Quality audio mod for $2500, makes sense?
- Thread starter BillSwan
- Start date
If it's just JBL you want, then go with the cheaper option and upgrade.
With a limited you get KDSS, push to start, auto lights, auto hvac, real leather, park sensors, etc
I would never get $10,000 of value out of a flexing car audio system. The JBL is good enough for me. Now about your use of spacers....so disappointed...lol
GX4SEVEND
New member
Those are two very different trim levels and look completely different. No car out there is worth that price difference for audio. A ton of people with the JBL say it sucks anyway.
I honestly think you are way over thinking this car audio thing. Buy the rig you want. People upgrade to focal speakers all around and add an amp blah blah blah for half that.
As far as the LS or GX sounding amazing I disagree. I’ve had both. Maybe the newer ones are better but the Mark Levinson system is crap at best. All paper speakers and magnets the size of quarters. I might still have the old ones sitting in the garage if I didn’t toss them already. Is it better than the 4Runner? It’s cleaner. But my amp also went out and it was an 8 channel amp and $500 to have it fixed and ran the radio, nav, heat and ac and everything else in the car. I thought it was horrible.
Long story short, spend $2500 on way better things than a stereo in my opinion
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2016 4Runner SR5
Senior Member
10K can be spent many ways. Either crazy system made for SPL or a system built for pure sound quality. You can go well above that 10K mark when building a car audio or home audio system. Just depends on what your goal is. As for spacers, the factory rear coils ride great. Nothing wrong with a coil spacer. Huge bolt on front coil over spacers on the other hand are something I am not a fan of. Tried it when I had my 2016 Tacoma and the ride was very poor.
Jetboy
New member
Put the system in a $500 civic and it's right at home at an sq competition (this is actually a thing btw - Lexus audio swaps into civics). Maybe MTV from 1995 wil be there?
2016 4Runner SR5
Senior Member
Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Just poking at you a little. My totally lame point is that we all spend money where we want to. You like to spend money on audio. I'm content limping around with my "totally crap" JBL system while waiting for my XREAS setup to die so I can put in a lift....
2016 4Runner SR5
Senior Member
I wish that were the case lol. Unfortunately I have more than just one hobby. I built an expensive SQ system but didn't love it and actually removed it. I am in the process of redesigning a new system that will include a 6 channel amp for the front stage, 5 channel amp for the rear stage and sub, DSP, and a number of other goodies. I also started mods at about 300 miles which included new wheels and tires, lift, and a bunch of other things since then. It's a disease lol I can't leave anything along for very long at all and I get bored easily.
Jetboy
New member
I have a pretty good idea. The soma always has a cold when the blind fold comes out....
This is a pretty good summary of how OEM high end systems are designed. And why your home brew will never stack up for anything close to the cost of one designed by professionals with nearly unlimited resources .
Creating the Perfect In-Car Audio System Is a Complicated Engineering Battle
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2016 4Runner SR5
Senior Member
LOL you're exactly the kind of person they love. Ah yeah mr sales man, I'd love to pay you $5,000 for a POS Bose OEM system because I could never build better for that price. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight lol keep wasting your $ I'm done wasting my time, like talking to a brick wall. Some people will just never learn and I love that you'll waste your $ due to this fact.
I just spent $3800 upgrading the sound system in my 2019 TRD ORP non jbl system.
I did infinity kappa speakers, 6x9 components in front and 6.5 in the rear (all 4 speakers) mounted with tacotunes adapters, powered with a JL rd/400 amp.
For the sub I used a JL tw3 12” in a JL truck box powered by a JL rd500 mono amp
kenwood Headunit dnx996xr
soundskin sound deadening in all doors and hatch.
I installed everything myself and now I just need to “tune” it.
I easily could have done it for a lot less (like $1,000 less). I think I would have been happy without a sub, but what the hell this is my toy!
I did infinity kappa speakers, 6x9 components in front and 6.5 in the rear (all 4 speakers) mounted with tacotunes adapters, powered with a JL rd/400 amp.
For the sub I used a JL tw3 12” in a JL truck box powered by a JL rd500 mono amp
kenwood Headunit dnx996xr
soundskin sound deadening in all doors and hatch.
I installed everything myself and now I just need to “tune” it.
I easily could have done it for a lot less (like $1,000 less). I think I would have been happy without a sub, but what the hell this is my toy!
Jetboy
New member
Do you say that as you walk into see Chaz at your strip mall audio shop? He's the one who can custom order a custom titanium cone speaker set with a frequency range that's not on the market for the proper timbre for your 4Runner right? Those idiots at Bose don't have a clue. They've probably never even been in a car before. Chaz - he's the man! He even has a row of trinket store trophies on the back shelf!
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cb1111
Member
There is an interesting part in the article that jetboy posted, specifically:
... audio packages are now designed-in during the earliest stages of a vehicle program, often to manufacturer specs that verge on draconian. “The aftermarket crowd would be amazed what we do with regards to power requirements and weight,” Barksdale says. “Our amplifiers and speakers are extremely efficient and draw very little power, which, in turn, reduces alternator load and promotes fuel economy. And for a compact car, we can do a whole audio system in three kilograms.”
Manufacturers’ obsession with weight extends down to the thickness of power wires, says Brad Hamme, senior manager at Harman International. “We’re now able to deliver an audiophile-style experience at 10 kilograms. And, of course, unlike the aftermarket, we have to test it at every extreme of temperature and vibration that the car might experience. We’ll play a system at 100 degrees ambient, then quickly drop the temperature to 40 below, then go back up. There can’t be any problems with that, no matter how many times you do it.”
If you don't need to worry about what it looks like, how much it weighs or if it stands up to the rigors of a car environment then you can, most likely, build a better sounding system.
Contrary to your beliefs, manufacturers spend millions and months or research in tweaking their systems for the best sounds within the constraints of the system.
If you add 50lbs of electronics, are you willing to diet and lose 50lbs to keep the overall balance the same?
And then there is the even bigger question of if you even know what you are listening to. As one of the early members of the Society of Audio Consultants, I can tell you that the vast majority of listeners wouldn't know a true quality system if it fell on them. Louder is better, right?
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$2500 would be a respectable improvement.
I've done the following and it came to $2365. I did all the work myself, so that would be the biggest difference in labor.
The sound is dramatically better, clearer, and stays clear as volume goes up. Road noise from tires and wind is no longer a concern, and the clarity (which was my preference above thump or volume) is superb.
Description Cost Notes
Front Door Speakers 6x9 component $110 Infinity Reference REF9620CX 6x9" install with terminals on the bottom
Front Dash Speakers 3.5" $46 Infinity Reference REF3022CFX 3.5" . Included bass blockers installed
Mid Door Speakers 5 1/4" component $149 Infinity Kappa 50.11CS 5.25" component with crossovers install with terminals on the bottom
Rear Hatch Speakers 6 1/2" $170 Hertz HCX165 6.5" 2-way and bass blockers 470uF install with terminals on the bottom
Powered sub 8" $129 Kenwood KSC-SW11
Kicker KEY180.4 DSP/AMP 180 watt X2 $400 https://www.kicker.com/files/test_tones/Lab_Grade_Pink_Noise_20_minutes.wav
Harness and Reverse harness metra $30 amazon
underseat amp bracket tacotunes $190 TacoTunes
Sound deadening - Vibro 2mm $600 Toyota 4Runner 4 door SUV 2003-2009 | Sound Deadener Showdown
sound deadening - Vibro 6mm closed cell X3 $315
speaker adapter brackets $60
Speaker wire $40 150 feet 14 ga ofc
SpeedWire 9-strand 18 awg $30 amazon 25ft
Amp Power Cables $100 Taco Tunes dual Amp OFC install kit
I've done the following and it came to $2365. I did all the work myself, so that would be the biggest difference in labor.
The sound is dramatically better, clearer, and stays clear as volume goes up. Road noise from tires and wind is no longer a concern, and the clarity (which was my preference above thump or volume) is superb.
Description Cost Notes
Front Door Speakers 6x9 component $110 Infinity Reference REF9620CX 6x9" install with terminals on the bottom
Front Dash Speakers 3.5" $46 Infinity Reference REF3022CFX 3.5" . Included bass blockers installed
Mid Door Speakers 5 1/4" component $149 Infinity Kappa 50.11CS 5.25" component with crossovers install with terminals on the bottom
Rear Hatch Speakers 6 1/2" $170 Hertz HCX165 6.5" 2-way and bass blockers 470uF install with terminals on the bottom
Powered sub 8" $129 Kenwood KSC-SW11
Kicker KEY180.4 DSP/AMP 180 watt X2 $400 https://www.kicker.com/files/test_tones/Lab_Grade_Pink_Noise_20_minutes.wav
Harness and Reverse harness metra $30 amazon
underseat amp bracket tacotunes $190 TacoTunes
Sound deadening - Vibro 2mm $600 Toyota 4Runner 4 door SUV 2003-2009 | Sound Deadener Showdown
sound deadening - Vibro 6mm closed cell X3 $315
speaker adapter brackets $60
Speaker wire $40 150 feet 14 ga ofc
SpeedWire 9-strand 18 awg $30 amazon 25ft
Amp Power Cables $100 Taco Tunes dual Amp OFC install kit
cb1111
Member
Bose's marketing machine built a company reputation of quality and "good" sound.
Bose's claim to fame was the 901 speaker that was marketed as a way to get decent sound without really exact placement. I always hated Bose, but I installed a boatload of 901/801 combos into discos back in the 70's
We've been programmed to believe that some sound is accurate and louder is better.
Jetboy
New member
I'm not totally sure why bose came into this, but they certainly have the expertise to make fantastic sounding systems. I agree that they don't necessarily actually do that in many cases. But they've made a ton of money off of marketing it. I'd guess a Porsche 911 with the Bose system sounds pretty good. They seem to target the mid-range systems in most vehicles. Probably a lot like the jbl system in the Toyota/Lexus lineup. It's not expensive and sounds okay. The Lexus ML systems are usually a pretty good value. Rarely are they over about $2500. And in the used market the cost is typically zero to find one with vs without. Plus if you want a GX with crawl control - it only comes in the Luxury model for most years, so it's almost always going to be together with crawl control.
I certainly don't dispute that a 4Runner could be made to sound better than a GX with the ML option given unlimited money and time - but I don't think you'll get there for $10k. Certainly not if that price has to include labor of stripping out the entire interior, rewiring, custom making new locations for a dozen more speakers, replacing the alternator, etc. All of these are quite easy to do at the design stage and a lot more cost effective for the manufacturer. And I have no idea what you'd do to smooth out the v6 to make it comparable to the v8 when you're actually moving. It's not exactly "silky smooth". So you could probably add some very low noise tires and keep the full OEM suspension system with all rubber bushings for the softest possible ride with minimal road noise.
But then, why not just buy one that has it all done already? That's why the logical choice points to the GX. Even if you're going to upgrade it, the GX has a better starting point. It already has a 17 speaker, 12ch, 7.1 audio system. Starting there seems like a much easier path.
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CougarHound
New member
Go to a car audio show and listen to some demos. Listen to some nice home theaters also and see what you like...fun hobby, but watch for diminishing returns. There is a lot of pseudoscience crap out there. $1000 usb cables, etc.
2016 4Runner SR5
Senior Member
You're right, Chaz has no clue what he's talking about. Chaz is not the topic of conversation here. I have done everything from SPL trucks to SQ cars. No one touches my vehicles but me. Believe what you want to believe but I doubt you personally have an ear for audio. That's why you are satisfied with OEM "quality"
2016 4Runner SR5
Senior Member
You hit the nail on the head. 95% of the people out there have no idea what SQ means and they are perfectly satisfied with OEM systems. There will always be kids supporting the industry that want to stuff as much junk into their cars as they possibly can, be as loud as they can. Remember the PA horns (not wave guides) all the HS kids ran in the late 90s early 2000s, I refused to even install them or work on any vehicle that they were in. You have SQ which is generally not a loud system but sounds incredible and then you have SQL which is much more difficult to build and tune. SQL for me is what I am working towards. Not insanely loud, but plenty loud for your average listener but it will still have the sound quality and depth of an SQ system. My system will be a tweeterless 3 way front stage ran though a DSP, all time aligned, tuned using a microphone at ear level. Kick panels will be manipulated until perfect before they are glassed with a pair of 5" midbass drivers on each side. One aluminum cone driver, one pulp driver in each kick, 8" woofer in the each front door, 3" full range woofer in fiberglass pods which will sit in the OEM dash speaker location and will be pointed at the drivers ear. 2 ARC Audio XDi serials amps, one is a 6 channel for front stage, other is a 5 channel for rear fill and the single JL shallow 10 which will be glassed into the 1/4 panel in the OEM sub location. It takes a lot of time and energy to get a stereo system just right, especially in the small confines of a car, but it can absolutely be done and it can sound amazing. As far as sound deadening, I have about 200 pounds of Fat Mat XXX in there already. Haven't done the front floor, rear foot well, or roof as of yet. Inner and outer door skids are done along with the inside of the plastic door panels. Had to go with stronger tailgate struts just to hold the tailgate open. It's a time consuming thing but it's well worth it IMO
