Relationship between lift and reduction in track width?
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Ron4RNevada
New member
Jack the front up three inches and measure the distance. Simpler than doing the math. It won't be very much -> perhaps an eighth of an inch each side?
The rear won't change at all.
The rear won't change at all.
D Farms
New member
typically after the alignment its a lot less on an ifs truck, fyi. the wheels point in when they droop or if its lifted, then the arms are moved out to correct for the droop, and you maintain the track width, or at least its closer than what you might think. toyota uses a short arm long arm setup, generally on a parallel arm setup the track width would change but in this case it wont as much.
Ducmonsta
New member
Why do you ask? Curiosity or do you have plans for something?
Keith_PDX
New member
Curiosity. I read where in the Equipt Outfitters build he stated that he added spacers to the build to add back in the track width lost with the lift. Paul, the owner of Equipt seems to be pretty savvy. I am contemplating getting some 1" bora spacers to regain the factory width.
Ducmonsta
New member
If you're happy with the way it looks, I would leave it alone. If you want the look, then put spacers on. I used to run spacers and they worked great. But you have to consider the maintenance of running them too and see if that out weighs the benefit of a look.
I've got a set of spidertrax 1.25 for you to try out before you make the plunge if you'd like.
LandCruiser
New member
This is one of the things that doesn't keep me up at night.
Keith_PDX
New member
I might take you up on that!
I've had Spacers on previous vehicles but always as a stopgap until I could get correctly offset wheels.
I don't like them, my engineer mind does not like hidden steel lugs holding a piece of steel to a piece of aluminum with more pieces of steel holding that to your aluminum wheel. Aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates and I end up worrying about it coming loose at the worst possible times.
With regular wheels you can check your lugs with spacers you have to take the wheel off to check the inner lugs.
I've personally seen failures on the trail and on the highway. Be careful and recheck your torque regularly! Use a torque wrench and specifically recheck after heavy off-roading, driving on washboard roads, or excessive braking like long down hill runs with a trailer (actually avoid towing altogether with them).
scary vid
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/151197-careful-if-you-install-wheel-spacers.html
I don't like them, my engineer mind does not like hidden steel lugs holding a piece of steel to a piece of aluminum with more pieces of steel holding that to your aluminum wheel. Aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates and I end up worrying about it coming loose at the worst possible times.
With regular wheels you can check your lugs with spacers you have to take the wheel off to check the inner lugs.
I've personally seen failures on the trail and on the highway. Be careful and recheck your torque regularly! Use a torque wrench and specifically recheck after heavy off-roading, driving on washboard roads, or excessive braking like long down hill runs with a trailer (actually avoid towing altogether with them).
scary vid
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/151197-careful-if-you-install-wheel-spacers.html
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Keith_PDX
New member
Did you read that thread? He improperly installed them. Same thing can happen with any part, stupid is as stupid does. What was your point in propagating that?
Ducmonsta
New member
I don't think he meant any harm. You do have to check them regularly. Even with red loctite I checked them every rotation. Once a year I took them completely off, cleaned the threads, apply new loctite, and torqued down to spec again.
With that said, they never backed off. Every time I checked them the torque wrench immediately clicked.
With that said, they never backed off. Every time I checked them the torque wrench immediately clicked.
Intruder
New member
Same here. Mine get checked when I put the winter tires on then in the spring when I switch tires again the spacers come right off for a cleaning and inspection.
Hi Keith,
No offense intended. I really like your setup and have been following your build because I intend to mount a Maggiolina rtt on my 5th gen. You have a beautiful truck.
If you are going with a spacer, the spidertrax are pretty much the gold standard. They are well made.
However, coming from experience, (I'm getting old) there is a greater chance of failure than a properly offset wheel. The challenge as I stated before is the heating and cooling of dissimilar metals from the brakes and normal loosening from vibration especially washboard roads. I copied the T4R 4th gen reference as a relevant example, but if you google around you will find many examples of similar failures. I tried to upload several other photos but my phone only lets me upload a single image per post.
I myself ran spacers briefly on my previous vehicle and I'm meticulous. After installing with a torque wrench to proper spec and using red loctite I removed the wheels and rechecked the inner nuts about 500 miles after installation shortly after about 5 miles of washboard roads. I was really disappointed to find two of the inner nuts were less than finger tight and two others were well below spec on the torque wrench. The others traveling with me then checked their trucks and two of them also found loose inner nuts. This was completely un observable without removing the wheels.
The difference between a failure of a spacer due to human error, stupid or otherwise, is that it can be a catastrophic failure since it holds your tires on vs another misc items that could fail and possibly strand you or inconvenience you.
It's true that spacers are a common build item on this forum, and they do serve their purpose. If you are going to run them my suggestion is that you recheck the bolts with a torque wrench at regular intervals and be mindful of the physics involved if they fail.
I apologize if my reponse was bothersome to you. It looks like you use your 4Runner to get out and enjoy the wilds and based on your modifications we seem to have a lot in common, maybe I'll see you out on the trail someday.
No offense intended. I really like your setup and have been following your build because I intend to mount a Maggiolina rtt on my 5th gen. You have a beautiful truck.
If you are going with a spacer, the spidertrax are pretty much the gold standard. They are well made.
However, coming from experience, (I'm getting old) there is a greater chance of failure than a properly offset wheel. The challenge as I stated before is the heating and cooling of dissimilar metals from the brakes and normal loosening from vibration especially washboard roads. I copied the T4R 4th gen reference as a relevant example, but if you google around you will find many examples of similar failures. I tried to upload several other photos but my phone only lets me upload a single image per post.
I myself ran spacers briefly on my previous vehicle and I'm meticulous. After installing with a torque wrench to proper spec and using red loctite I removed the wheels and rechecked the inner nuts about 500 miles after installation shortly after about 5 miles of washboard roads. I was really disappointed to find two of the inner nuts were less than finger tight and two others were well below spec on the torque wrench. The others traveling with me then checked their trucks and two of them also found loose inner nuts. This was completely un observable without removing the wheels.
The difference between a failure of a spacer due to human error, stupid or otherwise, is that it can be a catastrophic failure since it holds your tires on vs another misc items that could fail and possibly strand you or inconvenience you.
It's true that spacers are a common build item on this forum, and they do serve their purpose. If you are going to run them my suggestion is that you recheck the bolts with a torque wrench at regular intervals and be mindful of the physics involved if they fail.
I apologize if my reponse was bothersome to you. It looks like you use your 4Runner to get out and enjoy the wilds and based on your modifications we seem to have a lot in common, maybe I'll see you out on the trail someday.
Also, in the spirit of not being an internet troll, I'm following this thread because I also am concerned about the reduction of track width due to lifting the the stock front IFS And adding a RTT. Looking for collective wisdom as I'm weighing staying on the stock TE wheels vs aftermarket with a 2.5 inch lift.
I ran a tundra and tacoma in the past both with 2-3 inch coilover lifts on stock wheels with +1 sized tires without spacers and didn't feel that the track width reduction made as much difference as the increase in the height of the center of gravity. But with a roof top tent I could see how it might be a concern. Also curious if there is anything specific to the 4Runner platform that might be unique that could contribute to instability.
I ran a tundra and tacoma in the past both with 2-3 inch coilover lifts on stock wheels with +1 sized tires without spacers and didn't feel that the track width reduction made as much difference as the increase in the height of the center of gravity. But with a roof top tent I could see how it might be a concern. Also curious if there is anything specific to the 4Runner platform that might be unique that could contribute to instability.
Keith_PDX
New member
No worries Diek. No offense taken, I just wasn't sure what point you were trying to make when referencing a thread with improper installation as the root cause of the failure.
I now understand your perspective, thanks for the clarification. My thoughts are similar. Although I have no issues with the RTT weight nor have I noticed any significant changes, I just wonder if it could be better. I personally have no interest in aftermarket wheels. I like the Motorsports-Tech/Bora option as they have different width options to choose from and are also a very well respected company.
I now understand your perspective, thanks for the clarification. My thoughts are similar. Although I have no issues with the RTT weight nor have I noticed any significant changes, I just wonder if it could be better. I personally have no interest in aftermarket wheels. I like the Motorsports-Tech/Bora option as they have different width options to choose from and are also a very well respected company.
sovat4r
New member
While I don't recall the exact numbers, I recently measured my rear track vs. the front post lift, and there is definitely a loss of track in the front. My alignment is dead on, running Total Chaos UCAs and 17" Konig 6 Shooters (0mm offset, 4.5" backspace), yet the 'tucked in' look up front vs. wider rear bothers me to no end.
Anyway, I ran Bora for years to correct track on my various fullsize GM trucks, and currently have Spidertrax for the past few years of hard wheeling on my '02 Runner. Never an issue at all with either brand, although with the 'concerning' post of people loosing front wheels earlier in this thread, I'll be triple sure to check my install the next go round.
Long story short, I waited a while for Spidertrax to get their black spacers back in stock, which finally happened this past week, and mine will be installed on the '15 on Tuesday.
Anyway, I ran Bora for years to correct track on my various fullsize GM trucks, and currently have Spidertrax for the past few years of hard wheeling on my '02 Runner. Never an issue at all with either brand, although with the 'concerning' post of people loosing front wheels earlier in this thread, I'll be triple sure to check my install the next go round.
Long story short, I waited a while for Spidertrax to get their black spacers back in stock, which finally happened this past week, and mine will be installed on the '15 on Tuesday.
