Questions about 5th gen extended travel options

[wfo9]

I'm trying to understand what is needed and what options there are to get extended travel on a 5th gen 4 runner.

I was eyeing this setup as a potential option to get more travel.
Metal Tech 4x4 FJ Cruiser Rear Long Travel Kit w/ Icon Coilovers

On the rear, it sounds like the only thing limiting down travel is the shocks, brake lines, and the need for offset lower links. Is this correct?

On the front, will simply doing extended travel coil overs make much of a difference in down travel? Do they require uniball UCAs (I currently have camburg ball joint UCAs with Moogs)? What about the need for LCAs.

Will extended travel necessitate a front diff drop?

 

[harper7]

I'm trying to understand what is needed and what options there are to get extended travel on a 5th gen 4 runner.

I was eyeing this setup as a potential option to get more travel.
Metal Tech 4x4 FJ Cruiser Rear Long Travel Kit w/ Icon Coilovers

On the rear, it sounds like the only thing limiting down travel is the shocks, brake lines, and the need for offset lower links. Is this correct?Yes and the longer springs so they don't fall out when extended and also the rear sway bar needs to be removed to get the extended travel. Feels pretty squirrely and unstable when I tried running without my rear sway bar.However ,I've been without my front sway bar for years and don't notice much difference at all with just the front removed.

On the front, will simply doing extended travel coil overs make much of a difference in down travel?About 1 -1 1/2" or so more down travel with Icon extended travel CO's as long as you have UCA/Balljoints to allow the extra travel.

Do they require uniball UCAs (I currently have camburg ball joint UCAs with Moogs)?Not sure as I've never seen the travel of the Camburgs . I compared stock, Light Racing and Total Chaos that I've owned and LR's,to my surprise, actually allowed almost a 1/4" more then the TC's. Couldn't handle the reliability of the LR's as I went through a set in less then 2 years and a PITA to rebuild. Love my TC's and super quiet since I rebuilt them with the new SS uniballs.

What about the need for LCAs. No need but Extended travel front LCA's require extended travel UCA's and a whole lot more expensive work to be done. http://www.chaosfab.com/2007-2013-FJ-Cruiser-2003-4Runner-3.5-Long-Travel-Suspension-Kit-86004.html

Will extended travel necessitate a front diff drop?No, not in my opinion as long as you keep the front lift under 3 " and haven't heard of anybody having trouble running without a diff drop yet.I don't even remember reading about anybody on the 5th Gen forum trashing a CV axle yet. YMMV

 

[LandCruiser]

Don't drop the diff if you're going 3" or less.

Most diff drop/relocation systems are an afterthought and mostly just make your diff dangle in the breeze.

 

[bimrunner]

I did MetalTech upper links as well for max control of axle angle in the back when I went to LT. Also, you do get used to no sway bars out back. I actually now prefer the feel of no sway bars front or rear, but it is not going to corner like a sports car! Running good shocks and proper springs, you should stay safe, but always remember that modification with off-road oriented gear is going to affect on pavement driving. Personally, I never plan to go back... Fronts are not going to be tons more travel. Some, but not a ton. Even if you were to add the TC LT kit for the fronts (3k), you aren't going to get more than a few inches. The axle is really the limiting factor at this point. The rear travel extension is sick though!

Edit: Upper links are not TC on my rig. I have the MetalTech upper links and lower links... don't know where my head was.

 

[wfo9]

Don't drop the diff if you're going 3" or less.

Most diff drop/relocation systems are an afterthought and mostly just make your diff dangle in the breeze.

I was not worried about a 3" lift. Was only questioning if extended down travel would cause issues. That is where the angles would get extreme, but it would only be for short periods of time, vs the normal running state.

 

[bimrunner]

I was not worried about a 3" lift. Was only questioning if extended down travel would cause issues. That is where the angles would get extreme, but it would only be for short periods of time, vs the normal running state.

Speed is what will destroy CV boots if they are extreme. Off road at full droop over obstacles is not going to be a reason for diff drop.

 

[wfo9]

I did TC upper links as well for max control of axle angle in the back when I went to LT. Also, you do get used to no sway bars out back. I actually now prefer the feel of no sway bars front or rear, but it is not going to corner like a sports car! Running good shocks and proper springs, you should stay safe, but always remember that modification with off-road oriented gear is going to affect on pavement driving. Personally, I never plan to go back... Fronts are not going to be tons more travel. Some, but not a ton. Even if you were to add the TC LT kit for the fronts (3k), you aren't going to get more than a few inches. The axle is really the limiting factor at this point. The rear travel extension is sick though!

I'm definitely removing the sway bars (or coming up with a disconnect that works and gets things out of the way). I worry because my wife and daughter sometimes drive my truck on the street.

I need a new lower link since I hit a rock and bent one, so I started thinking it might be worth going to extended travel while at it.

It got me wondering what is really needed to extended travel properly (besides the extended travel shocks). Sounds like the front is really not worth the money it would require.

 

[Jono.ful]

Your cv's have more than enough in-and-out movement to accommodate for the extra travel in an extended set up. I finally did a diff drop because I was getting bored of tearing cv boots at 3" of lift. After doing the drop, I lost about 1/2 to 3/4" of ground clearance, but I'm willing to live with that if it means I'll get more than a year from my cv boots.

 

[wfo9]

Your cv's have more than enough in-and-out movement to accommodate for the extra travel in an extended set up. I finally did a diff drop because I was getting bored of tearing cv boots at 3" of lift. After doing the drop, I lost about 1/2 to 3/4" of ground clearance, but I'm willing to live with that if it means I'll get more than a year from my cv boots.

You are the first person I have heard going through CV boots at 3". I guess time will tell. My skids (RCI) have a cross member added to support the dif skid. It allows for some clearance to drop the diff a bit.

 

[wfo9]

So, if I did end up going with this.
Metal Tech 4x4 FJ Cruiser Rear Long Travel Kit w/ Icon Coilovers

Would my existing UCAs work?
Camburg Toyota FJ 2wd/4wd 07-14 Performance Balljoint UCA

They claim they support more wheel travel, but I'm unclear if it would cause any issues and how much more down travel there would be up front. I realize you only gain a small amount anyway. Just figured if I was going to do the rear extension, I might as well get something that matches up front.

 

[470SNC]

As far as extended travel goes, no you dont need a diff drop, and yes you will need aftermarket UCAs since the stock ones will not handle the extra downtravel.

As far as the metaltech rear kit, you gain lots of down travel, but you lose a bunch of uptravel due to huge bumpstop spacers, its good for slow flexy stuff, bad for high speed stuff where up and down travel is needed. People have been getting around it by coupling the MT kit with coil spacers on top of the extended travel coils but then the rear will be super high compared to the front.

 

[Jono.ful]

You are the first person I have heard going through CV boots at 3". I guess time will tell. My skids (RCI) have a cross member added to support the dif skid. It allows for some clearance to drop the diff a bit.

when I had 5100's at 1.75", the cv fins were touching. 8 months later, I had a torn boot

 

[wfo9]

As far as extended travel goes, no you dont need a diff drop, and yes you will need aftermarket UCAs since the stock ones will not handle the extra downtravel.

As far as the metaltech rear kit, you gain lots of down travel, but you lose a bunch of uptravel due to huge bumpstop spacers, its good for slow flexy stuff, bad for high speed stuff where up and down travel is needed. People have been getting around it by coupling the MT kit with coil spacers on top of the extended travel coils but then the rear will be super high compared to the front.

I'm a little confused as to why you lose up travel. Is it the the shocks (or springs) that require a bigger bumpstop spacer? I mainly do slow flexy stuff in my truck. Can't think of any time I have wheeled at speed.

Also still wondering if anyone knows if the Camburg balljoint UCAs I linked above will support extended travel coil overs without issue.

 

[bimrunner]

I'm a little confused as to why you lose up travel. Is it the the shocks (or springs) that require a bigger bumpstop spacer? I mainly do slow flexy stuff in my truck. Can't think of any time I have wheeled at speed.

Also still wondering if anyone knows if the Camburg balljoint UCAs I linked above will support extended travel coil overs without issue.

Short answer: Shocks have more travel. Springs are what springs are (give them enough pressure and they compress).

With the offset lower links and swaybar removed, you are going to let the rear axle drop a bunch. Up travel limits are a necessary evil since we all are running the biggest tires we can stuff and we would rub bad if we didn't have the bump stop extensions Metaltech includes in the kit. I have never had an issue with the bump stops keeping me from stuffing my tires. It does limit up travel so that you don't rip your fenders and wheel wells up. I don't want more up travel for what I do. Down- yes, up- not so much since I'm happy with my stuffage (new verb).

Best way to know if your camburg balljoint UCAs will be adequate: call Metaltech and ask them. I think most of us with the LT are running TC, LR or Icon.

 

[fattire]

Aren't the longer bump stops primarily there to keep the shock from bottoming out at full compression (with rubbing really a secondary benefit)? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Jono.ful]

stock wheels and 265/70/17 tires with bilstein 5160 and ome springs

17x9 Ultra Bolts -12 offset, 285/70/17 goodyear MTR's with Radflo 2.5" long travel and remote resi, Metaltech 4 link and progressive rate long travel springs, and no sway bar

not quite sitting on the bump stops here, but you can still get lots of up travel and stuff with a long travel rear

 

[wfo9]

Short answer: Shocks have more travel. Springs are what springs are (give them enough pressure and they compress).

With the offset lower links and swaybar removed, you are going to let the rear axle drop a bunch. Up travel limits are a necessary evil since we all are running the biggest tires we can stuff and we would rub bad if we didn't have the bump stop extensions Metaltech includes in the kit. I have never had an issue with the bump stops keeping me from stuffing my tires. It does limit up travel so that you don't rip your fenders and wheel wells up. I don't want more up travel for what I do. Down- yes, up- not so much since I'm happy with my stuffage (new verb).

Best way to know if your camburg balljoint UCAs will be adequate: call Metaltech and ask them. I think most of us with the LT are running TC, LR or Icon.

Still a little confused as to why the bump stops need to be bigger than stock with LT. The fact that the shocks might have a longer fully compressed length is all I can come up with. So you would need bigger stops to keep them from ever bottoming out.

The bump stops that are there stock keep the tires from hitting the fender while stuffed via up travel. Why would they need to be bigger when increasing down travel? Is it related to the fact that with one wheel having more down travel the other wheel ends up at a greater angle and therefore needs to be held out further to keep it from hitting?

 

[bimrunner]

Still a little confused as to why the bump stops need to be bigger than stock with LT. The fact that the shocks might have a longer fully compressed length is all I can come up with. So you would need bigger stops to keep them from ever bottoming out.

The bump stops that are there stock keep the tires from hitting the fender while stuffed. Why would they need to be bigger when increasing down travel? Is it related to the fact that with one wheel having more down travel the other wheel ends up at a greater angle and therefore needs to be held out further to keep it from hitting?

Yep. You are changing the angle with the added flex. Trust me, you won't miss it.

 

[wfo9]

Yep. You are changing the angle with the added flex. Trust me, you won't miss it.

Got it! Looks like fun!

 

[wfo9]

I did a little more research and it looks like the bump stops are related to the fully compressed height of the shock. I found a chart over on an fj forum after doing a google search

It listed stock rear shocks as being 14.5" fully compressed and 22.5" fully extended with no need for a bump stop spacer. Compared to the icon LTs at 17" fully compressed and 28.5" fully extended and requiring a 1.5" bump stop spacer. The shocks themselves only provide 3 more inches of travel compared to stock. It looks like way more in the rear world.