now, let me clear up some misconception on Downey's rear suspension. I believe if you look at their website, it states something like 1.5 - 2" of rear lift (or something like that). If you do a search for my lift figures, it will be in line with what I was able to attain. I have never stated that I was unsatisfied with my suspension from Downey.

Unfortunately for Anthony, his audio setup caused his rear setup to sag (due to the excessive additional weight). I know we can all agree that the addition of significant weight will cause the rear suspension to sag. This is apparent even with the stock suspension on any vehicle. Now keep in mind that all parts will sag over time (including stock parts) so this should clear up the concern of whether or not items sag.

I'm sure this will lead to concerns of why I have spacers on top of my rear coil so I will put this out in the open. I have approximately 250#(?) sitting at the end of the frame. This additional tail weight is from the rear bumper, tire carrier and tire. The number is approximate as I never bothered to weigh the entire piece together but adding up the pieces individually, that's pretty much it. The addition of this bumper caused my rear to sag so I had to add the Daystar Spacer to bring the height back to what it used to be prior to the rear bumper being added. Without the rear bumper, there will be no need for me to keep the spacer as the coil itself does do what I needed it to do.

As for spending parts on suspension. If you have the funds to spend money on the expensive stuff then that's fine with anyone. Some people are content with the spacer lift and some swear by coilovers. Other swear by coil/shock so go figure. Just pick one that you feel comfortable based on user experience from previous generation to get a better concensus.

Good luck

 

[4route]

I wasn't selling anything here, and I've deleted my comments. Forgive me for relaying what I thought might be helpful information. No need to lecture in such a condescending way, and point taken.

Good luck on finding a lift. I'm sure more companies will come out with things soon, who knows. It's certainly been long enough since the 4th gen. came out that you'd expect more companies to join in the market.

 

[bulldog-yota]

gee now some of my replies look pretty stupid ????????

 

[bulldog-yota]

no they don't, bulldog, i just shouldn't have opened my mouth.

I deleted mine now too. LOL

 

[G3 Trout Runner]

Thanks to all those with input. This definitely clears up what I thought the setup choices were. I always enjoy the wealth of knowledge on this board. I agree that the intial negative angle looks as if they preplanned for a lift.

Doodz : I'm talking with a guy about a possible job in Durango. Very nice if I can score it. Originally from Albuquerque but now live in Maine.

Thanks again,

G3 Trout Runner

 

[Cliff s]

I did some measuring on my '04SE V8. The spec's list 9.1" ground clearance,
mine measures about 8" at the front cross member. The fenders measure 2.5"
lower in the front than the rear. It appears as though there is a 1" to 1.5" sag
in the front end.
I would be curious if the front cross member ground clearance on the V6's is the same.
My opinion is Toyota either has put the wrong springs in the V8's or has made a
miscalculation on the spring height.

Cliff s

 

[G3 Trout Runner]

One more question.

What does adding the lift do to the tire camber. Am I gonna be running on the edge if I lift it or is the suspension designed such that camber is largely unaffected?

G3 Trout Runner

 

[4route]

you'll definitely need an alignment after installing the lift.