Sas vs long travel suspension!

[B.peat]

Hey guys,
So I'm an Aussie and no one here offers a long travel kit for the 4runner.. I'm real keen on the idea over the sas for my 87 model.. Can u guys give me some pros and cons on both please? As no one in aus has done it, I can't get a good answer on our forums.. Also who would be the best to go with for the kit?

Cheers guys.
Ben

 

[KidVermicious]

Well, a long-travel setup from Total Chaos or Blazeland will give you more suspension travel, which is nice for keeping all four tires on the dirt, but uses a T100 CV axle which isn't much stronger than the stock shaft. Modify it for coilovers and you'll get much better performance in the go-fast stuff, but it'll still have that relatively weak CV shaft. Depending on how you set it up, a solid axle can give you as much wheel travel as you want, and with links and coilovers can be almost as nice a ride as modern IFS and much stronger to boot. At the extreme end of offroading, IFS is becoming dominant - it's even showing up and being competetive in rock racing events like King Of The Hammers, and nobody is rougher on their suspension than rock racers.

So it really comes down to what kind of wheeling you do and what your budget is. The ultimate setup is probably a custom long travel IFS with high end coilovers and RCV shafts, but that's probably north of $10,000 of suspension. If your priority is overlanding and light wheeling and you don't break CVs very often, a commercial long travel kit is probably right up your alley. If you're wheeling hard enough to need more strength and don't have the budget of a sponsored race team , then a solid axle is for you, and you can build that with a tiny tiny budget or to be as capable as you want it.

 

[B.peat]

Oh cool.. Well say a budget around 2k.. Would this even put me close to being able to do a long travel setup? It's my daily, but I also head out bush when I can and am always keen to hit the real rough tracks..
I've heard the long travel is far superior for on road over solid axel..
With my budget of 2k, I'm happy to save a little longer for a better result..

 

[BucknutBob]

Think of the long-travel set-up as just an extended IFS--that's why it will certainly ride smoother on the road than a solid axle set-up, because it isolates the bumps to one side or the other. It sounds like it may be a better option for the type of driving you mentioned. Solid axles really come into their own when there are large variations in the height of obstacles, because they lift everything when you place a tire on the obstruction, unlike an IFS that only lifts that particular tire (leaving the undercarriage low and vulnerable). Also, you simply can't get the wheel travel from a modified IFS that you can from a flexible solid axle set-up--as KidV mentioned, the only guys getting gobs of wheel travel have big-dollar custom-built long travel set-ups. So if your intentions are for mostly for smooth roads and some rough roads that don't include a lot of tall obstacles, then long-travel IFS is your best bet; if crawling over stuff is going to be on the plate, then solid axle is the way to go (when taking a reasonable budget into consideration).

 

[KidVermicious]

Ok, um... there's nothing about a long travel IFS that is inherently better for pavement travel than a solid axle, or even stock IFS. A long travel setup just replaces the a-arms and CV shaft with longer versions. Driving comfort has much more to do with your spring rate and shock absorber setup, and you don't need long travel or a solid axle in order to modify those things.

Respectfully, if you don't even know what a long-travel setup actually is, I think you need to slow down and ask yourself what it is you really want from your truck. If you're trying to improve the road feel of a daily driver that sees occasional dirt, just get some better shocks.

 

[B.peat]

I do know what long travel ifs is. I have been looking into my options for a while now.. But on other forums i have read that they ride better on road in comparison to sfa hence why I asked about that. Obviously with an unlimited budget u can achieve anything, but I'm basically talking entry level upgrade that would provide a solid base for further upgrade down the track if need be. I'm working towards a tourer that I can use to take around Australia and get to some pretty secluded areas.. So it will hopefully one day see all types of terrains with all different levels of difficulty. And the road comfort thing is a factor as travelling around any country will have u doing a lot of freeway miles so it has to be comfy and safe on road as well as capable off road

 

[KidVermicious]

I do know what long travel ifs is. I have been looking into my options for a while now.. But on other forums i have read that they ride better on road in comparison to sfa hence why I asked about that.

Again, with respect, if you think there's anything about a long travel IFS that'll make it ride better than a solid axle or even a stock IFS setup, you don't understand what you're asking about. Ride quality is entirely a function of spring rate and shock valving. Handling is a function of those things and suspension architecture. Wheel travel is a function of suspension architecture. All a long-travel setup will do is change your suspension architecture - it will give you more wheel travel, it will change your handling for better or worse depending on how you do it, and it will have no effect AT ALL on ride quality.

Your stock IFS is better than a stock solid axle in terms of handling and ride comfort, but not as good when it comes to durability or wheel travel. Once you start talking about upgrades to either system or what you convert your own suspension to, all that goes completely out the window. So I'll go back to what I've already said - if you're breaking CV shafts, you need a solid axle. If your CV shafts are strong enough but you're bottoming out your suspension, long travel might be a good upgrade. If you aren't hitting the bumpstops and aren't breaking CVs, then neither a solid axle or a long travel suspension will be any improvement in any category, and you again need to ask and answer the question what do you want from the truck? Define that, and we can give you better advice. Your stock truck can handle 99.99% of Australias' dirt just fine and you don't need to upgrade anything in order to go lots and lots of very cool places. So define what you need from the truck that it isn't doing now, and you'll have a much better idea of what modifications you need to make. You keep coming back to the ride quality of long-travel vs. a solid axle, but I think if you actually needed either of those things that ride quality would not be highest on your list of concerns. For better ride quality, leave your IFS alone. Make sure your torsion bars aren't worn out, and then look into better shocks.

 

[BucknutBob]

I respectfully disagree with you on this one, Kevin--smoother ride and handling are exactly why the manufacturers switched from solid axle to IFS, and a long-travel set-up is just an IFS that can take bigger hits. Solid axle suspensions are well-known for having a more-jittery feel, because it doesn't isolate the shock like an IFS does. A stock IFS would probably have better road manners than a long-travel set-up, but they're both going to be smoother than a solid axle design with similar spring rates.

 

[Footofgod]

opcorn:

I've never driven either one, so I will just sit and watch Kev and Bob duke it out.

Stock IFS rules!!!

 

[KidVermicious]

I respectfully disagree with you on this one, Kevin--smoother ride and handling are exactly why the manufacturers switched from solid axle to IFS, and a long-travel set-up is just an IFS that can take bigger hits. Solid axle suspensions are well-known for having a more-jittery feel, because it doesn't isolate the shock like an IFS does. A stock IFS would probably have better road manners than a long-travel set-up, but they're both going to be smoother than a solid axle design with similar spring rates.

What are we disagreeing about? I said that going to a long travel setup won't ride any better on the road than stock IFS, and could be worse - isn't that what you said?

 

[B.peat]

It's all good info that your giving me kid v, but as I said, we don't have anyone doin these kits in aus, so all the info I have is from US forums and manufacturers websites.. All these do say that they provide a better alternative to live axel, I'm not looking for a road car comfort upgrade, if so I'd buy a sports car.. But I don't want to drive around the country in a car with zero comfort.. I get that different shocks provide different handling and driving conditions. So far I haven't had any troubles offroad besides normal wear and tear that you'd expect. But I do know my cars limits.. I don't want to invest 6 months into a trip only to get home and wonder what I missed due to being restricted by my rigs abilities. That's why I'm after info.. So I can build for the future, not for what I haven't been able to do.. I gues I'm just after pros and cons of both setups from people who have seen both options first hand

 

[BucknutBob]

What are we disagreeing about? I said that going to a long travel setup won't ride any better on the road than stock IFS, and could be worse - isn't that what you said?

I guess I misinterpreted your comment--I'll put the boxing gloves back in the closet (HEHE).

 

[thatoneguy]

It's all good info that your giving me kid v, but as I said, we don't have anyone doin these kits in aus, so all the info I have is from US forums and manufacturers websites.. All these do say that they provide a better alternative to live axel, I'm not looking for a road car comfort upgrade, if so I'd buy a sports car.. But I don't want to drive around the country in a car with zero comfort.. I get that different shocks provide different handling and driving conditions. So far I haven't had any troubles offroad besides normal wear and tear that you'd expect. But I do know my cars limits.. I don't want to invest 6 months into a trip only to get home and wonder what I missed due to being restricted by my rigs abilities. That's why I'm after info.. So I can build for the future, not for what I haven't been able to do.. I gues I'm just after pros and cons of both setups from people who have seen both options first hand

Sooo, you want more capability, and you want it to ride decently?

Pretty much anything can ride well. Remember Kid talking 3x about shocks? I have $100 shocks in my front for my solid axle. The front rides like a dream; I'm convinced it's better than my IFS with monroe shocks was. The rear, with cheaper shocks, isn't near as nice.

How tough do you want it? Both setups can ride good if you can spend the money. Do you want to bolt-in a long travel setup? Can you torch and weld in a solid axle setup? Do you have US$3000 (i don't know how aussie dollars convert) to spend on your truck's suspension setup?

 

[Lunch-Box]

I guess I am one of those weirdo's...my 1st gen is solid axle...my work truck is solid axle...and I HATE riding around in my wife's Exploder...with its independent crap. Feels like I'm floating. I like to feel the road...how much does a baby-butt smooth ride really mean to you people? You want it to look tough, function off road...and not jostle the groceries a bit?

 

[NoHair]

The JDFab kits are nice but by the time you're done it is a lot if $. Yes it rides nice on and off road regardless of what anyone says, but it does take time to tune them the way you like it.
I had just OME shocks and springs on mine before I installed all my LT kit and it took quite a beating and had rode very nice.
That is my recommendation. OME stuff

From this weekend.