Just sold my 2017 Tundra Limited for a 2020 4Runner OR. Got a great deal. Best decision I’ve ever made. I miss the neck snapping power of the Tundra but everything else is better. Especially being nearly three feet shorter in an overly crowded city. Adaptive cruise control and Apple CarPlay is icing on the cake.
Regrets - My Story
- Thread starter Joe-Runner
- Start date
Banzai
New member
Don't go into so much detail - it makes your post hard to read :noidea:
MAST4R
New member
This is such a tough one in that it all depends on personal finances, etc.
I will say this. I have offroaded 6-cylinder Subarus as much as anyone. H4s are limited at elevation (they really struggle on the Ouray/Silverton passes without low range) but on the whole they will be fine for plenty of roads and trails in NV and UT. However, watch out for overheating the transmission, especially the CVT on sustained long climbs especially at speed (like Smoky Mountain road from Lake Powell).
I think that you will quickly see that the stock Outback is in fact far superior to a stock 4Runner on dirt roads. It is not even a competition. You will want whichever AT tire you like. By contrast, the 4R needs a performance suspension to feel right on a dirt road as mine finally does. Of course, the 4R takes over in 4x4 terrain. No competition from a Subaru here. Very mild trails are a wash.
On the 4R side, consider how relatively cheap 2019s are. I would wait to see if rates go down a bit in a month. Maybe also wait the very last days of 2019, there will be dealers desperate to move one more vehicle come Dec 30-31 even at unusual discounts.
If you are going to plan for the long haul, the 4Runner should be around for like 20 years. I do expect that from our H6 5 EAT Tribeca (a 2008) and I did get rid of a 19 yo 4 EAT H4 because I got tired of it but I am not sure I would expect such longevity from an H4 CVT model.
I will say this. I have offroaded 6-cylinder Subarus as much as anyone. H4s are limited at elevation (they really struggle on the Ouray/Silverton passes without low range) but on the whole they will be fine for plenty of roads and trails in NV and UT. However, watch out for overheating the transmission, especially the CVT on sustained long climbs especially at speed (like Smoky Mountain road from Lake Powell).
I think that you will quickly see that the stock Outback is in fact far superior to a stock 4Runner on dirt roads. It is not even a competition. You will want whichever AT tire you like. By contrast, the 4R needs a performance suspension to feel right on a dirt road as mine finally does. Of course, the 4R takes over in 4x4 terrain. No competition from a Subaru here. Very mild trails are a wash.
On the 4R side, consider how relatively cheap 2019s are. I would wait to see if rates go down a bit in a month. Maybe also wait the very last days of 2019, there will be dealers desperate to move one more vehicle come Dec 30-31 even at unusual discounts.
If you are going to plan for the long haul, the 4Runner should be around for like 20 years. I do expect that from our H6 5 EAT Tribeca (a 2008) and I did get rid of a 19 yo 4 EAT H4 because I got tired of it but I am not sure I would expect such longevity from an H4 CVT model.
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Steamfitter
New member
I almost did the same thing. I have a '13 T4R, and was very tempted at one point to trade it in for a Tundra Platinum... Why? Looks, mostly. So basically my own vanity. But like you have seen first hand, they are very different beasts, and I think the T4R will be the better all-around vehicle (unless you do insane amounts of towing, live on a farm, stuff like that).
Being financially prudent is a sign of wisdom. Maybe like was said earlier, keep putting little bits of money aside and think long and hard before your next purchase. Delayed gratification is a sign of intelligence (so is owning a T4R, in my opinion lol...). Work towards your wants, but don't put yourself in any financial jeopardy because you have a regret.
Just before I saw your thread I was just looking at the 2020 TRD pro T4R in army green... So nice! But, I think I should just be happy with my '13 for now. Switching vehicles on emotional whims is a great way to go broke, I have watched enough guys do it.
Being financially prudent is a sign of wisdom. Maybe like was said earlier, keep putting little bits of money aside and think long and hard before your next purchase. Delayed gratification is a sign of intelligence (so is owning a T4R, in my opinion lol...). Work towards your wants, but don't put yourself in any financial jeopardy because you have a regret.
Just before I saw your thread I was just looking at the 2020 TRD pro T4R in army green... So nice! But, I think I should just be happy with my '13 for now. Switching vehicles on emotional whims is a great way to go broke, I have watched enough guys do it.
hikenbike
New member
Yup but I preferred the power delivery of the tried and true 6 cyl (although the new turbo already exists in the Ascent), the 17% cost savings off MSRP, and the look of the front of the '19 over the '20.
'20's also have a somewhat stiffer suspension and a huge screen that manages ALL internal controls. I'm a little old-school and prefer some traditional buttons. OB's are really nice either way.
Joe-Runner
New member
After a whole lot of consideration I think the extra price for the 2020 is worth it. The infotainment upgrade and the adaptive cruise control/auto braking is a game changer for the 4Runner. I've got used to the adaptive cruise in other vehicles now so it'd be hard to go without!
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Joe-Runner
New member
Yeah, the Tundra is a freaking land yatch! I love the power as well but much prefer the size of the 4Runner [emoji41] and yeah, the addition of adaptive cruise control, Auto braking, and the massive infotainment system upgrades really make me want the 2020 ORP!
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Joe-Runner
New member
So, while I enjoyed our Subaru Outback she just doesn't have the capabilities I need! My daily drive to work takes me from Vegas across the open desert where I continually stare off at dirt roads leading to seemingly nowhere, wondering what it would be like to go and explore them.
I really never shut up about it, or how much I miss my 4Runner, so my wife started doing some searching for me (she misses the 4Runner a bit too) after a lot of searching and patience we found the one I wanted! Just purchased her on Monday!
She's a 2013 Trail Edition with all the options (available that year anyway). She has been in Vegas since 2013 when she was purchased brand new by the woman I just purchased it from. The owner was a girly girl (no offense ladies) who only ever took it off road twice on some dirt roads. This thing has been a city queen driven almost entirely on the highways around Vegas and some in the city; she lives in the Burbs. The cleanest Carfax I've ever seen. She had it to the dealership for every single oil change and even the 60,000 mile major service - right at 90K now. Oh, and it has never towed a thing.
She has a 3in Toytec lift which was done professionally at 808 Customs in Henderson as well as aftermarket wheels and NFab steps sides also purchased and installed at the same place. Currently has Nitto Ridge Grappler load range e outfitted. These things are heavy and loud and are killing gas mileage - Little bit overkill but hey man they look mean and they will be great off road. The underside is immaculate and everything works perfect. No fluid leaks, no strange noises, no alignment issues, drives straight as an arrow. Pretty Blown Away on this find.
Oh, and the color. It's a vinyl wrap that was done professionally here in town as well. Was put on two years ago and is still looking great. Couple small scrapes here and there where you can see the Salsa Red color underneath but nothing terrible. Green is my favorite color so I think I'll leave it for a bit, but I'm actually excited to see the red color underneath eventually! It's more of a nice mellow maroon.
We had a 2016 Subaru Outback with 80,000 on it which after selling almost paid off the $20,000 price tag on this vehicle. Close enough; this vehicle suits my wants and needs right now and so far I'm very happy with it. Plan to do pretty basic mods mostly for creature Comfort. She's already outfitted with all the off road things I need. Have my eye on the T9 head unit, and I would really like full-length roof rack. We have a roof-top tent to put on there and plan to have some fun adventures around the Mojave Desert
For now I'm doing all the small maintenance items that she missed. Cabin air filter, K&N Engine air filter, lubing up Windows and sunroof, headlight restore kit, going to rotate the tires and probably lube up the calipers this weekend. Installed dash cam and trickle charger last night. Oh, and I saved all the LED bulbs for my 2017 and installed all those. Almost every socket on the vehicle! I'm going to watch for wear and potentially replace the upper control arms as I believe they are stock. No sign of excessive wear at the moment but these are pretty new tires.
Two more random parting thoughts: This thing has KDSS! I always thought it was just a gimmick but oh my gosh does it make a huge difference on and off road! And the pull-out tray in the cargo area - another thing I thought was just a gimmick but I've already used it multiple times as a workbench in my garage and driveway. The lift also helps as it puts it right at standard kitchen counter height :thumb:
My kid wants to name her cherry.... not sure how I feel about that but I think we'll go with it. There is such thing as a green maraschino cherry, right? Happy to be back in a 4Runner and back on the forums again.
I really never shut up about it, or how much I miss my 4Runner, so my wife started doing some searching for me (she misses the 4Runner a bit too) after a lot of searching and patience we found the one I wanted! Just purchased her on Monday!
She's a 2013 Trail Edition with all the options (available that year anyway). She has been in Vegas since 2013 when she was purchased brand new by the woman I just purchased it from. The owner was a girly girl (no offense ladies) who only ever took it off road twice on some dirt roads. This thing has been a city queen driven almost entirely on the highways around Vegas and some in the city; she lives in the Burbs. The cleanest Carfax I've ever seen. She had it to the dealership for every single oil change and even the 60,000 mile major service - right at 90K now. Oh, and it has never towed a thing.
She has a 3in Toytec lift which was done professionally at 808 Customs in Henderson as well as aftermarket wheels and NFab steps sides also purchased and installed at the same place. Currently has Nitto Ridge Grappler load range e outfitted. These things are heavy and loud and are killing gas mileage - Little bit overkill but hey man they look mean and they will be great off road. The underside is immaculate and everything works perfect. No fluid leaks, no strange noises, no alignment issues, drives straight as an arrow. Pretty Blown Away on this find.
Oh, and the color. It's a vinyl wrap that was done professionally here in town as well. Was put on two years ago and is still looking great. Couple small scrapes here and there where you can see the Salsa Red color underneath but nothing terrible. Green is my favorite color so I think I'll leave it for a bit, but I'm actually excited to see the red color underneath eventually! It's more of a nice mellow maroon.
We had a 2016 Subaru Outback with 80,000 on it which after selling almost paid off the $20,000 price tag on this vehicle. Close enough; this vehicle suits my wants and needs right now and so far I'm very happy with it. Plan to do pretty basic mods mostly for creature Comfort. She's already outfitted with all the off road things I need. Have my eye on the T9 head unit, and I would really like full-length roof rack. We have a roof-top tent to put on there and plan to have some fun adventures around the Mojave Desert
For now I'm doing all the small maintenance items that she missed. Cabin air filter, K&N Engine air filter, lubing up Windows and sunroof, headlight restore kit, going to rotate the tires and probably lube up the calipers this weekend. Installed dash cam and trickle charger last night. Oh, and I saved all the LED bulbs for my 2017 and installed all those. Almost every socket on the vehicle! I'm going to watch for wear and potentially replace the upper control arms as I believe they are stock. No sign of excessive wear at the moment but these are pretty new tires.
Two more random parting thoughts: This thing has KDSS! I always thought it was just a gimmick but oh my gosh does it make a huge difference on and off road! And the pull-out tray in the cargo area - another thing I thought was just a gimmick but I've already used it multiple times as a workbench in my garage and driveway. The lift also helps as it puts it right at standard kitchen counter height :thumb:
My kid wants to name her cherry.... not sure how I feel about that but I think we'll go with it. There is such thing as a green maraschino cherry, right? Happy to be back in a 4Runner and back on the forums again.
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mcat707
Member
I did the opposite. Had 2015 Tundra and traded it in for a 2015 T4R TRD Pro. Always wanted the T4R Pro. Extremely satisfied with the trade for all the reasons you mentioned about your T4R and also more. I do miss the V8 power and truck bed for hauling large stuff but I don’t miss that uncomfortable seat in the Tundra, and also for the same reasons you don’t like about your Tundra. I had to use a seat cushion on long drives. The only vehicle I’ve owned that made my tail bone ache after long periods of driving.
mistervague
New member
I'm interested to know what you mean by "superior" and "feel right." Never driven a Subaru and my only frame of reference is a 2019 TRD Pro with the Fox suspension. Signs point to a Subaru of some sort being the replacement for our other car one day, so I'm curious.
MAST4R
New member
Well, the Pro are a very small % so it does not really count. Of course, it does great.
Speaking of dirt roads:
stock-vs-stock a Subaru will be faster and more comfy than a stock SR5 or TRD Offroad. The low center of gravity and AWD make it much more stable and nimble than a stock 4R which can barely even corner on the freeway. In addition, there is zero advantage to the solid rear axle in those conditions.
I am not sure of the context in which I wrote that but for most people who never really do any offroading and never upgrade the suspension or just put spacers or crank up cheaper lifts to the max, a Subaru will be both safer and more comfy on dirt roads.
On the other hand, with my upgraded suspension and in 4H, my 4R is not any worse. In fact, it is better. The rougher and the longer the road, the better the 4R with proper suspension becomes since it is not possible to really upgrade a Subaru's suspension.
The only thing you can do to a Subaru to take pressure off the tiny shocks is to air down the tires but if the road is really bad and long, you will start riding like a dump truck, eventually. The same can happen very fast if running LT tires on street pressures on seriously corrugated dirt roads.
In short, for serious use the 4R is in a different league altogether. But, similarly, for light duty use vs stock non-Pro trim, a Subaru is better by a mile.
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Joe-Runner
New member
The OB was CERTAINLY more comfortable on the interstate - no contest there, also the leather seats in the limited and the turning radius will be missed. HOWEVER, I actually prefer the ridiculous height of this 4Runner and the KDSS makes city driving AWESOME! It's amazing that this lifted 4Runner has less body roll than an Outback! I am really enjoying driving this truck.
Then there's the transmission. As was mentioned, TFL Trucks did a great video showing the limitations of the CVT when you really need it off road. Honestly that video is a HUGE part of why I ended up not lifting the OB and outfitting her for off-roading. It's just not capable, unfortunately, and the little bit of off roading I did with was not enjoyable as I just felt like I could get stuck at any moment. The T4R is so much more fun off road.
Also, that OB transmission does not feel like it's going to last. We bought the car new and treated her very nicely. The rubberband feeling during acceleration started probably around 15K miles and has gotten to be ridiculous. I changed the tranny fluid at 60K with no difference. I feel like it's just been getting worse and worse. Great on the highway but annoying in the city. Conversely, I LOVE the feeling of the T4R transmission ��
Note: not all Subarus have this issue. I have driven a 2019 Outback with 10K miles which had ZERO rubberband and our 2019 Forester feels great to drive as well. I still like Subarus, overall.
Then there's the transmission. As was mentioned, TFL Trucks did a great video showing the limitations of the CVT when you really need it off road. Honestly that video is a HUGE part of why I ended up not lifting the OB and outfitting her for off-roading. It's just not capable, unfortunately, and the little bit of off roading I did with was not enjoyable as I just felt like I could get stuck at any moment. The T4R is so much more fun off road.
Also, that OB transmission does not feel like it's going to last. We bought the car new and treated her very nicely. The rubberband feeling during acceleration started probably around 15K miles and has gotten to be ridiculous. I changed the tranny fluid at 60K with no difference. I feel like it's just been getting worse and worse. Great on the highway but annoying in the city. Conversely, I LOVE the feeling of the T4R transmission ��
Note: not all Subarus have this issue. I have driven a 2019 Outback with 10K miles which had ZERO rubberband and our 2019 Forester feels great to drive as well. I still like Subarus, overall.
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85GT-79FJ40
New member
Congratulations!
I actually contemplated trading mine for a tundra a few times recently. But trade in on even a super low mileage 11 like mine is pretty dismal. I restore cars for a living and quite often actually NEED a pickup. But we do have an old OBS F350 as our shop truck and my buddy who owns the shop has an F150. So it's not like I need one personally. I might buy a trailer instead.
After 16 other Toyota 4x4's though I can really say my 11 trail is one of my favorites. Doing the Bilstein/eibach suspension recently totally transformed the truck too. So much better all around. Except my 5'2" girlfriend has a hard time getting in sometimes. Wait until I go to 285's!
I actually contemplated trading mine for a tundra a few times recently. But trade in on even a super low mileage 11 like mine is pretty dismal. I restore cars for a living and quite often actually NEED a pickup. But we do have an old OBS F350 as our shop truck and my buddy who owns the shop has an F150. So it's not like I need one personally. I might buy a trailer instead.
After 16 other Toyota 4x4's though I can really say my 11 trail is one of my favorites. Doing the Bilstein/eibach suspension recently totally transformed the truck too. So much better all around. Except my 5'2" girlfriend has a hard time getting in sometimes. Wait until I go to 285's!
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