Replacing both knuckles, against my will.

[A.Wilson013]

So I ordered all the parts to redo my front suspension, and finally got my last part in today.

2x UBJ
2x LBJ
2x Inner Tie Rods
2x Outer Tie Rods
2x CV Axkes

Anyway, Toyota is not sending out UBJ's anymore, according to Camelback Toyota, so they sent me 2x KNUCKLES with the UBJ's pressed in. I looked at the price for the knuckles :wow2: and decided it was pretty cool, so I'd use them.

I took everything apart this evening and realized I am in a bit over my head with these knuckles. I don't have all the bearings and what not that need to be pressed into the knuckle, and don't even know which ones I would need.

MY QUESTIONS

1. What are all of the parts I need to get the new knuckle working? Has anyone ever done this?

2. Is it possible for me to take both the knuckles to a mechanic and have them press out the old UBJ from the old knuckle, and the new UBJ from the new knuckle, and place the new UBJ in the old Knuckle? Or will the new UBJ likely be damaged in the process?

3. Am I over thinking all of this, and just need to get wheel bearings pressed in?

 

[txbonds]

Tagging along as they are doing the same with me through toyotapartsbarn.com. Thought they were crazy as they are sending like $700 in parts and charging the same as the normal UBJ cost. That said I have the same concern about how hard and what's involved,to use the new knuckles.

 

[EatonKyleH]

So I ordered all the parts to redo my front suspension, and finally got my last part in today.

2x UBJ
2x LBJ
2x Inner Tie Rods
2x Outer Tie Rods
2x CV Axkes

Anyway, Toyota is not sending out UBJ's anymore, according to Camelback Toyota, so they sent me 2x KNUCKLES with the UBJ's pressed in. I looked at the price for the knuckles :wow2: and decided it was pretty cool, so I'd use them.

I took everything apart this evening and realized I am in a bit over my head with these knuckles. I don't have all the bearings and what not that need to be pressed into the knuckle, and don't even know which ones I would need.

MY QUESTIONS

1. What are all of the parts I need to get the new knuckle working? Has anyone ever done this?

2. Is it possible for me to take both the knuckles to a mechanic and have them press out the old UBJ from the old knuckle, and the new UBJ from the new knuckle, and place the new UBJ in the old Knuckle? Or will the new UBJ likely be damaged in the process?

3. Am I over thinking all of this, and just need to get wheel bearings pressed in?

Technically you have everything you need but if you have ever considered replacing your wheel bearings now would be the time to do it. Bring your original and new knuckles to a shop and ask them to press out your bearings and hubs (occasionally the bearing may come apart on the press) and press them into your new knuckles. If memory serves you will also need to replace both inner dust/wheel seals but I forget if these have them. Its not a horribly uncommon request and shouldn't cost more than a half hour of the shop rate.

I for one avoid pressing the upper ball joint in and out from part to part mostly because of liability as there can be fitment issues.

hope this helps.

 

[afg10000]

That's weird. I just ordered UBJ and assembly from camelback for my friends '98 Tacoma about a month ago. They said it was a restricted part and needed the VIN and mileage. After it cleared they sent everything out. Pretty sure it's the same thing that fits the 4Runner -

 

[txbonds]

That's weird. I just ordered UBJ and assembly from camelback for my friends '98 Tacoma about a month ago. They said it was a restricted part and needed the VIN and mileage. After it cleared they sent everything out. Pretty sure it's the same thing that fits the 4Runner -

They called and asked my vin and mileage also. Something about a supply issue and some dealers trying to order a ton of inventory to hold they said.

 

[A.Wilson013]

[MENTION=94888]EatonKyleH[/MENTION] - Thank you so much. Exact kind of answer I was looking for.
[MENTION=88079]afg10000[/MENTION] [MENTION=95329]txbonds[/MENTION] - They asked for my VIN and mileage as well... Then sent these.

 

[BillIam]

A. wilson can you send me your invoice for the parts cost? looking to do the same kind of rebuild

 

[Nelsonmd]

Technically you have everything you need but if you have ever considered replacing your wheel bearings now would be the time to do it. Bring your original and new knuckles to a shop and ask them to press out your bearings and hubs (occasionally the bearing may come apart on the press) and press them into your new knuckles. If memory serves you will also need to replace both inner dust/wheel seals but I forget if these have them. Its not a horribly uncommon request and shouldn't cost more than a half hour of the shop rate.

I for one avoid pressing the upper ball joint in and out from part to part mostly because of liability as there can be fitment issues.

hope this helps.

Not sure you intended it to sound this way, but it sounds like you're saying he can reuse the old bearings. Just to be clear, you can't reuse the old bearings. They will be ruined when getting pressed out,even if they don't come apart, they can't take the stress of pressing out and still function properly.

As for the seals, there are 2 seals, one on each side of the hub. It you are careful pulling your old ones off you can reuse them. They are quite expensive for what they are. I reused mine.

Check out my build thread, I have some pictures from when I replaced my bearings (not alot, but some). I bought used knuckles to replace mine. I didn't press out the UBJ's, but that isn't that hard to do, so don't be too afraid of that. Lots of guys have replaced them at home using tools rented from autozone.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Well, I purchased new bearings and dropped them off at the only mechanic I have ever seen with a 5 star rating on Yelp.

Getting everything transferred over from the old, into the new, with the new bearings.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Oh, and his price was $25 a side.

 

[LittleCaesar]

I am surprised you paid the $125 or more each for an ITR. They are pricey. How much for the whole knuckle if you don't mind me asking?

I can see where the lawyers have had their input into the UBJ issue. If you don't use the right tools, and it doesn't sit correctly, then pop, out it comes. Or possibly the seat in the knuckle for the UBJ increases in size over time, thus a new one will not be as snug and can cause possible liability issues.

I think either Honda or Acura had a ball joint (either lower or upper) which came pressed into the control arm when it came time for a replacement. They did not sell just the ball joint.

 

[afg10000]

I was told by George at camelback that the "restricted part" that Toyota was issuing was for research on older vehicles' performance and longevity. Hence why they wanted VIN and mileage. That doesn't explain why they sent me the whole assembly with the UBJ pressed in and not the OP. That whole move of "if ya need the ball joint ya gotta buy the whole control arm" is a poopy move used by lesser manufacturers. I'm going to a local Toyota dealership to get front diff axle seals and I'll drill them about the matter this week. I find this disturbing -

 

[shinyblackdeer]

Technically you have everything you need but if you have ever considered replacing your wheel bearings now would be the time to do it. Bring your original and new knuckles to a shop and ask them to press out your bearings and hubs (occasionally the bearing may come apart on the press) and press them into your new knuckles. If memory serves you will also need to replace both inner dust/wheel seals but I forget if these have them. Its not a horribly uncommon request and shouldn't cost more than a half hour of the shop rate.

I for one avoid pressing the upper ball joint in and out from part to part mostly because of liability as there can be fitment issues.

hope this helps.

+1 here -- I just received Toyota UBJs and LBJs yesterday. The UBJs came with knuckles. Thanks for the info.

 

[Nelsonmd]

I am surprised you paid the $125 or more each for an ITR. They are pricey. How much for the whole knuckle if you don't mind me asking?

I can see where the lawyers have had their input into the UBJ issue. If you don't use the right tools, and it doesn't sit correctly, then pop, out it comes. Or possibly the seat in the knuckle for the UBJ increases in size over time, thus a new one will not be as snug and can cause possible liability issues.

I think either Honda or Acura had a ball joint (either lower or upper) which came pressed into the control arm when it came time for a replacement. They did not sell just the ball joint.

Yeah, most guys get the autozone special for ITRE's because they are strangely expensive for OEM.

As far as the UBJ's, it is interesting to me that Toyota is now only issuing replacement with knuckles. Are they honoring the original price of the OBJ, so basically sending the knuckle for free, or does the whole thing cost more?

IMO, there isn't a big risk to replacing it yourself as long as you are competent enough and have the equipment to do it right (which isn't actually alot). Also, the UBJ presses out the bottom of the knuckle, so there isn't really a risk of it pulling apart in use if the interference fit gets worn over the years, as shown here:

I think the better design for sure is what most companies do today, which mount press-in parts to a carrier plate that can bolt on instead of having to press parts in and out. There are still advantages to the way our 4runners are though (overall strength and stiffness are better without carrier plates).

Those control arms that come with bearings are generally stamped metal parts and not nearly as strong as a forged, cast, or welded part like our 4runners have. May not be possible on trucks.

 

[A.Wilson013]

I am surprised you paid the $125 or more each for an ITR. They are pricey. How much for the whole knuckle if you don't mind me asking?

I can see where the lawyers have had their input into the UBJ issue. If you don't use the right tools, and it doesn't sit correctly, then pop, out it comes. Or possibly the seat in the knuckle for the UBJ increases in size over time, thus a new one will not be as snug and can cause possible liability issues.

I think either Honda or Acura had a ball joint (either lower or upper) which came pressed into the control arm when it came time for a replacement. They did not sell just the ball joint.

To be clear, I only paid for the UBJ, and recieved 2x Knuckles for the price of the UBJ's. I believe they were asking 264 for each knuckle though.

I was told by George at camelback that the "restricted part" that Toyota was issuing was for research on older vehicles' performance and longevity. Hence why they wanted VIN and mileage. That doesn't explain why they sent me the whole assembly with the UBJ pressed in and not the OP. That whole move of "if ya need the ball joint ya gotta buy the whole control arm" is a poopy move used by lesser manufacturers. I'm going to a local Toyota dealership to get front diff axle seals and I'll drill them about the matter this week. I find this disturbing -

As in the above quote, I ordered UBJ's for ~$30 and recieved the knuckles... A value of nearly 10x that.

+1 here -- I just received Toyota UBJs and LBJs yesterday. The UBJs came with knuckles. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, most guys get the autozone special for ITRE's because they are strangely expensive for OEM.

As far as the UBJ's, it is interesting to me that Toyota is now only issuing replacement with knuckles. Are they honoring the original price of the OBJ, so basically sending the knuckle for free, or does the whole thing cost more?

Knuckle for free, essentially. The Camelback fellow said that Toyota actually pays the dealers back the difference.