Ride Quality Question

[stever1000]

I agree, if you're changing the struts up front you might as well change the springs. They get soft over time & I bet you're experiencing the nose dive when hitting the brakes. The new 99's aren't that expensive & you're spending big bucks on the Bilsteins. You can save money by installing the Billy HD 4600's since you aren't lifting. They're cheap on Amazon. The 99 talls are only an inch shorter than the 906's, I'd leave the tiny rake. If you raise an adjustable Billy upfront the ride will get stiffer.

If I go with new 99 coils up front, wouldn’t it be best matched with 99 coils in the rear too? Or are the 906 suggested to give a bit of initial rake to combat the inevitable sag?
I will look into the Bilstein 4600s. Are they the same as the 5100 for handling, just for stock height?

Thanks

 

[Scramble]

If I go with new 99 coils up front, wouldn’t it be best matched with 99 coils in the rear too? Or are the 906 suggested to give a bit of initial rake to combat the inevitable sag?
I will look into the Bilstein 4600s. Are they the same as the 5100 for handling, just for stock height?

Thanks

Even new 99's in the rear sag with weight added. 906's are stiffer & that's why people pair them with Billys. From what I've read 4600's & 5100's are basically the same except the 4600 are considered stock length OEM replacements. I'm pretty set on new 99's with 4600's in the front & 906's with 3rd gen specific 5100's (0"-2" of lift) for the rear for my Limited.

 

[sleepydad]

1) What's with the "906 NOT 880" thing??
2) ToyTec has a 3" rear spring, and a Superflex(3.75") spring. A Superflex 3" coil doesn't exist. I'm only bringing this up to give clarity to people using your example to possibly copy for themselves.


[emoji847]

I would definitely recommend the 906/880 combo with 4Runner 5100 front and rear. Buy from Wheelers, and have them assemble the fronts for you- it makes the front a complete breeze. If you don't, you have to get additional bushings for the top, get new top plates(unless you want to use your old ones, which means compressing those springs too)use spring compressors, almost die- all that.
I installed 3" ToyTec rear coils, 881 front coils, and 5100 all around on my buddy's 4R, and it rides so nice! Much better than mine with the '99 tall fronts with added pre-load to get it to the same height as the 881 on the bottom 5100 perch. His has a pretty good rake to it with the 3" rear and 881 front, so I'd bet you would have a comparable rake. If you want it to sit a little more level, either go with the 881, or have Wheelers set the 880 on the second or third perch. Since I don't have experience with the 906's, I can't give any insight to where they sit.
Here is the ToyTec 3" rear with OME 881 front-

That was only a week or so after install, and I feel like the 881 have settled some, while the 3" rears have not. He's my neighbor- so I see his rig daily- and it looks a little too nose-low right now. We'll probably go up a notch or two in the front to make it sit a little more level. Tires are just under 32" tall.

I posted and then double checked. I made a mistake. Still have the OME box and I had 906 in the rear. Since someone might have read the post I wanted to make sure I corrected it. Your correct the super flex are much taller than 3”. I did not want to lie outright. I owned up to my mistake in a way hopefully if anybody read it before I fixed it they would hopefully understand.

I did put some pics in my build thread.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/247329-2000-limited-sleepydad-build.html#post2851150

Sorry if it caused confusion.

 

[stever1000]

Even new 99's in the rear sag with weight added. 906's are stiffer & that's why people pair them with Billys. From what I've read 4600's & 5100's are basically the same except the 4600 are considered stock length OEM replacements. I'm pretty set on new 99's with 4600's in the front & 906's with 3rd gen specific 5100's (0"-2" of lift) for the rear for my Limited.

So the 906 lift too much to use 4600's in the rear as well?

 

[Scramble]

So the 906 lift too much to use 4600's in the rear as well?

Not really, Plenty of people use stock length shocks with the 906's. I just want the extra travel because I will be taking it on easy trails when my 3RZ is up on jack stands. Which it always seems to be these days. LOL

 

[stever1000]

Awesome...I will look at the 4600s then for both front and back as I don’t plan to flex too much

 

[fochtup1]

You should be more specific on which Bilsteins you want to use. (HD 4600's, Tundra, 4th gen, 3rd gen, etc) Use your stock front coils with new 4runner 5100's until you find a set of 99's. There's not much difference between the 2. 2000's are around the same height as the 98's.

Is there a chart or comparison like this for the rear springs....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Scramble]

Is there a chart or comparison like this for the rear springs....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont recall a chart, but there are plenty of lift threads to read & you can get people's opinions on how they ride.

 

[Novashards]

I just replaced the ones on my 2000 limited all around with bilstein 5100s and OME 880 & 890. She rides great now, feels like a normal vehicle, not too stiff.

 

[stever1000]

I just replaced the ones on my 2000 limited all around with bilstein 5100s and OME 880 & 890. She rides great now, feels like a normal vehicle, not too stiff.

Can you post a photo from the side?

 

[stever1000]

Even new 99's in the rear sag with weight added. 906's are stiffer & that's why people pair them with Billys. From what I've read 4600's & 5100's are basically the same except the 4600 are considered stock length OEM replacements. I'm pretty set on new 99's with 4600's in the front & 906's with 3rd gen specific 5100's (0"-2" of lift) for the rear for my Limited.

Are you getting your new 99 coils from camelback?

 

[Scramble]

Are you getting your new 99 coils from camelback?

Yes, Camelback is my OEM go to. Or I might use my old 99's from my 3RZ that I took out in 2015 with 143K on them. My Limited has 221K.

 

[stever1000]

I agree, if you're changing the struts up front you might as well change the springs. They get soft over time & I bet you're experiencing the nose dive when hitting the brakes. The new 99's aren't that expensive & you're spending big bucks on the Bilsteins. You can save money by installing the Billy HD 4600's since you aren't lifting. They're cheap on Amazon. The 99 talls are only an inch shorter than the 906's, I'd leave the tiny rake. If you raise an adjustable Billy upfront the ride will get stiffer.

Even new 99's in the rear sag with weight added. 906's are stiffer & that's why people pair them with Billys. From what I've read 4600's & 5100's are basically the same except the 4600 are considered stock length OEM replacements. I'm pretty set on new 99's with 4600's in the front & 906's with 3rd gen specific 5100's (0"-2" of lift) for the rear for my Limited.

I'm double quoting you because I'm very close to making a very similar decision as you...

Where did you find cheap 4600's? When I search for the front '24-187244' on Amazon.com they are ~$72-78 whereas the 5100's from wheelers (front) are $88 a piece right now. I'm wondering if the price is this close, would you upgrade to the 5100s both front and rear since there is less than $50 in cost savings?

I keep going back and forth between OME 880 vs 99 talls in the front and the money I would save by going with 880s in the front I could do Bilstein 5100s. What made you decide 99 talls over OME 880 if you were to purchase either new anyway?

I hate these decisions as this is my daily driver and I want to be comfortable

 

[Kanoe]

Where did you find cheap 4600's?

Aren't you in Vancouver? Have you looked at Essex distributors? They are in Van also. Canadian source for Bilstien. Prices are in Canadian dollars and you can likely just swing by and pick them up. Save the shipping cost and waiting. Plus local warranty support if needed. I bought mine from them.

As for the 99 talls, people run them because they already had them in the truck, or they found them in a junk yard. I think they are a little expensive at the dealer for most of us, especially in Canada. These are not that hard to find at junkyards. I have pulled 2 sets now and passed up a 3rd I didn't want. Have you checked around? 6 months ago I threw out an extra set that I could not give away, too bad you weren't looking then.

 

[stever1000]

Aren't you in Vancouver? Have you looked at Essex distributors? They are in Van also. Canadian source for Bilstien. Prices are in Canadian dollars and you can likely just swing by and pick them up. Save the shipping cost and waiting. Plus local warranty support if needed. I bought mine from them.

As for the 99 talls, people run them because they already had them in the truck, or they found them in a junk yard. I think they are a little expensive at the dealer for most of us, especially in Canada. These are not that hard to find at junkyards. I have pulled 2 sets now and passed up a 3rd I didn't want. Have you checked around? 6 months ago I threw out an extra set that I could not give away, too bad you weren't looking then.

I don't want to install used springs in the front, so that's why the cost is higher for me (even from Camelback toyota and shipping to my US mailbox)

I was looking at the US pricing for the shocks because they are generally cheaper, even after shipping and driving to my mailbox.

 

[KingPrat]

I don't want to install used springs in the front, so that's why the cost is higher for me (even from Camelback toyota and shipping to my US mailbox)

I was looking at the US pricing for the shocks because they are generally cheaper, even after shipping and driving to my mailbox.

If you want tall springs on the cheap, why not look at MOOG?

I have them installed on my Runner. At the price, even if the rears sag in 2 years, I will happily buy again and reinstall. Think I have under $120 in all 4 springs...

 

[Kanoe]

I don't want to install used springs in the front, so that's why the cost is higher for me (even from Camelback toyota and shipping to my US mailbox)

I was looking at the US pricing for the shocks because they are generally cheaper, even after shipping and driving to my mailbox.

If you are set on new coils, I'd get the Old Man Emu's and save a few bucks. I have never heard anyone say anything negative about them in comparison to the 99 talls.

Front springs don't tend to get replaced due to sagging, only the rears. That's why we use junkyard 99 talls in the front. In the rear, not recommended.

 

[stever1000]

If you are set on new coils, I'd get the Old Man Emu's and save a few bucks. I have never heard anyone say anything negative about them in comparison to the 99 talls.

Front springs don't tend to get replaced due to sagging, only the rears. That's why we use junkyard 99 talls in the front. In the rear, not recommended.

Why wouldn't the front sag as well? I assumed both would sag with age and weight as the coil wears out?

 

[TheDurk]

Why wouldn't the front sag as well? I assumed both would sag with age and weight as the coil wears out?

Assume all you want, as the original owner of a '99 tall I can tell you the rear sags and the front doesn't.

 

[phattyduck]

Why wouldn't the front sag as well? I assumed both would sag with age and weight as the coil wears out?

Metal fatigue is relative to the amount of relative movement of the metal.

The rear springs move a lot more (1:1 motion ratio) than the front springs (1.7:1 or so), even though they are about the same total length of wire.

If designed right, springs shouldn't wear out (within reason).

-Charlie