Shudder

[Epic Ed]

Several months ago, my 2007 4Runner (230,000 miles on OD) started to give me an intermittent shudder accelerating at low speeds in the 30-35 MPH range. The diagnosis by two different shops is torque converter. Options:

1. Replace torque converter
2. Rebuild current transmission
3. Replace transmission with a remanufactured tranny
4. Replace transmission with a low(er) mileage tranny from a scrapyard

All four options are within about $400 of each other so price isn't my driving motivator. I'm gonna get soaked, regardless. I'm a long-time owner of many 4Runners, Land Cruisers, and Tacomas and plan to keep this 4Runner at least to 300K+ miles. Which option would you choose?

 

[Warwicke36]

Several months ago, my 2007 4Runner (230,000 miles on OD) started to give me an intermittent shudder accelerating at low speeds in the 30-35 MPH range. The diagnosis by two different shops is torque converter. Options:

1. Replace torque converter
2. Rebuild current transmission
3. Replace transmission with a remanufactured tranny
4. Replace transmission with a low(er) mileage tranny from a scrapyard

All four options are within about $400 of each other so price isn't my driving motivator. I'm gonna get soaked, regardless. I'm a long-time owner of many 4Runners, Land Cruisers, and Tacomas and plan to keep this 4Runner at least to 300K+ miles. Which option would you choose?

If ir were me I'd fo with option 5. Dump a bottle of Wynn's shudderguard in and see if it goes away. If it does change the fluid for new and add another bottle of Wynn's (yes it has to be this product)

Ive done this to a number of high mileage vehicles in my fleet with a lot of success. If that option doesn't suit you I'd put reman in.

 

[Epic Ed]

If ir were me I'd fo with option 5. Dump a bottle of Wynn's shudderguard in and see if it goes away. If it does change the fluid for new and add another bottle of Wynn's (yes it has to be this product)

Ive done this to a number of high mileage vehicles in my fleet with a lot of success. If that option doesn't suit you I'd put reman in.

I did back in December and it went away until recently. Zero other issues with up-shifting or down-shifting. Are you thinking I should just ride it out until I can't? I'm not entirely opposed to doing it that way, I just don't want it to go out at a really inconvenient time - like on a road trip.

 

[Captsolo]

Before I try the Wynn's shudderguard, I'd do a 4/5 quart drain and fill.
Has the tranny ever received service? That's a lot of miles (230,000). How many?

I have a 2005 SR5 with 150,000 miles. I'm on an island 26 miles long (Nassau, Bahamas) and have never had so much as a single check engine light since I bought the 4runner from Dealer.

I've never had an overheat and I check my coolant tank overflow every other day for "loss" - and there is almost never any loss! The temp gauge is always in the gray area while driving.

I had the dealer tranny service at 100,000 miles and it was a drain and fill (no complete flush). My tranny shifts like new. No shutter.

I like the replacing the tranny with one from a low milage wrecked one.

 

[firebirdguy]

I did back in December and it went away until recently. Zero other issues with up-shifting or down-shifting. Are you thinking I should just ride it out until I can't? I'm not entirely opposed to doing it that way, I just don't want it to go out at a really inconvenient time - like on a road trip.

did you do a full fluid change or just add a shudder additive? at 230k it should have had 1 or 2 fluid changes by now. if you only used an additive i would try doing a full fluid exchange with the additive before pulling the trans. not saying that will fix the problem if its too far gone but many people report a fluid change fixed or greatly improved the shudder issue, & many used maxlife fluid that is designed to eliminate shudder & is full synthetic.

i dont think the shudder will cause the trans to go out on you, it will usually just continue to shudder or get worse. personally i would try the fluid change for less than $100 (if you do it yourself with maxlife) before spending $1000+ to change the trans.

also if the trans shifts good & no other issues it would be cheaper & wiser to get a new TC, buying a used trans could have a bad or close to going bad TC too.

 

[Epic Ed]

Appreciate the input. I have not done a full drain/flush of the transmission. I bought it in 2015 with 134K on it and I'm unsure if it had been done previously, but I doubt it.

The repair quotes I'm getting are ridiculous. $3850 to rebuild current transmission. $4350 install a remanufactured tranny. And those are from a non-dealer service center. The dealer quoted $2700 for a low mileage salvage yard tranny.

I don't have the tools/pump necessary to do the fluid swap myself, but I think it will be worth it to pay someone else to do it and see what kind of results I get.

 

[Epic Ed]

...also if the trans shifts good & no other issues it would be cheaper & wiser to get a new TC, buying a used trans could have a bad or close to going bad TC too.

I hear you, but the majority of the price for the service is in the labor. With 230K on the OD it would make sense to just rebuild all components while it's being serviced - if I could find a reasonable price to get it done. Right now the TC, alone, would still run around $3k.

 

[eleven14]

Appreciate the input. I have not done a full drain/flush of the transmission. I bought it in 2015 with 134K on it and I'm unsure if it had been done previously, but I doubt it.

The repair quotes I'm getting are ridiculous. $3850 to rebuild current transmission. $4350 install a remanufactured tranny. And those are from a non-dealer service center. The dealer quoted $2700 for a low mileage salvage yard tranny.

I don't have the tools/pump necessary to do the fluid swap myself, but I think it will be worth it to pay someone else to do it and see what kind of results I get.

Toyota charges $250ish around here for a full transmission fluid exchange. Whoever you have do it, be sure to ask for an exchange and not a flush. I'd definitely try that + shudderguard before anything else if I were in your shoes.

 

[firebirdguy]

Appreciate the input. I have not done a full drain/flush of the transmission. I bought it in 2015 with 134K on it and I'm unsure if it had been done previously, but I doubt it.

The repair quotes I'm getting are ridiculous. $3850 to rebuild current transmission. $4350 install a remanufactured tranny. And those are from a non-dealer service center. The dealer quoted $2700 for a low mileage salvage yard tranny.

I don't have the tools/pump necessary to do the fluid swap myself, but I think it will be worth it to pay someone else to do it and see what kind of results I get.

toyota suggests a trans fluid exchange at 100k, & 60k if towing or any "hard" use. so you are 2x past even the light duty maint schedule. again, if the trans shifts & operates ok there is no reason to rebuild the entire thing or replace with another used trans. try a fluid exchange & add the shudder fix for a couple hundred bucks before paying 3-4 thousand!

& you dont need a pump or any special tools besides some pliers & a socket/wrench to remove the fill plug on the trans. watch some youtube vids of how to do a fluid change on a sealed toyota trans, its very easy & takes all of an hour or 2. you start the engine with a drain hose to a container & the trans pump pumps out the fluid. then you fill the same amount you removed with a funnel & hose into the fill hole on the side of the trans. no pump, no special tools, very simple to do yourself. but if you dont want to or cant do it yourself then its well worth the couple hundred bucks to have it done by a mechanic.

best of luck whatever you decide to do but i think its worth trying a fluid change before spending half or more of what the 4runner is worth for a new trans that may not be needed.

 

[djpope09]

Appreciate the input. I have not done a full drain/flush of the transmission. I bought it in 2015 with 134K on it and I'm unsure if it had been done previously, but I doubt it.

The repair quotes I'm getting are ridiculous. $3850 to rebuild current transmission. $4350 install a remanufactured tranny. And those are from a non-dealer service center. The dealer quoted $2700 for a low mileage salvage yard tranny.

I don't have the tools/pump necessary to do the fluid swap myself, but I think it will be worth it to pay someone else to do it and see what kind of results I get.

Is the $2700 quote from Toyota the price for the used transmission + labor? LKQ sells salvage yard transmissions for ~$250 + $250 for shipping. Is it really $2200 in labor to swap a transmission?

 

[Epic Ed]

Is the $2700 quote from Toyota the price for the used transmission + labor? LKQ sells salvage yard transmissions for ~$250 + $250 for shipping. Is it really $2200 in labor to swap a transmission?

Yep. And that's the lowest quote I've received. :shrug:

 

[AuSeeker]

Is the $2700 quote from Toyota the price for the used transmission + labor? LKQ sells salvage yard transmissions for ~$250 + $250 for shipping. Is it really $2200 in labor to swap a transmission?

Yep. And that's the lowest quote I've received. :shrug:

Toyota as well as any garage will mark up the price on parts (many times twice as much or more than what they got it for) they acquire, so if they paid $250 they will charge you at least $500 plus any shipping costs because they WILL make some money on used parts!!

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

Any kind of warranty with the dealer quote? Surprising that the dealer was the lowest one.

 

[jambone]

Just another post in agreement with doing a transmission fluid replacement. I didn it myself in an hour or two, and it only cost about $125 or so for the Toyota transmission fluid and some other stuff. I had the exact same symptoms and had even tried the ShudderFix. After the fluid exchange, it has shifted so smoothly and no shudder.

 

[Epic Ed]

Any kind of warranty with the dealer quote? Surprising that the dealer was the lowest one.

Yes. 2 year/24K for the remanufactured or rebuild. 1 year for the salvage yard tranny.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

Yes. 2 year/24K for the remanufactured or rebuild. 1 year for the salvage yard tranny.

You might try the fluid exchange sooner than later, if it cures it, your good to go. If not? You do have an option or two. It just sucks because you have to stress about it until you get it sorted out. Good Luck and I hope it goes well.

 

[Epic Ed]

You might try the fluid exchange sooner than later, if it cures it, your good to go. If not? You do have an option or two. It just sucks because you have to stress about it until you get it sorted out. Good Luck and I hope it goes well.

I have the service scheduled next week at the dealer so I know it will get done right. The more research I've done on this issue, the more I'm hopeful that the tranny fluid exchange will resolve the issue. It's entirely possible the fluid has never been serviced at 230k miles. Combined with the fact that there are ZERO other issues up-shifting, down-shifting, shifting under load, etc., I'm very optimistic.

 

[eleven14]

I have the service scheduled next week at the dealer so I know it will get done right. The more research I've done on this issue, the more I'm hopeful that the tranny fluid exchange will resolve the issue. It's entirely possible the fluid has never been serviced at 230k miles. Combined with the fact that there are ZERO other issues up-shifting, down-shifting, shifting under load, etc., I'm very optimistic.

Good call.

And for what it's worth, others have received some pushback from the service manager against doing it on a vehicle with that many miles but assure them you've done your research and know what you want. To me, the fact that it's likely never been done at 230k miles is ALL the reason you need to do it.

Let us know how it goes

 

[firebirdguy]

I have the service scheduled next week at the dealer so I know it will get done right. The more research I've done on this issue, the more I'm hopeful that the tranny fluid exchange will resolve the issue. It's entirely possible the fluid has never been serviced at 230k miles. Combined with the fact that there are ZERO other issues up-shifting, down-shifting, shifting under load, etc., I'm very optimistic.

also be sure they do a FULL fluid exchange, not just a pan drain & fill. they should charge you for at least 12 qts of fluid.

nothing wrong with using the WS fluid but if you do some research you will see countless people use maxlife & its about half the cost of WS & is full synthetic. maybe call before & ask if they will let you bring in your own fluid? or ask what fluid they use, ive heard of some dealers just using a bulk fluid thats not even real WS.

 

[empty403]

If the transmission flush or adding Shudder Fix doesn’t fix your shudder, you can try installing an upgraded valve that I believe ATRA sells. It’s supposed to fix the 3-4 gear shudder. Or you can contact IPT and describe to them your issue and then you can remove and send your valve body to them and have it reworked to resolve the issue.