Really frustrated with snow traction...

[KB084RUNNER]

My Duelers were like driving on wet glass...got a set of Michelin Latitudes 3 weeks ago and rode right through the 2 foot snow storm we had a week later. Tires are everything on a 4runner. Plus lock the center diff (x) :biggrin2:

 

[CaliDreamer]

Poor Comparison

I really think your being unfair in your comparison. First of all, look at the differences in vehicles. Your 4runner is rear wheel drive (by default),.. the Corolla is front wheel drive. Anyone who knows winter driving knows that FWD will outperform RWD any day. Of course AWD is preferable, but of the two FWD tracks better and is generally safer in slippery conditions, primarily because the weight of the engine is directly over the wheels. With that said, it all comes down to traction which has nothing to do with the vehicle (except the weight it imparts, which depending on circumstances may or may not help). Traction is the sole responsibility of the tires.

This is all to say that the 4runner can only do so much. Prepare for snow with proper tires, switch to 4WD (if possible) prior to encountering slick conditions, and drive smart and safe. Fact of the matter is that the 4runner was built as a capable off-road/daily driver. It can hold it's own in snow and ice, but that's not where it shines.

 

[2005v8sport]

I too am disappointed with the snow capabilities of my 2005 V sport. The alltime 4wheel drive is a joke, you try and turn in snow and ice good luck you are going sideways unless you are driving slow. You hit deep snow good luck, the stupid electronic bs kicks in and you loose all momentum and the atrac/ VSC whatever it is pulls timing( I believe either that or abs kicks in and you can floor it but it bogs down).

The only way you can run with some confidence is with the center diff lock engaged period if you encounter snow especially the deep stuff. This is my 10th toyota starting from 81, 82, 85, 87, 91, 95, 2001. etc and they all did much better because there was less computer intrusion and more of a real legit 4 wheel drive system. It was a pain in the ass but I I still remember getting out to lock the hubs. You knew your were in 4 wheel drive, you had like 2 high, 2 low 4 high 4 low, etc. So you had options depending on conditions(mud, Ice, snow) not just two( in my case V8 sport which is AWD I only have Center Diff Locked and 4 low). I wish I could turn traction control off, why did toyota not put a button like pretty much every other car on the road( i know they did on newer models).


I do agree tires are very important and would highly highly recommend getting a winter snow and ice tire AKA winter tire. It makes a huge I mean huge difference. I am writing this as my truck got stuck last year with stock all season tires and we got the worst snow storm ever, like 3 feet. I was very embarrassed with my truck(all my former toys were lifted with tires ranging for 33 to 39s') when I would hit a drift and just stop and tires started to spin. Then i push the diff lock button and then it just beeps annoyingly, now I have to completely stop(thus losing momentum, which is important in deep snow) to put the tranny in neutral to lock center diff lock. By then I am screwed.


The moral of my long winded post and why I am writing is I just cleared off the snow from my chicks 2008 V8 all wheel drive X5 with pirelli scorpion snow & ice tires. It was sitting all day and we got about 12 inches maybe a bit more because of the drifts. I get in the truck turn on seat warmers, defrosters,and turn of DTC. I put the truck in drive barely giving it any gas whatsoever. To my astonishment this thing doesn't even break a sweat. No annoying clicking noises(like our trucks) nothing just as smooth and confidence inspiring as if there was no snow or ice. I try to get squarely around a turn, smooth as glass. I jam the breaks on and no annoying abs kicking in all crazily. I drive into a huge snow drift and stop and start to think if I was in my truck I would be screwed. Again give it gas and it motors right through. I mean I guess thats what $75,000 of bavarian enginering gets you:lmao:

So in closing I still love my truck and this year I did a few mods so I wouldn't have to sweat 2 or 3 feet of snow or be embarrassed with snow handling. But after driving mine for the last 5 hours(if you live in dc thats the average commute time during this storm today)spent helping countless people with my tow strap and shovel, I wanted to speak my opinion since I felt it was pertinent to the conversation.

ps, what my truck looks like now.

 

[Glock_19]

But after driving mine for the last 5 hours(if you live in dc thats the average commute time during this storm today)spent helping countless people with my tow strap and shovel, I wanted to speak my opinion since I felt it was pertinent to the conversation.

You're right about that, there were tons of people stuck on 50 right behind my apartment. I helped people dig out all night. The good thing about having the 4Runner was I left downtown at 4 and was home in Arlington by 5 (drove right around those suckers).

 

[Jerrydog]

Just to clarify, the problem isn't with deep snow (haven't had a chance to take it into any yet), it's more of either packed snow or slush that I'm having the problem. When turning, even at slow speeds, it just feels like the back end wants to slip, so I slow down even more, otherwise, the back end will whip around and the traction control kicks in.

I thought that maybe I was just in slick stuff, but considering my corolla doesn't have the same problem of the back kicking out makes me think there's either something up with the tires or with the balance of the 4Runner. When I had my '06, it felt like it was stuck to the ground, but for some reason, this one feels different. Wish I would have remembered which tires came with it...

You need weight in the back....250-300lbs I had the problem you spoke of with my IH scout, weight fixed it, same with my pathfinder, weight fixed it, havent had it with my 4runner I added weight the day I picked it up. :frog:

 

[DocMT]

The alltime 4wheel drive is a joke, you try and turn in snow and ice good luck you are going sideways unless you are driving slow.

LOL, the 4wd system has nothing to do with turning in snow and sliding sideways. Like you said, unless you are driving slow, you WILL go sideways when turning in snow. That's true for every car/truck/SUV on earth.

You hit deep snow good luck, the stupid electronic bs kicks in and you loose all momentum and the atrac/ VSC whatever it is pulls timing( I believe either that or abs kicks in and you can floor it but it bogs down).

[/IMG]

Unless you're trying do doughnuts in the snow or fishtail in a parking lot or something like that, it's good for the ATRAC/VSC to kick in. If you were to disable it in deep snow, you'd do nothing but spin your tires anyway and you'd still be stuck. At least with the ATRAC engaged, the 4Runner will attemp to find any available traction to keep you moving. It sounds to me like you should learn more about the system instead of talking about how horrible it is in snow.

 

[scottm]

This is all subjective, my son's '00 Impreza with well-worn tires feels more sure-footed in snow than my 4R, but it's not. I'm on snow all Winter here, and I enjoy pushing the corners to feel a little slip, my 4R does fine on old all-seasons. Not as well as my Land Cruiser on Blizzaks, that thing is a monster in snow. And the traction control will let you spin if you get on it, much more sophisticated than my 4R. But I feel very confident in my 4R now that I've gotten used to it.

 

[Burt]

I too, have noticed my '08 V6 being a little squirrely on icy and PP road conditions. I replaced the Michellens with Hankook DynaPro RF10's. Big improvement here. Go easy on the throttle, this thing will spin out easy due to its light weight.

 

[Presta24]

i have dakota definity A/T's (pepboys) they are all but worn out, bout 3/32 left, my 4runner actually does really well in the snow....except when trying to slow down and turn, the front breaks loose pretty easy if i brake too fast, and i cant stear, i assume its that i need new tires, but in a striagnt line i can hammer it down with very little slippaage

 

[Nuke]

Certainly additional weight in the rear will help. This is my 3rd T4R and all 3 are squirrely in the snow. It takes a bit of getting used to. Tires and tire pressure are the key. There are very few All-seasons that are worth a damn in snow. Michelin uses a harder-than-average rubber compound which gives them their high mileage rating but sacrifices grip and flexibility in cold weather; the latter of which helps clean the tread of packed snow as the tire rotates off the contact patch. Also, what tire pressure are you running? Normal 30-32 PSI range should be fine but for best traction, airing down a few more PSI will help. Just remember to add air afterwards.

 

[Hi-Fi]

Michelin LTX A/T2 experience

I'm running Michelin LTX AT2's. I haven't had anything stop me yet. Not that we get feet of snow here in NC, but mine does great.

I have new A/T2's on my 4runner too. They stick so good I haven't been able to have any "fun" in the snow. It seems like these tires just won't slip no matter what I do. I can't even make the ABS work! No fun at all.

The tires I took off were terrible in comparison. Lots of "fun"... way too much "fun".

I couldn't be happier with my decision to buy these tires.

Bill

 

[CNJ Runner]

Got almost a foot of fresh snow last night.. was making cutting paths thru unplowed streets and got stuck going over a downed branch very embarrassing as all the residents on the street were watching me go up and down like a ****. Needless to say, after a quick 5 minute clearing of snow I was on my way again.. But did get stuck. and now im shopping for a meater/better All terrain tire that performs better in the snow, any suggestions my fellow T4R's? Im looking for something that will fit on my stock suspension as my truck isnt lifted yet. I do mainly road driving, but definitely want and all terrain tire that does better in the snow and isnt tmuch louder than dunlops on highway . all sugestions would be appreciated. respond here or pm me, thanks fellas

 

[DocMT]

Try Cooper Discover ATR. They're not true A/T tires, but they have a pretty aggressive tread to them and they are great in snow and very quiet on the street.

 

[hambone575]

Love my SA's really feeling unstopable

 

[mattb2003]

Certainly additional weight in the rear will help. This is my 3rd T4R and all 3 are squirrely in the snow. It takes a bit of getting used to. Tires and tire pressure are the key. There are very few All-seasons that are worth a damn in snow. Michelin uses a harder-than-average rubber compound which gives them their high mileage rating but sacrifices grip and flexibility in cold weather; the latter of which helps clean the tread of packed snow as the tire rotates off the contact patch. Also, what tire pressure are you running? Normal 30-32 PSI range should be fine but for best traction, airing down a few more PSI will help. Just remember to add air afterwards.

Right now the tires are at 35 PSI. They were installed by a national tire chain and filled to 38-39 PSI when I got them. The max is 35, so I have no idea why they filled them so much. I may try lowing the PSI to see if this helps. Thanks for the suggestion...

 

[kosan]

The alltime 4wheel drive is a joke, you try and turn in snow and ice good luck you are going sideways unless you are driving slow.

Great - so you expect to drive normal speeds in snow/ice with a 4WD. Lame.

 

[RPC]

I have an '08 V8 4WD SR5 with 28K mi on stock Michelin tires and have to turn VSC off to have any fun (lose traction). I've drug Jeeps and passenger cars alike out of snow banks or stuck to their undercarriage several times with my rather stock setup and couldn't be more impressed with my 4Runner's traction control.

I started this thread after our first decent snow (and unless you've been living under a rock you know how much snow Minnesota has gotten this year)- http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/76097-toyota-4runner-4wd-awesome.html

Considering the responses to my thread and the satisfaction of the last 2.5 decades of 4Runner owners, I can rather comfortably say that your experience in snow is highly likely due to operator error.

 

[mattb2003]

I have an '08 V8 4WD SR5 with 28K mi on stock Michelin tires and have to turn VSC off to have any fun (lose traction). I've drug Jeeps and passenger cars alike out of snow banks or stuck to their undercarriage several times with my rather stock setup and couldn't be more impressed with my 4Runner's traction control.

I started this thread after our first decent snow (and unless you've been living under a rock you know how much snow Minnesota has gotten this year)- http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/76097-toyota-4runner-4wd-awesome.html

Considering the responses to my thread and the satisfaction of the last 2.5 decades of 4Runner owners, I can rather comfortably say that your experience in snow is highly likely due to operator error.

The reason we bought this 4Runner is because of how good my '06 was in the snow. In fact, after I got rid of it, I couldn't wait to get another one. However, for some reason, this one just doesn't feel nearly as glued to the road like my other 4Runner. I guess I could be driving this one completely differently, but I seriously doubt it...

 

[klennop]

Unless you're trying do doughnuts in the snow or fishtail in a parking lot or something like that, it's good for the ATRAC/VSC to kick in. If you were to disable it in deep snow, you'd do nothing but spin your tires anyway and you'd still be stuck. At least with the ATRAC engaged, the 4Runner will attemp to find any available traction to keep you moving. It sounds to me like you should learn more about the system instead of talking about how horrible it is in snow.

You are so wrong in this statement. I understand the vehicles systems and know when it is helpful and when it is limiting. When you are going through deep snow and your tire's lugs start filling up with snow, it will turn them into almost slicks. The spinning of the tires will help clean out the lugs which will in turn give you some traction to keep the truck moving. Plus you want as much momentum behind you as possible. I don't want the vehicle to slow down and start searching for traction when I know it will hurt me. If my truck slows down and stops looking for what it thinks is traction, I may not be able to get going again. If you want I will go out in my snow filled Wisconsin woods and show you what I am talking about.

Again, I am not saying the system is junk, it works really well on the "road snow" or in moderate snow but in the DEEP stuff I will take my chances without it from my own experiences. It was trial and error but I have learned what works well in my area and on the different terrain.

 

[klennop]

I too am disappointed with the snow capabilities of my 2005 V sport. The alltime 4wheel drive is a joke, you try and turn in snow and ice good luck you are going sideways unless you are driving slow. You hit deep snow good luck, the stupid electronic bs kicks in and you loose all momentum and the atrac/ VSC whatever it is pulls timing( I believe either that or abs kicks in and you can floor it but it bogs down).

The only way you can run with some confidence is with the center diff lock engaged period if you encounter snow especially the deep stuff. This is my 10th toyota starting from 81, 82, 85, 87, 91, 95, 2001. etc and they all did much better because there was less computer intrusion and more of a real legit 4 wheel drive system. It was a pain in the ass but I I still remember getting out to lock the hubs. You knew your were in 4 wheel drive, you had like 2 high, 2 low 4 high 4 low, etc. So you had options depending on conditions(mud, Ice, snow) not just two( in my case V8 sport which is AWD I only have Center Diff Locked and 4 low). I wish I could turn traction control off, why did toyota not put a button like pretty much every other car on the road( i know they did on newer models).

I am not so much disappointed in the capabilities as you are because I like the truck for the most part. However I ran into some of the same situations as you. Here is my earlier quote in this post:

"I also got in a situation where my back wheels were in deep snow, front tires on the icy road. With everything on I was stuck, the truck wouldn't spin the tires at all and I could put it to the floor without any movement, rpms stayed low because of the computers doing its thing. Again I had to shut everything off and then the truck pulled itself out with ease."

I was just trying to get out of my land which has a moderate embankment up to a road, so the back wheels where in the snowy path and my front wheels where on the road. I shouldn't have to lock up my diff for that. Not my Tahoe, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Ranger, Subaru, etc. have ever had a problem with it. What if just past the ice there was all dry pavement, then stuff would start binding since I would be turning on to the road with the locked diff.

I guess I have just learned what I need to shut off or change with the terrain I am in. However what sucks about shutting things off is, sometimes you don't have time to shut this off and lock this up when **** starts hitting the fan. By that time it is too late and now you are stuck in the deep snow.

If I get some time I will take some video of the truck in some deeper snow.