Rear wheel bearing BS! Input appreciated

[kolelt]

Yes.
What part number is your bearing? Should be 90363-40068 right?
As long as the bearing is pressed all the way into the bearing pocket/housing and the retainer is pressed snugly against the inner race of the bearing, it should be done right. How are you setting everything up in the press? Do you have a photo?

Bearing # 903634002077. Setting everything up just like Tim. My issue is, I’m experiencing very slight movement once bolted up to the housing. And that rattle noise. Although I have not hooked up the ebrake yet so the rattle noise could be the brakes. But the little movement is killing me. I feel like there should be 0 play once it’s bolted in. Almost sounds like a loose rim.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...nner-tie-rods-ball-joints-wheel-bearings.html

 

[Nate_GB]

Bearing # 903634002077. Setting everything up just like Tim. My issue is, I’m experiencing very slight movement once bolted up to the housing. And that rattle noise. Although I have not hooked up the ebrake yet so the rattle noise could be the brakes. But the little movement is killing me. I feel like there should be 0 play once it’s bolted in. Almost sounds like a loose rim.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...nner-tie-rods-ball-joints-wheel-bearings.html

FSM specifies the amount of lateral play (inward and outward movement of the axle shaft as measured at the flange of the axle shaft with a dial indicator) that is allowable with the axle assembly installed in the axle housing. It states .7 mm or .027" is allowable.

 

[mtbtim]

If the bearing it self moves up and down in the bearing housing. Shouldn’t the first retainer push the bearing back? All the way into the bearing housing ?

No, all the outer retainer does is keep the bearing from having the ability of sliding down the axle shaft. It's a place holder and the c-clip above outer retainer is insurance that the axle can't go anywhere unless the bearing falls apart, which I've personally seen.

The axle with the bearing, outer retainer and c-clip can still slide in and out because there's nothing holding the bearing in place in the bearing case. It's not a press fit as you know. But, once the axle shaft is slid into the 3rd member and the axle is bolted to the housing, the axle can't move in and out anymore. The end of the axle shaft bottoms out in the 3rd member preventing any in and out movement of the bearing in the bearing case. The axle can't move more inboard because of where the axle shaft terminates in the 3rd member. And the axle can't move outward because of the axle bolted to the housing.

I wish I could describe this better but this is the best i can do. Somebody who's done work tearing apart 3rd members can hopefully better describe how the end of the axle shafts bottom out and can't slide more inboard.

 

[kolelt]

No, all the outer retainer does is keep the bearing from having the ability of sliding down the axle shaft. It's a place holder and the c-clip above outer retainer is insurance that the axle can't go anywhere unless the bearing falls apart, which I've personally seen.

The axle with the bearing, outer retainer and c-clip can still slide in and out because there's nothing holding the bearing in place in the bearing case. It's not a press fit as you know. But, once the axle shaft is slid into the 3rd member and the axle is bolted to the housing, the axle can't move in and out anymore. The end of the axle shaft bottoms out in the 3rd member preventing any in and out movement of the bearing in the bearing case. The axle can't move more inboard because of where the axle shaft terminates in the 3rd member. And the axle can't move outward because of the axle bolted to the housing.

I wish I could describe this better but this is the best i can do. Somebody who's done work tearing apart 3rd members can hopefully better describe how the end of the axle shafts bottom out and can't slide more inboard.

I completely understand. I have torn apart the 3rd member and the whole 9 yards. I guess as long as the c-clip grove is exposed, that indicates proper seating. Have you seen my photo? On page 1, last post.

 

[kolelt]

Tim, in your video the bearing basically falls right in the bearing cup. Once everything was pressed on. Did you notice that bearing could move cup and down inside the bearing cup? Even though everything was pressed on.

 

[mtbtim]

I completely understand. I have torn apart the 3rd member and the whole 9 yards. I guess as long as the c-clip grove is exposed, that indicates proper seating. Have you seen my photo? On page 1, last post.

I just looked at the photo. It looks right. Like I said before, as long as you experienced the press loading up with no further movement, any more force isn't going to do anything. The amount of force required to press the axle through the bearing is not that much. The force required is always steady and even, so once you feel significant resistance, you know you're done. The fact that the c-clip fits into the axle groove is secondary confirmation you did the press work correctly.

I don't know what's causing that vibration you're experiencing but I have a feeling it's the brakes. Once you get the e-brake hooked up and applied, I think the vibration rattle is going to disappear.

Now, as for detectable up and down movement of the bearing in the case, I haven't experienced that, but then again, I was looking for it either. Even though the bearing can fall into the case when it's perfectly lined up, I still don't think it has enough space to cause a noticeable play. The bearing isn't a press fit in the case, but it's still a snug fit. As you've seen, the brand new OEM replacement bearings have a little play to them and maybe that's what you are detecting.

I hope this helps.

 

[Wikano]

Is it possible to have slop where the axel meets the hub/lug studs?

 

[kolelt]

Awesome info from everyone. Thank you Tim. Very helpful. Once I hook up the ebrake I’ll report back with the results.

 

[nevada]

No, all the outer retainer does is keep the bearing from having the ability of sliding down the axle shaft. It's a place holder and the c-clip above outer retainer is insurance that the axle can't go anywhere unless the bearing falls apart, which I've personally seen.

The axle with the bearing, outer retainer and c-clip can still slide in and out because there's nothing holding the bearing in place in the bearing case. It's not a press fit as you know. But, once the axle shaft is slid into the 3rd member and the axle is bolted to the housing, the axle can't move in and out anymore. The end of the axle shaft bottoms out in the 3rd member preventing any in and out movement of the bearing in the bearing case. The axle can't move more inboard because of where the axle shaft terminates in the 3rd member. And the axle can't move outward because of the axle bolted to the housing.

I wish I could describe this better but this is the best i can do. Somebody who's done work tearing apart 3rd members can hopefully better describe how the end of the axle shafts bottom out and can't slide more inboard.

its not the axle shaft bottoming out that stops it from going in. it cant go OUT, because of the backing plate, it cant go IN because of the press fit/retainer/clip.

C-clip style rear ends(not toyota) do allow the axles to bump up against the center pin, this just keeps them from sliding in far enough to release the C-clip. the center pin acts as a component in axle location, as well as retention, because they don't use a pressed on bearing.




I wonder if maybe just one of his bearings is bad? I have experienced this before on several different vehicles. new bearings, properly pressed and installed, yet still with a little movement.


is there any way we can get a video of the movement you're getting? not the banging vibrations/rattling thing, but any actual movement on the axle.

 

[mtbtim]

its not the axle shaft bottoming out that stops it from going in. it cant go OUT, because of the backing plate, it cant go IN because of the press fit/retainer/clip.

C-clip style rear ends(not toyota) do allow the axles to bump up against the center pin, this just keeps them from sliding in far enough to release the C-clip. the center pin acts as a component in axle location, as well as retention, because they don't use a pressed on bearing.




I wonder if maybe just one of his bearings is bad? I have experienced this before on several different vehicles. new bearings, properly pressed and installed, yet still with a little movement.


is there any way we can get a video of the movement you're getting? not the banging vibrations/rattling thing, but any actual movement on the axle.

Sorry but I don't agree with you. The outer retainer and c-clip just keep the bearing in place on the axle. The axle shaft can float in and out of that bearing case. It's a fact and not just my opinion. Only when the axle shaft is inserted into the 3rd member and it's bolted to the axle housing does the ability of the assembly to slide back and forth in the bearing case stop. The axle shaft has to be terminating against something in the 3rd member to stop movement inboard. And, like you said, the axle bolted to the axle housing stop the outboard movement.

 

[nevada]

Sorry but I don't agree with you. The outer retainer and c-clip just keep the bearing in place on the axle. The axle shaft can float in and out of that bearing case. It's a fact and not just my opinion. Only when the axle shaft is inserted into the 3rd member and it's bolted to the axle housing does the ability of the assembly to slide back and forth in the bearing case stop. The axle shaft has to be terminating against something in the 3rd member to stop movement inboard. And, like you said, the axle bolted to the axle housing stop the outboard movement.

bolt one into a housing without a 3rd member and try to move the axle.

 

[mtbtim]

bolt one into a housing without a 3rd member and try to move the axle.

That probably wont happen. I thought about this and it confused me when I experienced the same thing as the OP when I did this job for the first time. How is the axle able to stay put when the assembly can freely move in and out of the bearing case? With the bearing pressed onto the axle and the outer retainer and c-clip holding the bearing in place, the axle bolted to the housing prevents outboard movement because the bearing bottoms out in the bearing case. But, for inboard movement, nothing about the retainer and c-clip will stop the whole axle assembly to slide inboard unless something the axle shaft is terminating against inside the 3rd member is preventing that movement. When my buddy [MENTION=144752]MarkamisPrime[/MENTION] explained that the shaft terminates in the 3rd member preventing inboard movement, it finally made sense to me.

 

[nevada]

That probably wont happen. I thought about this and it confused me when I experienced the same thing as the OP when I did this job for the first time. How is the axle able to stay put when the assembly can freely move in and out of the bearing case? With the bearing pressed onto the axle and the outer retainer and c-clip holding the bearing in place, the axle bolted to the housing prevents outboard movement because the bearing bottoms out in the bearing case. But, for inboard movement, nothing about the retainer and c-clip will stop the whole axle assembly to slide inboard unless something the axle shaft is terminating against inside the 3rd member is preventing that movement. When my buddy @MarkamisPrime explained that the shaft terminates in the 3rd member preventing inboard movement, it finally made sense to me.

ive got an empty housing and some axles. I also have a spooled differential, that does NOT have a center pin for the axle to locate against.
I can bolt it in place and verify.
now, whether I actually remember to do this or not is a different story.

people have used early 80's axles in a late 80s housing.
I don't know if you're aware of the differences, but 86+ housings are 3" wider, thus they have 1.5" longer axles. if you bolt the 1.5" shorter axles(pre 86) into the wider(86+) housing, it just barely engages the side gears. about 1/8"-3/16", just enough to grab, but comes nowhere close to touching the center pin.
this has been done, and the vehicle drives normally. if what you are saying was true, the tire/axle would be moving in and out, but they don't.
because the axle is located via the pressed on bearing arrangement at the axle housing ends.

 

[mtbtim]

ive got an empty housing and some axles. I also have a spooled differential, that does NOT have a center pin for the axle to locate against.
I can bolt it in place and verify.
now, whether I actually remember to do this or not is a different story.

people have used early 80's axles in a late 80s housing.
I don't know if you're aware of the differences, but 86+ housings are 3" wider, thus they have 1.5" longer axles. if you bolt the 1.5" shorter axles(pre 86) into the wider(86+) housing, it just barely engages the side gears. about 1/8"-3/16", just enough to grab, but comes nowhere close to touching the center pin.
this has been done, and the vehicle drives normally. if what you are saying was true, the tire/axle would be moving in and out, but they don't.
because the axle is located via the pressed on bearing arrangement at the axle housing ends.

I don't know how much better I can explain my theory on this. I know without a doubt the axle bearing can slide freely in and out of the bearing case. The outer retainer and bearing do stop outboard movement but there's got to be something stopping inboard movement. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. I've done around 9 axle bearing/seal jobs and have a very good understanding of these axles. What I don't know from personal experience is how the axle can't move inboard. Like I said, because I knew how easy the assembly could slide in and out of the bearing case I was totally confused why the axle shaft couldn't move inboard. I'm basing my belief from what my buddy Mark told me which makes sense.

 

[kolelt]

its not the axle shaft bottoming out that stops it from going in. it cant go OUT, because of the backing plate, it cant go IN because of the press fit/retainer/clip.

C-clip style rear ends(not toyota) do allow the axles to bump up against the center pin, this just keeps them from sliding in far enough to release the C-clip. the center pin acts as a component in axle location, as well as retention, because they don't use a pressed on bearing.




I wonder if maybe just one of his bearings is bad? I have experienced this before on several different vehicles. new bearings, properly pressed and installed, yet still with a little movement.


is there any way we can get a video of the movement you're getting? not the banging vibrations/rattling thing, but any actual movement on the axle.

Yeah I’ll make a video.

 

[Kanoe]

. What I don't know from personal experience is how the axle can't move inboard. Like I said, because I knew how easy the assembly could slide in and out of the bearing case I was totally confused why the axle shaft couldn't move inboard. I'm basing my belief from what my buddy Mark told me which makes sense.

Hey guys,

Jumping in here, haven't read the whole thread.

The axle bearing is held tightly in place between the outer bearing cup (which prevents outboard movement) and the raised lip on the axle housing that fits precisely inside the bearing cup when you bolt it on (this prevents the inboard movement). I haven't measured to be sure but I expect the bearings outer race is pretty tightly pinched in there once you bolt the cup and backing plate into position. So the axle bearing prevents the movement in BOTH directions.

Thats my hypothesis. Good luck.

 

[mtbtim]

Hey guys,

Jumping in here, haven't read the whole thread.

The axle bearing is held tightly in place between the outer bearing cup (which prevents outboard movement) and the raised lip on the axle housing that fits precisely inside the bearing cup when you bolt it on (this prevents the inboard movement). I haven't measured to be sure but I expect the bearings outer race is pretty tightly pinched in there once you bolt the cup and backing plate into position. So the axle bearing prevents the movement in BOTH directions.

Thats my hypothesis. Good luck.

You sir are a F*cking Genius! That's it! The raised lip of the axle housing that fits into the bearing cup contacts the bearing outer race and hold it in place. I'm not gay but I love you. Like I said, I'm not the least bit a mechanical engineer and the fact I couldn't figure that out for myself proves it.

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[nevada]

because the axle is located via the pressed on bearing arrangement at the axle housing ends.

yeaah. that's what I said...

 

[mtbtim]

yeaah. that's what I said...

Well, the way [MENTION=102449]Kanoe[/MENTION] said it made immediate sense to me. If you meant the same thing earlier, then sure, you were right all along. It sometimes makes all the difference in the world how somebody can clearly and concisely describe what they're trying to impart to the person they're talking to. [MENTION=102449]Kanoe[/MENTION] was able to do that perfectly. I'm just glad I learned this because my original understanding was incorrect.

 

[kolelt]

Ok guys, here is a video of the driver side wheel. I fallowed Tims video. And have done this job before. anyways, everything is OEM. C-clip grove exposed. Everything bolted besides the ebrake. Notice the play...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN9283BEvyA&feature=youtu.be

This video, is the passenger side. This side got taken apart for 2nd time. The abs ring and the seal retainer removed. Along with the c-clip. Then the retainer that touches the bearing got pressed with more force. The 20 ton jack did "NOT" get maxed out but significant force was used. Although the retainer did not look like it moved any further then it was from the first time. However, the play that the driver side has. Seems to have gone. Although I don't know if its due to more force on the retainer or what, because it really did not move anywhere...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNzNuxgBKzc&feature=youtu.be

so im not sure wtf is going on, if thats normal or what....... all i know is the first retainer is below the c-clip grove.