Should I or shouldn't I, or shafts or no shafts.

[willbgood]

I am doing a 3" lift on my 2001. The upper ball joint on the passenger side will not come out no matter how much coaxing I give, (heat it beat it, cuss at it). Its like a knotted dog and not even hot water followed by cold will get it let loose of the *****. In 44 years of wrenching, I have never run across a ball joint so difficult. I can't even get the ball removal set to budge it.

I have to pull the steering knuckle and place it in a standing press, hold my tongue right and hope 4 tons will knock it out the hole.

The toy has 154,000 on it, and the propeller shafts and boots seem in good condition. I can not seem to find any maintenance schedule for replacement of the propeller shafts, but I am thinking since I am here, pissed off and don't want to be pissed off in the near future, maybe I should do the propeller shafts while we are visiting, and I am fighting with the knuckles like an ex-wife.

So, since I am pulling the knuckle, should I replace the shafts with some knew shafts? If so, remanufactured or new? what the best brand?

I could also just buy new boots and parts and rebuild the shafts. Or I can just slap it all back together and wait for day when they go south.

AS well, should I go after the wheel bearings? From what I see my require some tool purchases or a shop with the specialty tools, unless someone know how to do it without them and can direct me to a DYI thread?

If you have links, please post them as I think others have probably gone through this same thing.

So, what say ye?

Working on really big stuff, with an unlimited budget, is so much easier sometimes...

 

[willbgood]

I missed this brilliant post!

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/97006-drive-prop-shaft-greasing-guide-2.html

 

[Jhelms]

At 154K, your gunner is barely in her 30's haha

- Wheel bearings are generally good to 250K or more. I have had a set start to go at 220K. In my post in my sig, on one of the pages I show how to do the wheel bearings. You WILL need a 20T press and several specialty tools to do it right. Not a job you can do with a slide hammer like on a car. These bearings, also known as BABS (big ass bearings) are just that... big and take some force to press out. Also you will need to replace the seals when the time comes after replacing the bearings.
- I never replace the CV's unless I tear a boot. Otherwise if they are not leaking or making noise, they are good
- Do you mean the upper ball joints will not come out of the UCA? or out of the spindle?
- 3" lift... a 1" diff drop / diff spacers will not hurt. They do not lower the diff a full inch, but they do help some. Every degree counts when you are trying to increase the CV's life when lifted.

 

[willbgood]

Steering knuckle spindle.

So how about greasing the propeller shafts?

In the world I came from, where I learned not to be intimidated by tools, grease and fuel are used at almost the same ratio. So, is the grease in those sealed boot good until I bust one?

 

[Jhelms]

Steering knuckle spindle

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/162849-3rd-gen-upper-ball-joints-ubj-easy-way.html


You did take the snap ring out first?
2001 Toyota 4Runner Parts - Camelback Toyota Parts - Genuine OEM Parts - Free Shipping


You could clean out the old grease and re-apply but the axles last so darn long I never bothered. Also, it is a BIG mess. Lots of grease and it plops out and runs all over. That is why, when you tear a boot - it blows all over hell and back. I hate working on CV's so I would just rather replace the assembly with a re-man when one fails. They are never that expensive and not worth the time and mess to clean or rebuild yourself IMO. This is one of the very few parts I view in this way.

 

[willbgood]

PS...this is a big ass bearing

But I get your point and thank you for the info.

<img src="http://www.dincanada.com/sitebuilder/images/DIN_Big_Bearing_04-482x384.jpg">

 

[willbgood]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/162849-3rd-gen-upper-ball-joints-ubj-easy-way.html


You did take the snap ring out first?
2001 Toyota 4Runner Parts - Camelback Toyota Parts - Genuine OEM Parts - Free Shipping


You could clean out.

The old grease and re-apply but the axles last so darn long I never bothered. Also, it is a BIG mess. Lots of grease and it plops out and runs all over. That is why, when you tear a boot - it blows all over hell and back. I hate working on CV's so I would just rather replace the assembly with a re-man when one fails. They are never that expensive and not worth the time and mess to clean or rebuild yourself IMO. This is one of the very few parts I view in this way.

"That is why, when you tear a boot - it blows all over hell and back". not to mention 5000 rpms at times...

Yes snap ring is out, used a screw press, hammered, heated, PB'd for three days, and cussed, and it ain't budging.

I don't mind the mess, and I am thinking now boots at the least so next year on a trip, I am not in in the middle of no where, chasing scorpions, or spiders, in 110 degree heat, as I replace a propeller shaft, wishing I did not drink the last bear the night before.

 

[Jhelms]

"That is why, when you tear a boot - it blows all over hell and back". not to mention 5000 rpms at times...

Yes snap ring is our, used a screw press, hammered, heated, PB'd for three days, and cussed, and it ain't budging.

I don't mind the mess, and I am thinking now boots at the least so next year on a trip, I am not in in the middle of no where, chasing scorpions, or spiders, in 110 degree heat, as I replace a propeller shaft, wishing I did not drink the last bear the night before.

The inner / outer OEM boots which are the best IMO... cost about $70 per set at discount.

You can get replacement axles from napa for $90ish each. So in short, I recommend just purchasing axles from napa. They seem to have quite a good rep around here.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/118912-if-you-have-used-napa-cv-axles-please-reply.html

And if a boot rips on a trip.. no biggie. Not something you have to replace in field. Just replace when you get home. Now a broken CV... NO FUN.

 

[willbgood]

Segway

So my son, a new Newmont gold trained Millwright is on a job at new mine. The mill is a mess.

He discovers a cooling fan that is in such disrepair that it is about to go to pieces and likely kill someone. The fan requires they cut a hole in the roof and remove it...big ass fan with big ass bearings...

So he pulls it out and brings it to he shop and rebuilds it by replacing the vanes. Another crew replaces the big ass bearings. Well they get the fan in and then can't get the thing to balance. A contract crew was hired for this, but my son could have done it if the company had paid for the laser balancing equipment, instead they paid for twice in hourly billing. Anyway after about a 72 our shift with a few naps he calls me and tells me about it.

I tell him one of the new bearings is bad, either manufactured bad, or knocked hard in the install...he goes in a few hours later and mentions this and everyone looks at him, and current shift lead man tells him, yeah, we just replaced it...the balancing took about another hour...

Age has its benefits...

 

[willbgood]

I put Oreily's on my sons, 94 P/U 2 years ago, when boots on both sides gave out, (previously mine, and road hard, put up wet on our farm,) and he has a lifetime warranty of them...he says they are holding up good.

I just did a Toyota parts search and either way the parts to rebuild them are about the cost of a reman.

So, doctor, what is the significance of the 555 stamp I keep reading about?

 

[willbgood]

So since we are the boot topic...

I was reading earlier about a boot mod. I involves inserting a backer, extending the boot length, and using a hose clap to hold the boot in place. It seems to work, but as an industrial mechanic I do not recommend using the hose clamp.

For many years we have known that balancing a propeller shaft is crucial to longevity of the bearings and shaft life. While I understand that a shaft with a CV joint is somewhat different than a straight shaft, I can not depreciate the value of balance in my small mind.

When you place a hose clamp on a location that should use a precision boot clamp, you are adding the weight of a screw clamp to one side of your shaft...any balance is lost...not a big deal off road at low speed, but at highway speeds it is is going to cause excessive wear...

I have to wonder if this why I hear about so many shaft/CV failures while rock crawling.

Two cents from a guy who balances big ass shafts in big ass bearings.

Of course I think in .0002 and for most folks its a foreign language.

 

[willbgood]

This mornign durin g my re-coffee...

I called a remanufacturer of propeller shafts. These guys rebuild industrial shafts, as well for the auto market. I spoke with Kevin, and he seemed very knowledgeable and clearly understood the ins and outs of Chinese manufacturing. Which be good, bad, or really ugly.

His insight in regards to "cv" joints, was remarkable. One of the things we discussed was the hose clamp replacement or mod. His opinion was that in the auto application, it is not a problem, but a standard but clamp would be best for durability.

In regards to the Chinese new, he told me most are not rebuildable because of non-standard parts. In other words, the CV and joint, may be specifically built to any spec the Chinese choose, and it has been discover that they have used a worn joint as the pattern for their new manufacture. There is nothing new under the sun, the Chinese tailor lives on.

He will not take a Chinese "new" in for rebuilding, because there are to many variables among manufacturers. He will only take known to be OE shafts, something I can not confirm on this rig.

On the other hand, he did say NAPA's are good and the lifetime warranty is good. Since the cost of shipping from my location, two ways with core return, to his location is about the same as NAPA new, and NAPA is everywhere, I am going to buy NAPA new.

Here is a simple trouble shooting page from Kevin's website: Trouble Shooting Guide Constant Velocity Of Ocala Inc.

As well here is a page that details why any old reman may not be such a good choice and why so many folks have failures:
Retail

If I was east of the Mississippi, and knew my shafts were original equipment, I would ship to Kevin in a Heart beat, he knows his stuff.

 

[willbgood]

NAPA it is

I picked up a set of Napa shafts from Tinks Napa in Saint George UT today for $76 bucks with my discount...I am there, I might as well do them now and hopefully I will get a few years out of them