school me on bead locks

[Battle Born Offroad]

4.5BS, 0 Offset :biggrin2:

 

[wrench.n.wheel]

4.5BS, 0 Offset :biggrin2:

That's a shame, I need 3.5 BS.

 

[SnowLizard]

1 33s hold beads really well, I routinely ran my 33s down to 8psi and never had a problem without beadlocks. They aren't that much bigger than stock tires and on a decent rimthey hold just fine

ABSOLUTELY!!! people need to know a 16 inch rim can REALLY hold a stiff walled tire, I too routinely air down to 10 on rocks/dirt and 6 in snow...

I have yet to pop a bead on my stock rims.

running 285/70r16 (32x11.5 r 16) nitto trail grapplers (mud terrain)

 

[bike]

I normally air down to 5ish on stock wheels. Haven't lost a bead yet (but won't be surprised when I do). I've burped a bead a couple times at speed (driving way too fast for that pressure) but nothing major.

 

[sleepydad]

4.5BS, 0 Offset :biggrin2:

hmmm ok these are cool I did not know they existed. kind of the better of both worlds for those of use who do not need the best of one world by sacrificing the road world.

not sure they will clear things however with the wider bead.

looks like the 16x8 with 0 offset have a 1/2" wider bead than normal wheels so... most tire calc stuff uses standard beads width and so these really need to be figured as 16x9 with 0 offset giving them a 4.5 backspace.

that is not going to clear the UCA at full droop, unless special custom wheel spacers were used. bummer.

because I would totally be on board with these.

 

[jkeith.w]

I was thinking about all of this last night; using that calculator, wouldn't it be more useful to consider offset than BS? The important clearance is the tire (for truck purposes tire is much wider than the wheel, after all) and the wheel offset is what determines the centerline of the tire relative to the hub face, fender, suspension, etc...

Wheel bead wall thickness and its implications for BS doesn't affect the tire clearance.. particularly when comparing a theoretical tire/wheel setup with a known one?

 

[96RedRunner]

Damn, beadlocks I want are still $500 each, guess I'll be sticking to what I'm running till lottery pays.

 

[Team_Jake]

I was thinking about all of this last night; using that calculator, wouldn't it be more useful to consider offset than BS? The important clearance is the tire (for truck purposes tire is much wider than the wheel, after all) and the wheel offset is what determines the centerline of the tire relative to the hub face, fender, suspension, etc...

Wheel bead wall thickness and its implications for BS doesn't affect the tire clearance.. particularly when comparing a theoretical tire/wheel setup with a known one?

This is EXACTLY why I argue that offset is the key factor in determining UCA clearance, not backspace. I’m sure someone will chime in soon telling me why I’m wrong...
[MENTION=168172]sleepydad[/MENTION] You may also want to consider DOT compliant beadlocks, like Hutchinson’s Rock Monster Wheels - they are pretty badass!

 

[Battle Born Offroad]

hmmm ok these are cool I did not know they existed. kind of the better of both worlds for those of use who do not need the best of one world by sacrificing the road world.

not sure they will clear things however with the wider bead.

looks like the 16x8 with 0 offset have a 1/2" wider bead than normal wheels so... most tire calc stuff uses standard beads width and so these really need to be figured as 16x9 with 0 offset giving them a 4.5 backspace.

that is not going to clear the UCA at full droop, unless special custom wheel spacers were used. bummer.

because I would totally be on board with these.

These were designed specifically for Toyota platforms and have been mounted to FJ, Tacoma, Land Cruiser, 4Runners, etc without issue. I wouldnt take those liberties with the math, figure them as what they are, 16x8 0 Offset, 4.5BS. We have 27 sets with not one of our customers having a fit problem. Check Method's gallery for more images.

 

[rkntoy]

This is EXACTLY why I argue that offset is the key factor in determining UCA clearance, not backspace. I’m sure someone will chime in soon telling me why I’m wrong...

Chime! Actually you can use either number...

If you are trying to compare clearance to UCA or the frame, backspace is what you want to look at to compare apples to apples between wheels. Offset will change with different wheel widths so you end up having to calculate backspace in order to figure out distance from WMS to back side of wheel.

 

[sleepydad]

Chime! Actually you can use either number...

If you are trying to compare clearance to UCA or the frame, backspace is what you want to look at to compare apples to apples between wheels. Offset will change with different wheel widths so you end up having to calculate backspace in order to figure out distance from WMS to back side of wheel.

section width of the tire and offset of the wheel of the exact size you want to run will determine everything. it's the only way to know for sure. backspace is only for wheel clearance. will the wheels fit? yes they will.

backspace tells you nothing really when it comes to tires. it might be import for clearance on the steering knuckle but... in the 4runners case that is not the issue. I agree there is a key measurement for clearance and each vehicle type/suspension variation is going to be different.

measuring from wheel mounting surface to the obstruction, in this case that is the UCA.

I know this measurement is 5.5" on my truck because I can measure it. at full droop. I prob should go measure it at full compression as well.

the tire I'm looking @ is BFG KM3 285/70 R17

according to BFG this tire has a section width of 11.5" ON 8.5"

wheel is 701 MR70178560500 so... 17x8.5 0 offset and 4.75 backspace

so that actually makes things easy because 0 offset, if we did have an offset we would have to account for it.

11.5" / 2 = 5.75" so this wheel tire combo is going to rub.

but this is good because it tells me how far I need to move things.

11.5" / 2 = 5.75" - 1/4" = 5.5" but that will rub so really 3/8" -10 mm offset would be the min value to shoot @. and you can't go to far unless you want to start hacking fenders off.

- offset moves tire out so you would take the (section width/2) - offset and that gives you the inside protrusion.
0 center line just split the section width
+ offset move the tire in so you would take the (section width/2) + offset and that gives the inside protrusion.

for 16" wheels this is different

If I want to go with 285/75 R16

SECTION WIDTH ON RIM WIDTH 11.3" ON 8"

16x8 0 offset backspace 4.5

11.3" / 2 = 5.65 so closer but still this would need a - offset to make up.

bottom line if you going to run bigger tires than stock... real world measurements are the only way to know for sure and of course once you mount the wheel and tire your out that $ for sure. trial and error.
[MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] yea exactly.

 

[WhiteBoomer04]

I like those wheels! Only problem is that with no ring (either fake or real) is there is no protection for the wheel from rocks and boulders on trails. I can see the lip of those things getting trashed pretty quickly.

 

[sleepydad]

These were designed specifically for Toyota platforms and have been mounted to FJ, Tacoma, Land Cruiser, 4Runners, etc without issue. I wouldnt take those liberties with the math, figure them as what they are, 16x8 0 Offset, 4.5BS. We have 27 sets with not one of our customers having a fit problem. Check Method's gallery for more images.

I did look at the method gallery for Toyota

Toyota Wheels

there are no shots of any 3rd gens running these wheels or any method wheels. so pretty sure they are targeting newer platforms not 3rd gens at all.

if you know for sure the 16x8 or 17x8.5 will work without spacers and no rubbing I will order a set. I'm probably heading the level 8 path because they make a -6mm offset in the same size that should work better than the methods.

if the answer is yes those will work yes we will return them if they don't then again I'm in, but my experience is once the wheel is mounted to a tire it's not returnable.

 

[jkeith.w]

there are no shots of any 3rd gens running these wheels or any method wheels. so pretty sure they are targeting newer platforms not 3rd gens at all.

if you know for sure the 16x8 or 17x8.5 will work without spacers and no rubbing I will order a set.

This is the only one I found:

 

[96RedRunner]

"If I want to go with 285/75 R16 16x8 0 offset backspace 4.5"

This is what I ran on 96Red with 2.75" lift Cooper STT's, no issues with UCA.
Occasionally if turned just right and stuffed just right tire would scub rear plastic inner fender. If steering on lock turned and stuffed just right would scuff frame a bit, worked the same with fender opening nothing more than a scuff.
Believe extended bumps would have solved the issue. 0 offset 4.5" BS is a sweet spot.
Did not have running boards on, did have to remove front LtD bumper cladding and trim valance.

 

[rkntoy]

section width of the tire and offset of the wheel of the exact size you want to run will determine everything. it's the only way to know for sure. backspace is only for wheel clearance. will the wheels fit? yes they will.

backspace tells you nothing really when it comes to tires. it might be import for clearance on the steering knuckle but... in the 4runners case that is not the issue. I agree there is a key measurement for clearance and each vehicle type/suspension variation is going to be different.

measuring from wheel mounting surface to the obstruction, in this case that is the UCA.

I know this measurement is 5.5" on my truck because I can measure it. at full droop. I prob should go measure it at full compression as well.

the tire I'm looking @ is BFG KM3 285/70 R17

according to BFG this tire has a section width of 11.5" ON 8.5"

wheel is 701 MR70178560500 so... 17x8.5 0 offset and 4.75 backspace

so that actually makes things easy because 0 offset, if we did have an offset we would have to account for it.

11.5" / 2 = 5.75" so this wheel tire combo is going to rub.

but this is good because it tells me how far I need to move things.

11.5" / 2 = 5.75" - 1/4" = 5.5" but that will rub so really 3/8" -10 mm offset would be the min value to shoot @. and you can't go to far unless you want to start hacking fenders off.

- offset moves tire out so you would take the (section width/2) - offset and that gives you the inside protrusion.
0 center line just split the section width
+ offset move the tire in so you would take the (section width/2) + offset and that gives the inside protrusion.

for 16" wheels this is different

If I want to go with 285/75 R16

SECTION WIDTH ON RIM WIDTH 11.3" ON 8"

16x8 0 offset backspace 4.5

11.3" / 2 = 5.65 so closer but still this would need a - offset to make up.

bottom line if you going to run bigger tires than stock... real world measurements are the only way to know for sure and of course once you mount the wheel and tire your out that $ for sure. trial and error.

[MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] yea exactly.

Gotcha.

I guess I don't care how much is hanging out on each side of the center of the wheel as I am about how much a combo is going to rub my frame. Cutting down on rubbing it has been a lot easier for me to figure out backspace and width. Going from a 16x8 4.5" backspace to a 16x8 4" wheel is going to gain me a .5" of clearance at the frame.

 

[dannypowell]

my truck has bead locks, my 4runner does not. the truck is running 42"s tires, the 4runner, 37's. I can and do air the 37's down to 4 psi regularly, zero issues. they are radials, and the sidewall has lots of give.


the 42's are bias and the sidewalls do not have a lot of give. I could never get away with the low pressures I need/want without the beadlocks. I can say this with certainty, because I had tons of issues prior to the beadlocks.


Aluminum wheels will hold a bead MUCH better than a steel wheel. for higher speed stuff, you wont be able to go down as low without locks. but for general trail use, you could get away with single digits without them.

Very interesting offer, do you sell it????
that said, I am a hug proponent/fan of bead locks. you just have to be aware of what you're getting into.
I have ran with far too many people, and dealt with way too many popped beads from people that SHOULD have bead locks. its very time consuming to deal with on the trail...




just like a winch/locker/etc its much better to have them available just in case.

Very interesting offer, do you sell it? I `m interesting!!! I have enough money to buy this car. I worked for a long time in publishing and was engaged in writing an essay for students. I like my work very much since I can write on any topic, I recently wrote an excellent essay on the Vietnam War Vietnam War Essay Examples | Samples.Edusson , you can read it. There is also a lot of essay about the topic of cars, which will also be interesting to you.

 

[DaMonkey]

so can they be balanced?
do the filler bead things work ok for balancing? have heard they get all clumped up once they get wet.

will I still be able to buzz down the road @ 75 MPH?

It sounds like you are talking about filling them with a bunch of little plastic pellets? Questionable practice anyway, but never heard of them in bead locks. Might not make too many friends if they poured out from a torn sidewall.

Suppose you could try balancing them best you can, but that would be like waxing your car before your first crack up derby. It doesn't compute.

Yes you can go 75mph no problem and you can abuse them at that speed.

... always wanted them so sexy!...

Sounds like you are after style points, which we all are. It's all good. I don't have nearly the experience on the trails as much as I do with desert racing. Wheels of course are big deal style wise, and desert racers have a strict set of style rules. The black sock flat billers size up everyone and if you have a set of bead locks on a street truck that does not need them, they won't be your friend. That 'need' will be sized up by not only the competency and fabrication of the rest of the build, but also whether it's obvious that it truly gets used in way that bead locks are needed.

These same guys that adhere to strict style rules within their tribe, most of them run faux bead locks on their street trucks. But to be cool, you need to get the right ones. The bead lock bolts should actually look real, and the manufacturers that also make real bead locks are the de facto choice. Just don't get those off brand wheels that too few bolts around the rim. Methods are a safe choice as far as tribal style.

I raced Baja for 10 years and have destroyed countless bead locks. Still occasion BITD class 10. Wheel choice tends to become more a function of strength and reliability. Sure, I care about stye for my 4runner, and even if I pursue much much more serious trails and wear black socks and a flat bill, it's hard to imagine I would ever need real bead locks. Mad respect to the fellas that need and use them on the trail.

 

[sleepydad]

It sounds like you are talking about filling them with a bunch of little plastic pellets? Questionable practice anyway, but never heard of them in bead locks. Might not make too many friends if they poured out from a torn sidewall.

Suppose you could try balancing them best you can, but that would be like waxing your car before your first crack up derby. It doesn't compute.

Yes you can go 75mph no problem and you can abuse them at that speed.



Sounds like you are after style points, which we all are. It's all good. I don't have nearly the experience on the trails as much as I do with desert racing. Wheels of course are big deal style wise, and desert racers have a strict set of style rules. The black sock flat billers size up everyone and if you have a set of bead locks on a street truck that does not need them, they won't be your friend. That 'need' will be sized up by not only the competency and fabrication of the rest of the build, but also whether it's obvious that it truly gets used in way that bead locks are needed.

These same guys that adhere to strict style rules within their tribe, most of them run faux bead locks on their street trucks. But to be cool, you need to get the right ones. The bead lock bolts should actually look real, and the manufacturers that also make real bead locks are the de facto choice. Just don't get those off brand wheels that too few bolts around the rim. Methods are a safe choice as far as tribal style.

I raced Baja for 10 years and have destroyed countless bead locks. Still occasion BITD class 10. Wheel choice tends to become more a function of strength and reliability. Sure, I care about stye for my 4runner, and even if I pursue much much more serious trails and wear black socks and a flat bill, it's hard to imagine I would ever need real bead locks. Mad respect to the fellas that need and use them on the trail.

right, I mean I don't really need much. I could ride my bike everywhere so... the question of need is really subjective IMO.

I don't really care about being judged. fooling around offroad is about fun and recreation for me. I don't need to prove I can break my truck or my body beating the crap out stuff. function over form always where it counts. respect for running the Baja that is some hard core stuff. now... if you told me you did in the stock VW beetle class... those dudes are hardcore.

I do wheel offroad but I'm not into running any races. I like to run lower pressures but I really don't want to pop a bead. I know running bead locks would give me the piece of mind. In the end I just went with old school steel pizza cutter. I know a couple of people with dedicated trail rigs who run home brew bead locks. but... they don't drive down the road.

<a href="https://imgur.com/mEwg6pp"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/mEwg6ppl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[DaMonkey]

right, I mean I don't really need much. I could ride my bike everywhere so... the question of need is really subjective IMO.

I don't really care about being judged. fooling around offroad is about fun and recreation for me. I don't need to prove I can break my truck or my body beating the crap out stuff. function over form always where it counts. respect for running the Baja that is some hard core stuff. now... if you told me you did in the stock VW beetle class... those dudes are hardcore.

I do wheel offroad but I'm not into running any races. I like to run lower pressures but I really don't want to pop a bead. I know running bead locks would give me the piece of mind. In the end I just went with old school steel pizza cutter. I know a couple of people with dedicated trail rigs who run home brew bead locks. but... they don't drive down the road.

<a href="https://imgur.com/mEwg6pp"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/mEwg6ppl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Truck looks great. FWIW if you did get bead locks, I have no judgement. You asked to be schooled and I shared what I’ve learned. For those that do have judgement, their trucks look alike. I am, after all, the guy with the bright pink shift knob with a ruby encrusted skull. I get ripped apart for that thing but I love it.