Resale value-GX vs Limited 4R

[Craigy]

Already replied to you on clublexus, but I'll reiterate a few points:

Your Toyota dealer never submitted any order anywhere. They're simply waiting to find a similar truck that hits the distributor. That might never happen unless you're very flexible on your build. And by the time they do get it, if they get it, Gulf States Toyota will have added a bunch of junk accessories on it that you don't want but you'll have to pay for, so the price of your build is going to be higher than you think. For me that was also very frustrating when I shopped 4runners about a year ago.

As said above, you can negotiate more on the Lexus than you can on the Toyota. With some legwork and phone calls, you should be able to negotiate $4k-$5k off, more if you pick one with more options.

Also worth considering, since you're putting so many miles on it, is to get a CPO 2016 which comes with an unlimited mileage warranty, up to 6 years.

Finally, I'm a GX owner so I'm biased, but you're getting about 700-800lbs of extra truck when you buy the GX. It's a more heavily built, more comfortable and luxurious vehicle. You might be paying about 10%-15% more, but you are literally getting about 15% more SUV.

 

[amalik]

If I had to do it over again probably I would get the GX.

They are better made and just as capable.

It's kinda funny how Lexus and 4Runner's are both made in Japan, but the former is still much higher quality.

 

[amalik]

$63k on a vehicle? Jeez. I'd never do it.

 

[Jetboy]

It's kinda funny how Lexus and 4Runner's are both made in Japan, but the former is still much higher quality.

I haven't found this to be accurate. At all. The 150's all share the same parts made at the same factory on the same line. The only differences are interiors. In our case engines and transmissions are different between GX and T4R. The idea that a GX is more heavily built is complete nonsense. Frames and such are identical. Most parts like blower motors, control arms, etc. are the same part numbers.

Otherwise I have no evidence or indication that Lexus vehicles are more reliable. Or higher quality. The parts that have failed on my RX350 are rear shocks (both sides - Lexus specific) the infotainment/navigation unit (lexus specific), and a rear wheel bearing (shared with Highlander). On my IS250 it had carbon buildup issues that resulted in engine rebuilds. That engine never carried over to toyota because of this. Similarly the valve springs that failed on the 2GR in the IS350 were fixed before carrying over to the Tacoma. Generally I would anticipate higher quality materials on the interior AND higher rates of mechanical failure with Lexus.

 

[Ellis_McPickle]

I traded my '15 Limited 4Runner this year for a Certified '14 GX 460 with the premium package and haven't looked back. I was getting 19 mpg in the 4runner, 18 isn in the GX.
Ride quality is much improved, V8 and trans are smooth and feel great and overall, the GX is just a nicer vehicle. You won't be sorry!

I enjoy not hitting my head on the door since it swings and doesn't lift, others may dislike it, but it's really not an issue for me.

 

[LandCruiser]

I haven't found this to be accurate. At all. The 150's all share the same parts made at the same factory on the same line. The only differences are interiors. In our case engines and transmissions are different between GX and T4R. The idea that a GX is more heavily built is complete nonsense. Frames and such are identical. Most parts like blower motors, control arms, etc. are the same part numbers.

Otherwise I have no evidence or indication that Lexus vehicles are more reliable. Or higher quality. The parts that have failed on my RX350 are rear shocks (both sides - Lexus specific) the infotainment/navigation unit (lexus specific), and a rear wheel bearing (shared with Highlander). On my IS250 it had carbon buildup issues that resulted in engine rebuilds. That engine never carried over to toyota because of this. Similarly the valve springs that failed on the 2GR in the IS350 were fixed before carrying over to the Tacoma. Generally I would anticipate higher quality materials on the interior AND higher rates of mechanical failure with Lexus.

RX is not a GX. The GX is a Prado Land Cruiser and has much higher build standards.

Interior is better, the hood doesn't wobble on the highway, leather is nicer, it has V8 AND AWD... And there's a good aftermarket for it--either use modified 4Runner or Aussie Prado parts.

 

[Jetboy]

RX is not a GX. The GX is a Prado Land Cruiser and has much higher build standards.

Interior is better, the hood doesn't wobble on the highway, leather is nicer, it has V8 AND AWD... And there's a good aftermarket for it--either use modified 4Runner or Aussie Prado parts.

A Prado does not have higher build standards. It's a different vehicle, but both are built to the same quality standards. The RX is of course a much better highway vehicle. Faster, smoother, quieter, handles better, etc. The interiors are very similar. They use the same blower motors, navigation systems, etc.

 

[LandCruiser]

A Prado does not have higher build standards. It's a different vehicle, but both are built to the same quality standards. The RX is of course a much better highway vehicle. Faster, smoother, quieter, handles better, etc. The interiors are very similar. They use the same blower motors, navigation systems, etc.

The RX is made by the car plant in Fukuoka, the GX in Tahara which is their Land Cruiser/4Runner/4WD plant.

The GX's I've driven were much nicer put together than my 4Runner.

 

[Jetboy]

The RX sells about 5:1 compared to the GX. Of course Toyota puts more effort into the RX. The interior is pretty similar, but it's hard to argue that the RX isn't a step up from the GX inside. The RX gets all the tech first. For example it already has an 8 speed AT. It's only 6hp less than the GX with 1,000lbs less mass. RX has more room in the front and middle row. (They have the same exact wheel base but the RX is wider slightly and has no 3rd row so the two front rows are bigger).



The GX vs a 4runner is a lot closer comparison. Chassis are identical. Sheet metal is a subjective preference - do you like a hatch or a side door? The GX460 has a nicer interior than a 4runner and a small v8. I'm a fan of nice leather. However, I have little question that the 4runner softex will outlast leather in the long run. The GX also lacks utility in some ways. For example the rear seats don't fold down flat. For utility the 4runner is far better in that respect. GX has awd. Not a selling point for me. Actually that was a detracting point for me that it lacks a 2wd option. If it had the awd system from the IS/GS - sold. The basic GX version with an open center diff is not compelling to me. I'd rather take the mileage. I drove them back to back quite a few times before buying a 4runner. They're both very similar vehicles. I prefer the body styling of the GX. If it went on a diet and lost 1000lbs, I'd probably have bought the GX. As it is - the 4runner has so much better resale that I can trade across for a GX anytime with essentially no cost. I consider it quite a bit as it would probably tow my camper a bit better. The downside is that I'd lose the flat deck in the back that I use pretty regularly and the rear locker. So I'd end up having to put an ARB in or find a rear axle from a 4runner/fjcruiser to swap in, and even then with the 3.93 ratio diffs, I'd still end up having to doe a gear set swap too. So it's a pretty major effort to match a 4runner trail's performance in the dirt even if you ignore the weight and low body clearance issues. And you only get crawl control and MTS with the Luxury package that also has air springs. I've run GX air springs in my 4runner already and didn't really love them.

 

[Threev8s]

I’m reminded every time I drive my wife’s ’14 4R why I’m glad I bought the GX. I just drove her 4R on a rainy, low visibility night and realized how much better the GX headlights are. That alone is a huge difference for me. Aside from all the obvious differences (V8, sheet metal/paint quality/interior materials/sound isolation), there are some worthwhile differences depending on what is important to you. The 5th gen 4R is a great vehicle. The GX just offers a bit more and is definitely less taxing to drive long distances. The Lexus service experience is icing on the cake.

 

[Craigy]

I haven't found this to be accurate. At all. The 150's all share the same parts made at the same factory on the same line. The only differences are interiors. In our case engines and transmissions are different between GX and T4R. The idea that a GX is more heavily built is complete nonsense. Frames and such are identical. Most parts like blower motors, control arms, etc. are the same part numbers.

Otherwise I have no evidence or indication that Lexus vehicles are more reliable. Or higher quality. The parts that have failed on my RX350 are rear shocks (both sides - Lexus specific) the infotainment/navigation unit (lexus specific), and a rear wheel bearing (shared with Highlander). On my IS250 it had carbon buildup issues that resulted in engine rebuilds. That engine never carried over to toyota because of this. Similarly the valve springs that failed on the 2GR in the IS350 were fixed before carrying over to the Tacoma. Generally I would anticipate higher quality materials on the interior AND higher rates of mechanical failure with Lexus.

Just look at the curb weights on both vehicles. It's almost half a ton. Granted the V8 definitely adds some weight over the V6, but even subtracting from that I have a hard time believing that there's a 500lb+ delta in just interior components. There's only so many options you can tick, and things like heated seats and levinson speakers only weigh so much over the Toyota counterparts.

Quality wise, both are quality products. But the 4Runner is built more cheaply, plain and simple, because they are building to a cheaper price. Even though most of their products share platforms that frequently run off the same assembly lines, Toyota places tighter tolerances on the Lexus products. And the Prado sold under the Toyota name is sold as a premium sport utility vehicle over cheaper alternatives like the FJ, Fortuner, and LC70.

I agree though, I don't see why Lexus product would be significantly more reliable. Like you mention, fancier electronics and new direct injection systems are more problematic, if anything. But in the case of the GX, it's got the V8 straight from the Tundra and Sequoia, and a nav system that's about a decade old :laugh: so those aren't a concern.

 

[Jetboy]

Just look at the curb weights on both vehicles. It's almost half a ton. Granted the V8 definitely adds some weight over the V6, but even subtracting from that I have a hard time believing that there's a 500lb+ delta in just interior components. There's only so many options you can tick, and things like heated seats and levinson speakers only weigh so much over the Toyota counterparts.

Quality wise, both are quality products. But the 4Runner is built more cheaply, plain and simple, because they are building to a cheaper price. Even though most of their products share platforms that frequently run off the same assembly lines, Toyota places tighter tolerances on the Lexus products. And the Prado sold under the Toyota name is sold as a premium sport utility vehicle over cheaper alternatives like the FJ, Fortuner, and LC70.

I agree though, I don't see why Lexus product would be significantly more reliable. Like you mention, fancier electronics and new direct injection systems are more problematic, if anything. But in the case of the GX, it's got the V8 straight from the Tundra and Sequoia, and a nav system that's about a decade old :laugh: so those aren't a concern.

We know without a doubt that the frames are the same with a slight difference in length. Every suspension component is interchangeable and uses the same part numbers. Most of the Prados come with either a 4cyl or the 1GR like the 4runner. The only differences are the engine/transmission/and body/interior. That is what adds up to the weight difference. They share many of the same interior parts as well. Everything that can be shared is. The components under the dash for example like heater blower motors - same part numbers. The GX weight cancels out the extra power though. They have nearly identical performance.

A Prado150 with a 1GR 5 door weighs as little as 4,400lbs - exactly the same as a 4runner 4x2. A Prado 150 4x4 with a 1GR is around 4800lbs (many more variations) A Trail 4runner (closest cousin) weighs 4,750lbs. GVWR is identical (almost) at 6300 for the 4runner and 6,283 for the Prado 150 (2,850kg). Any way you slice it - they're the same car with different options.

Also the Prado is cheaper than an LC70 in markets that both are sold. The LC76 is the closest comparison and it actually is built significantly more robustly. Axles, suspension, etc. are all heavier. They have 9.5" ring gears compared to 8" for the 150 series. Side by side - that's a huge difference. It's Dana 60 vs Dana 44. It's also offered with a v8 diesel that's not an option for a Prado. It's basically a 3/4ton vs half ton comparison between the two.
This is a pic of a ring gear from a Prado/GX/4runner with one from an LC70 for comparison.

In a perfect world we'd get a left hand drive LC76 with a 4.5L diesel or the 4.6L v8 on one end and have the RX on the other end of the spectrum and offer everything in between. As it sits we're pretty limited on options. The GX is tilted to highway driving and the 4runner is tilted to more utility use.

 

[MSRP.]

Haven't really found the answer yet, but here in Toronto, Canada, Gx’s are worth considerably more than 4th gen v8’s.
Probably close to 50% more for something in comparable trim and mileage.
..not complaining as I bought my v8 at prices way lower than I see my ameri-friends signing for.

 

[devildog92]

Thank you!

I just wanted to send out a 'thank you' to all of you that have weighed-in on this topic, it is GREATLY appreciated.

Today I made a decision...

After TREMENDOUS deliberation, over a period of several months, I made a move today. I am now the owner of a new 2016 Nautical Blue 4Runner Limited with Redwood interior.

It was a very difficult choice, however as badly as I wanted a V8 and stronger customer service I could not justify an extra $8-13k. This Limited has pretty much everything on it that was available to the 4Runner model, and I walked out of the dealership with a happy face, knowing I just bought a vehicle with absolutely incredible resale value and reliability to at least 250k...or much more.

I tried and tried to find a GX with JUST the equipment on it that I wanted (a base GX in Nightfall Mica with just nav, no other extras) and not pay for items I didn't care about, and just couldn't find a new base GX for a sticker of $53,9XX. EVERY ONE of them, from Vegas to Texas, were at minimum $56k (most were at least $58k Premium models) with lots of equipment I didn't want. Three extra grand may not sound like alot of money over 5-7 years, but $3k is $3k no matter how you slice it (let alone $10k for the diff in price of a Limited v Base GX with very limited equipment), especially when Lexus may not approve what I want to build (as I was told by three diff Lexus dealerships).

Again, thanks for all you do and the assistance you've given. Ppl like you make this a great board to participate in.

Have a great evening.

DD92

 

[Ellis_McPickle]

Enjoy your 4Runner! They're great vehicles, and with the resale being what it is, you always have options. Sounds like you made a good choice.

 

[Gecko]

Pics!!!