Really frustrated with snow traction...

[DocMT]

You are so wrong in this statement. I understand the vehicles systems and know when it is helpful and when it is limiting. When you are going through deep snow and your tire's lugs start filling up with snow, it will turn them into almost slicks. The spinning of the tires will help clean out the lugs which will in turn give you some traction to keep the truck moving. Plus you want as much momentum behind you as possible. I don't want the vehicle to slow down and start searching for traction when I know it will hurt me. If my truck slows down and stops looking for what it thinks is traction, I may not be able to get going again. If you want I will go out in my snow filled Wisconsin woods and show you what I am talking about.

Again, I am not saying the system is junk, it works really well on the "road snow" or in moderate snow but in the DEEP stuff I will take my chances without it from my own experiences. It was trial and error but I have learned what works well in my area and on the different terrain.

You don't want to clear the snow out of the tread. That's NOT what gives you traction. You need to read up on what makes tires grip the snow. Here's a hint: snow in the tires tread helps grip snow.

Spinning tires rarely does any good. I'd much rather have ATRAC transferring torque in an attempt to find available traction than to just have the tires all spinning aimlessly. But don't listen to me, I've only lived in the snow belt my entire life.

 

[M1911]

I drove my '03 through 18" of snow once. Of course, I had some serious snow tires on it and the snow was light. I had it in 4WD lo, with the center diff locked. I didn't have any trouble at all.

 

[DocMT]

I drove my '03 through 18" of snow once. Of course, I had some serious snow tires on it and the snow was light. I had it in 4WD lo, with the center diff locked. I didn't have any trouble at all.

I've driven through 18" of snow with my all-seasons in 4HI and not locked without any issues. That's really not a lot of snow for our 4Runners.

 

[Climb14er]

Well, I went up into the Colorado Mountains this week and had my first real chance to test out the 4Runner in the snow. I have to say that I'm more than disappointed to say the least. I don't remember my old 4Runner being this bad (used to have a 2006 v6 and now have an '07). Going straight, everything is fine, but around every turn, I feel like the back end is going to slip out, and a few times, it even did and the traction control had to kick in. I wasn't even driving fast. I had FWD sedans passing me (I was going about 20mph) and they didn't seem to have any trouble. We just picked up our 4Runner at the end of October and it has brand new Michelin Cross Terrains on it. I really don't know what to do, but feel more confident driving my 1994 Corolla in the snow. I read a few threads online about some who've had the same problem, but didn't find a resolution.

Anyway, just needed to vent. I really thought it would perform better than this, but maybe I was expecting a little too much out of it!

I've got a 2007 V8 4 x 4 4Runner Sport and had Michelin Cross Terrains on 'em and replaced the tires as they were wearing too quickly.

Currently have Michelin LTX M&S's, both sets of tires are aired with 35 pounds all around and they're 17 inch.

I've never had any problems with traction, either in deeper snow or one to two inches on the ground. Either with the center diff locked or unlocked.

When it gets a little 'hairy', I lock the center diff as I like the feeling of the 4Runner better in this mode.

I only run Michelins, have done so for forty years and feel very safe and comfortable.

No problems here in Colorado either with the 4Runner or the michelins.

 

[RallyeFan43]

I have an '06 with BF Goodrich All-Terrains and it does really well in the snow. On road or off. There are actually times I try to get the rearend to kick out (when there's nothing around to hit :lookout: ) Admittedly, sometimes I think the traction control is a bit of a hindrance, but overall I'm very happy with this thing's winter weather performance.

 

[Presta24]

BFG,s AT ne size

 

[Presta24]

I have an '06 with BF Goodrich All-Terrains and it does really well in the snow. On road or off. There are actually times I try to get the rearend to kick out (when there's nothing around to hit :lookout: ) Admittedly, sometimes I think the traction control is a bit of a hindrance, but overall I'm very happy with this thing's winter weather performance.

turn ur vsc off, more fun that way

 

[RallyeFan43]

turn ur vsc off, more fun that way

If only it were that simple... I'd love to turn the VSC off to play around in the snow some (SO many empty parking lots around here haha). Unfortunately, there's no way to do that without putting it in 4Hi and locking the center diff. I know some people have done write-ups on how to mod a way to disable it, but I don't know if I'm bold enough to go messing with the electrical/computer systems.

 

[mcflavin]

I drove my '08 home from JFK on Wednesday evening during the worst of a Nor'easter. I had every condition -- sleet, snow on an icy road, powdery snow, deep snow -- for 117 miles.

I never went more than 45 miles an hour, but I never lost traction. I drove past other 4wd trucks that hat spun off and hit the wall, or were buried in the median.

I am completely in love with this truck's ability to handle snow -- not just in this storm but with each snowfall we've had in such a variety of conditions.

My tires are brand new Yoko Geo ATS.

 

[DocMT]

The reason we bought this 4Runner is because of how good my '06 was in the snow...

Considering the fact that the 4wd system didn't change, wouldn't you think that the tires must be the main reason your second 4Runner behaves different in snow than your first 4Runner? Seriously, it's the same vehicle. So maybe you need to go out and buy the same tires you had previously.

The only other thing I can think of is the fact that snow traction varies due to several factors, including the type of snow and the ambient temperature. I've had my 4Runner out in snow one day and it felt unstoppable. And then a new snow storm the next day and traction isn't nearly as good. That's life.

 

[Jerrydog]

The more I drive my 05 v6 sport the more I DO NOT like VSC, for around town on snowy roads its fine but when I want to get into our camp and need the momentum it takes to get thru certain parts, the last thing I want is the brakes applied to slow wheel spin.

So how do I switch it on and off manually, I have no button.

 

[klennop]

You don't want to clear the snow out of the tread. That's NOT what gives you traction. You need to read up on what makes tires grip the snow. Here's a hint: snow in the tires tread helps grip snow.

Spinning tires rarely does any good. I'd much rather have ATRAC transferring torque in an attempt to find available traction than to just have the tires all spinning aimlessly. But don't listen to me, I've only lived in the snow belt my entire life.

I will shoot some video for you since you think that ATRAC helps you in the really deep snow. I would rather keep my momentum vs letting the computer slow me down and look for some traction that isn't there. I guess you are right keeping snow in all the grooves in your tires is good also in deep snow, that is also why snow or AT tires look like slicks, just to give you all that snow traction right? I really think you are getting light snow vs deep snow mixed up here.

I guess what do I know though, I have lived in the snow belt (Northern WI) my whole life also and own 40 acres of woods that I frequent in all year round. So I really never drive in snow.

 

[KB084RUNNER]

I'm in Cleveland...land of lake effect blizzards...the 4runner is very light for an suv. My solution: WEIGHT...keep the gas tank full in bad weather and add some weight to the back and lock the center diff. I live right on the Cuyahoga National Park and the roads are two lane up and down twisties and my 4R handles it fine.

 

[vando45]

Sounds like something may be wrong with your 4WD system, or it's the tires. We have Nokian WR SUV, winter rated all year tire. Not an AT tire, but outstanding in the snow.

 

[DocMT]

I will shoot some video for you since you think that ATRAC helps you in the really deep snow. I would rather keep my momentum vs letting the computer slow me down and look for some traction that isn't there. I guess you are right keeping snow in all the grooves in your tires is good also in deep snow, that is also why snow or AT tires look like slicks, just to give you all that snow traction right? I really think you are getting light snow vs deep snow mixed up here.

I guess what do I know though, I have lived in the snow belt (Northern WI) my whole life also and own 40 acres of woods that I frequent in all year round. So I really never drive in snow.

I'm not saying that the ability to spin your tires isn't an advantage is some snow situations, I'm just saying that ATRAC isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. In most situations, I'd rather have ATRAC shifting power from side to side to find the available tractions. All the tire spinning in the world isn't going to find you traction if it doesn't exist in the first place. I have a buddy with a Dodge Durango that thinks like that, yet he can never get any further up a snow hill than I can with my ATRAC working away.

And I got news for you....snow tires don't look like A/T tires or M/T tires. Snow tires aren't designed to clear snow out of them. And there's good reason for that. Snow tires RETAIN snow in their tread by design. Take a hard look at modern snow tires and you'll see that they don't look like the old school snow tires anymore. This isn't 1970.

 

[corrado]

I'll add my opinions/impressions:

With oem and now silent armor tires I still feel like the T4R has less traction and grip than my 98 audi had on snowy roads. I attribute it to the difference between car and truck. Low center of gravity provides more "bite" when cornering, and less weight comes to a stop much quicker on slick roads. At first I HATED the VSC/ATRAC but after playing around with it, reading up on it, and trying all the different settings, I am slowly understanding its usefulness. I still think I am going to install the bypass switch, but I have been in situations where VSC has kept my truck going in the direction I wanted it to. Thats a big deal, say, if my wife was driving.

Now in 2+ feet of snow I have done things in my T4R that the audi couldn't dream of doing. The only problem I've had was when the snow was up to the doors, I ended up getting trapped on top of all the snow going under the truck. I think the angle of the skid plate eventually packs the snow down under it until you get to a point where the front wheels don't "dig" in, and the backs can't power you over. I assume this would happen in any 4x4 vehicle of the same ground clearance, and that a lift would help alleviate it. I do agree that in those situations ANY amount of electrical intervention is too much as wheelspin and momentum are paramount in not getting stuck or "hung up" on snow.

My $0.02

 

[Ross]

You are so wrong in this statement. I understand the vehicles systems and know when it is helpful and when it is limiting. When you are going through deep snow and your tire's lugs start filling up with snow, it will turn them into almost slicks. The spinning of the tires will help clean out the lugs which will in turn give you some traction to keep the truck moving. Plus you want as much momentum behind you as possible. I don't want the vehicle to slow down and start searching for traction when I know it will hurt me. If my truck slows down and stops looking for what it thinks is traction, I may not be able to get going again. If you want I will go out in my snow filled Wisconsin woods and show you what I am talking about.

Again, I am not saying the system is junk, it works really well on the "road snow" or in moderate snow but in the DEEP stuff I will take my chances without it from my own experiences. It was trial and error but I have learned what works well in my area and on the different terrain.

I have an 04 V6 and in 4 hi it is about impossible to spin the times for this reason, having the center locked helps a little.

For me this makes my 4Runner a pretty crappy choice for off roading. Tire spin is necessary for cleaning out lugs when you are on muddy trail too. The traction control on the my 4Runners works too good. Often you can gain traction pretty quickly after a little tire spin.

 

[2005v8sport]

Great - so you expect to drive normal speeds in snow/ice with a 4WD. Lame.

Dude did you read the part about The X5 was completely stable going around a turn when the at the same turn the 4runner back end would kick out? Is that really lame??? I know the characteristics of a cars handling change dramatically in snow and ice, so I realize I can't drive normal speeds. I also don't want to have to come to a complete stop and drive 5 mph to make a turn that most other Alltime 4x4 vehicles I have driven can do with ease going much quicker.
I will attribute the weight of the vehicle as probably the main culprit as maybe the X5 is way Heavier(although my V8 Sport is no light weight) and the X5 having snow and ice tires.

 

[2005v8sport]

The more I drive my 05 v6 sport the more I DO NOT like VSC, for around town on snowy roads its fine but when I want to get into our camp and need the momentum it takes to get thru certain parts, the last thing I want is the brakes applied to slow wheel spin.

So how do I switch it on and off manually, I have no button.

Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only one that Wished I could turn it off in my 05. I believe there is a mod to do that on the forum somewhere, I am am going do a search now. You can better believe thats my next mod.

 

[2005v8sport]

I will shoot some video for you since you think that ATRAC helps you in the really deep snow. I would rather keep my momentum vs letting the computer slow me down and look for some traction that isn't there. I guess you are right keeping snow in all the grooves in your tires is good also in deep snow, that is also why snow or AT tires look like slicks, just to give you all that snow traction right? I really think you are getting light snow vs deep snow mixed up here.

I guess what do I know though, I have lived in the snow belt (Northern WI) my whole life also and own 40 acres of woods that I frequent in all year round. So I really never drive in snow.

LOL, I guess I don't know much either(only owned 10 Toyotas and have driven 4x4's since age 16 and off roaded to many times to count) So don't feel bad. Snow on roads and around town in mall parking lots is completely different than deep snow in the back country. I think some people on here either r relaying their experience driving around town or they may not have experience with other 4x4 vehicles. Yes, if you are coming from a Prius or Honda CRV, you will blown away by the difference in the 4runner and think its incredible. IF you have come from a legit 4x4 background you will realize that all these electronic intrusions actually hinder the trucks ability sometimes DEPENDING ON THE CONDITIONS YOU ARE IN.

I Agree is does suck to be running in 4hi and encounter a hairy situation that requires momentum. You have to stop put the truck in neutral and lock the diff. By that time you may already be screwed. So you have to run with diff locked whole time, but then you hit dry pavement or solid ground so it binds, WTF. I now realize the key is just leave diff locked and go from there.

I also agree with the posters about Wanting to keep the tires spinning to clean out the lugs. I think the may work only in mud though, I think sand is just like snow you want to float on top of it. Spinning may just dig you deeper into it. Airing the tires down is every critical as well as the right tires. So basically purchase tires according to your surroundings and what environment you will be driving your truck in.

I will concede to Docmt that Atrac mayt be a good thing(i am going to research it more like he suggested), as I remember in the olden days we would apply the parking brake which would in essence shift power to the wheel with traction instead of the spinning one. But that was also in a situation where we were already stuck and trying to do whatever we could to become unstuck. But Whatever is pulling timing Atrac or VSC when I need my momentum going is a hindrance the deep stuff.