Replacing timing belt because of AGE at 52,000 miles???

[ur7x]

Was this ONLY the belt? No water pump, no fluid exhanges, coolant flush, ect?

Often when you get your 90k service done it is a major service and so it costs a lot because you are doing a lot more.

Not to sound like I am picking on you, but if you didn't get the water pump replaced you may have just cost yourself more money than needed.

I service my truck at the recommendation of the dealer AND the recommendation of Toyota USA. There is no need to replace the water pump unless it is leaking... My coolant has been serviced several times since the truck was new.. and that coolant maintenance resulted in a water pump that is just as good now as it was 8 years ago.

If you just replace the belt (The dealer replaced the tensioner and idlers too for $350 all in) there is no need to swap ANY fluids. They get replaced as per Toyota USA too. Oil gets changed as per the book, as does the coolant, diff and tranny fluid...

It breaks my heart that so many dealers just automatically chuck water pumps at these trucks... it is simply NOT needed... I also see some dealers offer all kinds of goofy servicing... Power Steering Fluid Flush WTF! LOL!

BTW I've talked to my dealer about the predominate POV of this forum that we should replace water pumps on these trucks with these belts... He informed me that when he services the timing belts on ALL the 4th Gens, he services them exactly like mine. If there is evidence that the coolant was serviced and it passes visual inspection, he skips the pump (This BTW is exactly in line with the service recommendation from Toyota USA) . .. over the years he has done this for hundreds and hundreds of these trucks, some with over 250,000 miles... Total H2O pump failures? ZERO.

My Toyota dealer's POV is that the water pumps on the V8 4Runners are strong as an M1 Tank... The water pumps on newer RAV4's now that is a different story...

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I service my truck at the recommendation of the dealer AND the recommendation of Toyota USA. There is no need to replace the water pump unless it is leaking... My coolant has been serviced several times since the truck was new.. and that coolant maintenance resulted in a water pump that is just as good now as it was 8 years ago.

If you just replace the belt (The dealer replaced the tensioner and idlers too for $350 all in) there is no need to swap ANY fluids. They get replaced as per Toyota USA too. Oil gets changed as per the book, as does the coolant, diff and tranny fluid...

It breaks my heart that so many dealers just automatically chuck water pumps at these trucks... it is simply NOT needed... I also see some dealers offer all kinds of goofy servicing... Power Steering Fluid Flush WTF! LOL!

BTW I've talked to my dealer about the predominate POV of this forum that we should replace water pumps on these trucks with these belts... He informed me that when he services the timing belts on ALL the 4th Gens, he services them exactly like mine. If there is evidence that the coolant was serviced and it passes visual inspection, he skips the pump (This BTW is exactly in line with the service recommendation from Toyota USA) . .. over the years he has done this for hundreds and hundreds of these trucks, some with over 250,000 miles... Total H2O pump failures? ZERO.

My Toyota dealer's POV is that the water pumps on the V8 4Runners are strong as an M1 Tank... The water pumps on newer RAV4's now that is a different story...

I'm glad that your dealer has not had any issues with water pumps, down here we're seeing the V6 and V8's leaking alot. Most don't make it 30~90k before they need to be replaced. Same with the Rav4's, Corollas, ect. I don't know if its a climate/location issue, but in Northern California there are many leaking pumps for us to work on.

I have also seen what happens if a water pump decides to just quit and take the belt out. Its good to know that you take care of your vehicle regularly and maintain it, but some of the members, myself included are not the original owners of the vehicles and we cannot account for what has and hasn't been done on the vehicle. But the 90k interval IS a major service point in the vehicle's lifespan and should involve a large list of things to be done if you are going by Toyota's literature.

The main reason we (and by we I am implying the dealership I work at, myself, and members who have this PoV) is that;" the timing belt is a relatively large job and while you are there it isn't much more work to change the water pump so why not just get it out of the way and have the peace of mind."

I'm not in the game to scare you or make you give the dealership money, I do what I do because I love working on cars and its something I truely enjoy. I come on this forum not to get people to rush to their dealership, but to help them out and provide the knowledge and experience I have gained in my career.

All that being said, I personally would rather take a proactive approach to potential issues than wait for something to fail based on my experience. You and your dealership have obviously had a much different experience than I and a far less filled warranty bin full of assorted waterpumps. I look at a leaking water pump as a potential and unpredictable failure, can you survive with a leaking water pump? Sure why not, its just dribbling not squirting fluid everywhere. Can you be sure that leaking fluid isn't getting into the bearing or promoting corrosion in the water pump shaft? I personally can't do it and I wll never reccomend something that I myself would not do to my own personal vehicle.

All in all, can't we just be friends? :hatsoff:

Post Note- What's wrong with powersteering flushes? Ideally the system is supposed to be sealed without any real way for it to be contaminated, but seals leak, dirt gets in there, ect. The truth is that fluid is going to become contaminated from many things, I personally don't see a reason to replace the fluid on a really regular basis. But if it is getting dark in color (like mine... need to change it soon), or getting burnt that could be a potential warning of something wrong with the system. Also... I have no clue what we are using for Power Steering fluid these days... our older Toyotas just took T-IV fluid for that, these days its some amberish thing that comes in a bottle labeled Power Steering Fluid.

 

[JB.]

I service my truck at the recommendation of the dealer AND the recommendation of Toyota USA. There is no need to replace the water pump unless it is leaking... My coolant has been serviced several times since the truck was new.. and that coolant maintenance resulted in a water pump that is just as good now as it was 8 years ago.

If you just replace the belt (The dealer replaced the tensioner and idlers too for $350 all in) there is no need to swap ANY fluids. They get replaced as per Toyota USA too. Oil gets changed as per the book, as does the coolant, diff and tranny fluid...

It breaks my heart that so many dealers just automatically chuck water pumps at these trucks... it is simply NOT needed... I also see some dealers offer all kinds of goofy servicing... Power Steering Fluid Flush WTF! LOL!

BTW I've talked to my dealer about the predominate POV of this forum that we should replace water pumps on these trucks with these belts... He informed me that when he services the timing belts on ALL the 4th Gens, he services them exactly like mine. If there is evidence that the coolant was serviced and it passes visual inspection, he skips the pump (This BTW is exactly in line with the service recommendation from Toyota USA) . .. over the years he has done this for hundreds and hundreds of these trucks, some with over 250,000 miles... Total H2O pump failures? ZERO.

My Toyota dealer's POV is that the water pumps on the V8 4Runners are strong as an M1 Tank... The water pumps on newer RAV4's now that is a different story...

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting. You're lucky to have a dealer you can have confidence in.

 

[ur7x]

I'm glad that your dealer has not had any issues with water pumps, down here we're seeing the V6 and V8's leaking alot. Most don't make it 30~90k before they need to be replaced. Same with the Rav4's, Corollas, ect. I don't know if its a climate/location issue, but in Northern California there are many leaking pumps for us to work on.

I have also seen what happens if a water pump decides to just quit and take the belt out. Its good to know that you take care of your vehicle regularly and maintain it, but some of the members, myself included are not the original owners of the vehicles and we cannot account for what has and hasn't been done on the vehicle. But the 90k interval IS a major service point in the vehicle's lifespan and should involve a large list of things to be done if you are going by Toyota's literature.

The main reason we (and by we I am implying the dealership I work at, myself, and members who have this PoV) is that;" the timing belt is a relatively large job and while you are there it isn't much more work to change the water pump so why not just get it out of the way and have the peace of mind."

I'm not in the game to scare you or make you give the dealership money, I do what I do because I love working on cars and its something I truely enjoy. I come on this forum not to get people to rush to their dealership, but to help them out and provide the knowledge and experience I have gained in my career.

All that being said, I personally would rather take a proactive approach to potential issues than wait for something to fail based on my experience. You and your dealership have obviously had a much different experience than I and a far less filled warranty bin full of assorted waterpumps. I look at a leaking water pump as a potential and unpredictable failure, can you survive with a leaking water pump? Sure why not, its just dribbling not squirting fluid everywhere. Can you be sure that leaking fluid isn't getting into the bearing or promoting corrosion in the water pump shaft? I personally can't do it and I wll never reccomend something that I myself would not do to my own personal vehicle.

All in all, can't we just be friends? :hatsoff:

Post Note- What's wrong with powersteering flushes? Ideally the system is supposed to be sealed without any real way for it to be contaminated, but seals leak, dirt gets in there, ect. The truth is that fluid is going to become contaminated from many things, I personally don't see a reason to replace the fluid on a really regular basis. But if it is getting dark in color (like mine... need to change it soon), or getting burnt that could be a potential warning of something wrong with the system. Also... I have no clue what we are using for Power Steering fluid these days... our older Toyotas just took T-IV fluid for that, these days its some amberish thing that comes in a bottle labeled Power Steering Fluid.

If the pump is leaking of course you should replace it... if its not, and the coolant has been serviced... Well to each his own...

And as for PS fluid changing color... Ya, it does that... That doesn't mean it needs to be changed... No where does Toyota motors recommend replacement of PS fluid. As you point out it is a sealed system. I trust the OE and if it needs to be replaced they would recommend it... IMO Toyota USA already has very conservative fluid change schedules, but I follow them to the letter... The belt got missed at 90K most 'cause I thought the wife had had it done.

And your not scaring me, I'm more than a little impressed with my wife's truck's reliability and I'm very happy with my dealers service team... Not something that I can say for some of the GM cars that I own (and have owned). If the dealer had said the pump needed to be replaced I would have ponied up the extra 800 or so for the pump. He was confident that many/most of these are replaced out of habit or with the "while we are there" attitude.

 

[MikeInNH]

There is no need to replace the water pump unless it is leaking...

The reason behind replacing the water-pump is because if it does fail you go through the same labor as you did to replace the timing belt. And Labor is about 90% of the cost. It's just prudent to replace it when the timing belt is done. The cost of the water-pump is miniscule compared to the labor involved to do it.

Since I always did my own timing belts...I replaced the pump every other timing belt...If I paid someone to do it...I's seriously consider replacing it every time.

It's called cost benefit analysis.

 

[ur7x]

The reason behind replacing the water-pump is because if it does fail you go through the same labor as you did to replace the timing belt. And Labor is about 90% of the cost. It's just prudent to replace it when the timing belt is done. The cost of the water-pump is miniscule compared to the labor involved to do it.

Since I always did my own timing belts...I replaced the pump every other timing belt...If I paid someone to do it...I's seriously consider replacing it every time.

It's called cost benefit analysis.

I'm not sure about this POV either... To get deep into my engine the and re&re the belt the dealer charged $350 which included the belt, idlers, labor, shop supplies, taxes, etc. I know that the pump and gaskets are a couple of hundred... I can't see why if you add the pump, the whole project suddenly costs almost 1000 more... I suspect that most dealer are double dipping on this labor and are just putting down the book time for BOTH a timing belt AND a water pump.

And if we are going to take this POV of since we are already there and we are going to replace perfectly good parts, why not replace the Alternator. You had to remove it to get to the belt, or the A/C compressor, it was in the way too, or the Harmonic balancer?

Cost benefit? I have over $800 in my pocket to spend on other stuff and I'm not at all worried about my trucks reliability. I check (and service) the coolant regularly... No leaks no issues. Took the truck on a 2000 mile trip last summer without a care in the world. Truck ran great (though I need to stick that rubber bit in the sun-roof channel. ).

When your biggest grip is an intermittent rattle from the sunroof, you know you have a great truck.

 

[the dutch man]

I would change the timing belt, water pump and thermostat.

I have an 03 that I bought new and I just broke 80K. i just had all the above replaced at the local toyota stealer. The total, including coolant, was $676 out the door on an 8 year old truck. That is cheap insurance on an interference motor that would be a lot more if it exploded going down the highway!

 

[JB.]

With the pink extra long life coolant, anyone know what is being looked for during an inspection. Does it change color noticeably?

 

[MikeInNH]

If it starts to change color then it's well past the time it needs to be changed.

As with all fluids...you don't want to wait until the fluid is on it's last legs before you change it. If you wait that long the fluid is doing more harm then good.

I change mine every couple of years (about 60k miles). It's cheap insurance.

 

[ur7x]

If it starts to change color then it's well past the time it needs to be changed.

As with all fluids...you don't want to wait until the fluid is on it's last legs before you change it. If you wait that long the fluid is doing more harm then good.

I change mine every couple of years (about 60k miles). It's cheap insurance.

Completely agree, even the long life stuff... 24-36 months and its done, regardless of what it says on the bottle, In the days of cast iron blocks, heads, intakes, and pumps you could run the coolant until something started to leak (usually the heater core ). With all of the aluminum parts there are just too many important pieces just dying to be a "sacrificial anode" to take ANY chances with coolant. With modern engines coolant is now almost as important as oil.

 

[KB084RUNNER]

The reason behind replacing the water-pump is because if it does fail you go through the same labor as you did to replace the timing belt. And Labor is about 90% of the cost. It's just prudent to replace it when the timing belt is done. The cost of the water-pump is miniscule compared to the labor involved to do it.

Since I always did my own timing belts...I replaced the pump every other timing belt...If I paid someone to do it...I's seriously consider replacing it every time.

It's called cost benefit analysis.

I always did the timing belt & water pump in my RX330. The cost was about $450 for the whole job at an indy shop here. They replaced the coolant & serpentine belt as well. Parts wear out. Those parts will leave you on the side of the road. As for the P/s fluid...I use a fluid extractor to empty the fluid reservoir every 10,000 miles and re-fill which is good enough to get you to 250,000 miles. The system only uses Dexron or T-IV ATf.

 

[ur7x]

So Im a bit confused here. If Toyota has a recommended 6yr/90k (whichever comes first) maintenance recommendation that includes changing the timining belt. But my drivetrain warranty is for 7yr/100,000k but does not cover timing belt because its a "wear" item, even though it is a key componenet to the drivetrain. Im basically getting screwed by Toyota on a maintenance repair, that, if not completed as scheduled, could destroy my engine. Am I correct? Or is my logic screwed up?

Im in a dilemma here, I have an 05 SE V8 that is 30k shy of the scheduled maintenance, but age-wise, Im up for the scheduled maintenance.

What to do?
:redbrick:

My vote "logic is screwed up"

The oil wears out long before that... Its not warrantied either... In fact failure to service the oil properly will void your warranty (and will also destroy your engine.)...

 

[MikeInNH]

Logic is completely screwed up. Any wear item needs replacing over time....Brakes...Spark-plugs...Drive belts.

Do you expect Toyota to replace the spark-plugs for FREE???...they'll need replacing before the warranty is up. The drive belt(s) should also need replacing...How about oil???

 

[thomasugenius]

The Post by JB, "The maintenance shedule for my '05 calls for 90,000 miles or 9 years. Some say that applies to 04 as well."
I called the dealer today and the part # for the 04 and 05 Timing belts are the same? So my 04 V8 manual calls for 90,000 miles and 6 years and the 05 V8 recommends 90,000 and 9 years. I think I'll hold off on the belt change for 1-2 more years.. Thanks for the good feedback~

 

[jow]

Sharing some personal timing belt experiences on 1980s 240s Volvos:

1. Timing Belts were scheduled to be changed at 45,000 but were said to go 60,000 easily. I learned different by inspecting yearly at least. They had covers designed to allow inspections easily.

2. I had one belt with dry-rot cracks at 40,000 that my warranty replaced vs taking a chance with the non-interference. Some at 45,000 looked new. I was told by a Tech they had steel in them. "NO", I ripped one into by hand with no steel or resistance in his presence.

3. The belts were easy to change @ 200.00 OTD at the dealer, 100.00 by dealer’s mechanics after hours or free by me (1-2 hrs). At that price I only changed the belt, any needed seals vs the water pump unless it had age and wear signs.

4. Being able to inspect the belt was a major factor in trusting it. Once they are cracked, they are deteriorating.

Is having the timing belt replaced “ONLY” vs water pump and etc that bad of an idea at this low mileage for safety and economic? What would be the difference in cost if only the belt is changed? Will a Dealer change the belt only vs the package? Is there a way to easily inspect the timing belt or belts? Good Luck! jow

 

[MikeInNH]

4. Being able to inspect the belt was a major factor in trusting it. Once they are cracked, they are deteriorating.

The problem with that method...is that many times a belt looks perfectly fine...yet 100 miles later it breaks. If you do find something in the inspection..then by all means it should be replaced...but lack of seeing something in the inspection doesn't mean the belt is bad. That's why you should always replace at the dealer recommended interval...ESPECIALLY with a interference engine.

 

[thomasugenius]

RE AGE of the belt: Just spoke to the Toyota Service guy and he informed me that the belts on the 04 and 05 V8 4Runners are the same belts and that Toyota changed the manual from 04 (6 years / 90,000) to (9 years / 90,000) miles. Looks like my 04 V8 runner can go 9 years in between belt changes, rather than changing every 6 years. :guitar3:

 

[Jerrydog]

Will they replace it for free ( your engine) if it breaks sooner? If not, a belt is cheap insurance.

 

[JB.]

Will they replace it for free ( your engine) if it breaks sooner? If not, a belt is cheap insurance.

It's warranted since he's within the maintenance schedule.

 

[saberone]

Is it also the same for the 03's ? 9yrs or 90,000 miles .