Really frustrated with snow traction...
- Thread starter mattb2003
- Start date
2005v8sport
New member
Yes, when you lock center diff it turns of the VSC.
Here is the link for the mod to install a switch to dissable VSC on 2003-2007 4runners without running the locked center differential
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/performance-zone-tires-wheels-exhaust-superchargers-more/41357-vsc-off-atrac-mod-complete.html
Originally came from here
VSC Disable on Pre 2008 4Runners - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
Here is the link for the mod to install a switch to dissable VSC on 2003-2007 4runners without running the locked center differential
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/performance-zone-tires-wheels-exhaust-superchargers-more/41357-vsc-off-atrac-mod-complete.html
Originally came from here
VSC Disable on Pre 2008 4Runners - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
I have had my 04 4Runners for a couple of weeks and I am not liking the this type of traction control, or at least not having the option to tun it off. These electronics work well and do what they are designed to do HOWEVER those that designed the system suffer from severe tunnel vision.
This type of traction control may be great for less than ideal road conditions, even then there are situation you may be better off without it. For actual off roading this system can be a hindrance.
This type of traction control may be great for less than ideal road conditions, even then there are situation you may be better off without it. For actual off roading this system can be a hindrance.
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klennop
New member
Doc I am not going to argue with you anymore about this. I think we are both right in different situations so this would never end. Maybe you need to get off the beaten path some time and you will understand what I am talking about.
Also as far as tires, snow tires do look more like a AT tire with softer compounds and a lot more siping vs a conventional highway tire. At the same time they don't look like M/T either which I never said they did.
corrado
New member
couple things: most conventional 4x4's don't have the option to "unlock" the center diff so you can't really complain about binding on the 4R compared to traditional 4x4's where if you don't want binding, you are in RWD.
Also, do you really need to be in Neutral to lock the center diff? I didn't think so...
You don't have to. You can lock and unlock the center diff while on the move, in D. Sometimes if you stop in D, it won't lock, and shifting to N might help.
I've been doing so much offroad driving in deep snow with my 4Runner that it's not even funny. Have you ever heard of the snow in Syracuse NY? It's in the top 3 snowfall areas in all of the U.S.
Here's a Blizzak snow tire and a typical A/T tire. Look nothing alike to me other than they're both round and black.
Attachments
Yes, VSC will turn off with the center diff lock.
No, it still won't act like a traditional 4x4 because ATRAC is still active.
2005v8sport
New member
Corrado, the "binding" I am referring to is actually when the Center diff is locked and you are on pavement. Go try that out on your truck and tell me thats normal. I have found that if I am stopped(usually because VSC/atrac kicks in and am in deep mud or snow)that I need to be in neutral otherwise the thing beeps and the light flashes when I try and lock the CDL.
Most conventional 4x4's have a transfer case not a center differential with option to lock or unlock. So theres no point to your statement. Traditional 4x4s have a single transfer case that spins the front and rear driveshaft then power is distributed through the ring and pinion gears to the right of left side Ahh forget, getting a headache trying to describe legit 4x4 systems to people that don;t have that background.
please read the thread above about disabling the VSC mod and will find true offroaders do not like that capability, heck some don't even like the Atrac.
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2005v8sport
New member
Matt,
This is my last post on the subject as its frustrating trying get some people on here to understand the situation you are describing and the situation I am desribing. Here are some excerpts from the link I posted about the dissabling the VSC called the VSC mod. I am not posting this to say you need to do this mod, just a reference and a good explanation of why your 4 runner is acting this way.
QUOTE FROM VSC MOD THREAD:
"Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Runner8
so i have read the whole thread and now understand that it allows for fun and donuts and such but how does it exactly help in off road situations? thanks and sorry if i somehow missed it... i read every post
This mod for the pre-08 4wd's is probably the most helpful in snow driving. It allows you pull out in traffic with the assurance that the VSC won't cut the engine power when you need it most. The only other way to do it is to lock the center diff. Most of the time roads tend be mostly clear with patchy slick stuff so you don't want the center diff locked or it'll bind. Above 20-25mph simply flick the switch to normal mode and enjoy the protection provided by VSC.
Off-roading it's nice because it handles better, If you have anything better than super-slick conditions the center-diff being open just feels better, steers better etc. Without the mod the VSC would cut engine power at the slightest little slip. Off-road you could just leave the center diff locked and it works great, this just feels a little better IMHO.
MATT READ THIS, SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WERE EXPERIENCING.
it seems the vast majority of folks are wanting/doing this mod for snow driving: pulling out into a slippery intersection (i.e. some wheel spin) kills the throttle and leaves you vulnerable to oncoming traffic. i experienced this earlier in the week, and although there was no oncoming traffic, it was very disheartening. i'd like to get this done before the real weather hits, plus i'll be driving to CO for a month this feb. the off-road benefits are that you dont have to lock the diff to kill the vsc, which as i type this, equates just as well to on-road driving where you will be going around corners (not great w/ diff locked).
corrado
New member
Thats normal.
Respectfully, I know plenty about 4x4 systems and I have the background to prove it. It looks like you actually need to educate yourself on the 4R system. We DO HAVE a transfer case (torsen diff inside): when the Cdiff is locked it acts EXACTLY like "conventional 4x4's". That means it spins the front and rear shafts at the exact same speed. Yes, this causes binding when there is traction. Yes, I have experienced this in my truck (so no need to tell me to go do it now). However, what I said was that this also happens to conventional 4x4's when driving in 4WD on dry pavement; so there's nothing to complain about. HOWEVER, conventional 4x4's don't have the option to run in AWD; where you have power to all 4 wheels and NO BINDING.
I also said myself that I agree that the electronic intervention can hinder you in deep snow/mud, I've read plenty on the subject so there's nothing to argue about there. I will be doing the VSC bypass switch on the next weekend that I don't drive to northen VT to ski (which i do almost every weekend = experience in DEEP snow).
and FYI, looks like i was correct about not needing to be in Neutral to lock the Cdiff. Someone else said you can unplug the TRAC computer to disable all electronics and if you do that combined with the CDL, you will have a 4x4 exactly like they made em in the 80's....
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I don't think the cargo area of the 4Runner is rated to handle 300#'s.
We still have a conventional transfer case. The only difference is that we also have a center differential. With a conventional case, it locks the front and rear driveshafts together. With ours, the front and rear driveshafts are only locked together when the center differential is locked. If it's not locked, then we still have 4wd, but more in an AWD sense because we have a Torsen center differential. In my opinion, it's the best of both worlds. But you have to realize that once we lock our center diff, the 4wd system acts just like an traditional transfer case.
Yup, I've tried that. You'll have no electronic intervention at all. All it really does is let you spin like crazy though. And the bad part is that since the ATRAC is disabled, you'll get only one front wheel and one rear wheel spinning because we have open differentials in the front and rear. And that's why it's better to keep ATRAC enabled in 99% of the time.
Here's what they aren't telling you:
If you were in such a situation where the engine throttled back because the wheels were spinning as you pulled into a slippery intersection, I can see why that could be scary because you wouldn't be able to accelerate out of the way of traffic. Now imagine what would happen if you were to disable all the electronic aids. You'd pull into the intersection and just spin your tires. And you still wouldn't be able to accelerate out of the way of traffic. You end up with the same net result. Either way, you're going nowhere fast.
Just as your spinning tires would eventually find traction if your 4Runner continued to move forward, the same is true with ATRAC enabled. Some people here seem to think that ATRAC completely shuts down the vehicle. It does not. It simply brakes the spinning wheels to transfer more torque to the wheels that have better/more traction. ATRAC is out of the equation as soon as it's no longer needed.
Years ago, before electronic aids, 4x4's had either lockers or open diffs. If they had lockers, they were animals. If they had open diffs, they were lame.
Today we have electronics (and still have lockers sometimes, notice our locking center diff and some rear locking diffs) that make our 4wd systems almost as good as the old school locked 4wd systems. And certainly MUCH better than old school 4wd systems with open diffs.
KB084RUNNER
New member
You should probably just trade it in on an SUV that works for you. If I were that disappointed, I would trade it.
