"Small Front Lift" question #785

[4Runner4Leon]

I've read lift threads till I'm blue in the face, but haven't found the answer I need - what would you guys suggest I do to raise my '97 4Runner's front to about 22" hub to flare?

I currently have 5th gen springs in the back, which give me the 22" distance I want. I tried Moog's "99 talls" in the front, but that raised the front from 21" to 21.2".

So what can I try to bring the front up about an inch? 5100's with OEM springs? Beefier springs? I'd really like to maintain a good ride quality, as I hardly ever go offroad.

 

[phattyduck]

If you are happy with your current ride quality and you have a bit of droop left before you are limited by your ball joints, get a 3/8" top plate spacer (and extended top plate studs). That'll add the 3/4" you are looking for and get you a bit more suspension droop. Wheeler's has that stuff for pretty cheap.

-Charlie

 

[Dezert4Runner]

Top plate spacer will keep the ride the same as what you have now, but if you don’t want to make your LBJ’s the new bump stop I’d suggest putting those moog springs on some Tundra 5100’s and move it up a clip or two from the bottom or middle clip on the Tacoma/ 4Runner variant. The ride would be a bit former but I other than top plate spacers or body lifts, everything else will affect the ride and make it feel firmer to some degree.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

So something like this? 1/2" Thick Single Strut Top Plate Spacer, for 95-04 Tacoma, 96-02 4Runner, 99-06 Tundra

Can you elaborate a bit on "if you have a bit of droop left before you are limited by your ball joints" and "if you don’t want to make your LBJ’s the new bump stop" - how do I check for the remaining droop and avoid having LBJ's become the bump stop?

 

[Dezert4Runner]

So something like this? 1/2" Thick Single Strut Top Plate Spacer, for 95-04 Tacoma, 96-02 4Runner, 99-06 Tundra

Can you elaborate a bit on "if you have a bit of droop left before you are limited by your ball joints" and "if you don’t want to make your LBJ’s the new bump stop" - how do I check for the remaining droop and avoid having LBJ's become the bump stop?

The stock LCA bump stops are designed to stop travel before your coilovers bottom out which in turn makes your LBJ your new bump stop. I’m not sure what the exact tolerances of a top plate spacer will allow before that happens since you can’t exactly compress the front wheel enough to to see due to the spring rate. You’d have to disassemble the coil and shock and mock up the top plate with the top plate spacer and shock and see if your bump stop is still the first thing to stop travel. Most people aren’t going to go to those lengths to check. I personally wouldn’t run them out of principle based on the above explanation, but lots of people do though so it’s your call.

 

[phattyduck]

So something like this? 1/2" Thick Single Strut Top Plate Spacer, for 95-04 Tacoma, 96-02 4Runner, 99-06 Tundra

Can you elaborate a bit on "if you have a bit of droop left before you are limited by your ball joints" and "if you don’t want to make your LBJ’s the new bump stop" - how do I check for the remaining droop and avoid having LBJ's become the bump stop?

Yeah, though you may want to use the 3/8" spacer (or get the 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 all, as options...)

To check the amount of droop you have left in your ball joints, you need to loosen all the pivot bolts (top long one and each lower adjuster bolt), remove the swaybar connection and the shock lower bolt. Let the knuckle drop. The upper ball joint is the limiter on the stock arms, the lower arm or axle will be the limit on aftermarket upper arms. You will be able to see how much you can space the shock down. You want the shock to limit down travel.

For up travel, you will have to remove the spring from the coilover assembly and lift up that corner of the truck with a jack under the lower arm/ball joint. You need to make sure you have enough compression left in the shock when it is fully compressed so that the bump stops on the arm stop suspension travel before the shock bottoms out. Leave a bit of extra room there for extra bump stop compression that you can't simulate with the static vehicle weight.

Most people aren’t going to go to those lengths to check.

I did, which is how I figured out which spacer I could get away with while running stock arms and 4Runner 5100's...

That's an assembled front shock with no spring and the truck's weight on that corner, stock a-arm bump stops in place and a 3/8" top plate spacer. That was as much spacer as I could run for droop travel, and it was safe in compression.

-Charlie

 

[Dezert4Runner]

I did, which is how I figured out which spacer I could get away with while running stock arms and 4Runner 5100's...

That's an assembled front shock with no spring and the truck's weight on that corner, stock a-arm bump stops in place and a 3/8" top plate spacer. That was as much spacer as I could run for droop travel, and it was safe in compression.

-Charlie

Good stuff Phattyduck. I wonder if there is any minute compression from the LCA bumps and if the extra bit of shock shaft is all usable on compression before it actually limits out. Either way, it’s good to have a visual of it all.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Yeah, though you may want to use the 3/8" spacer (or get the 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 all, as options...)

To check the amount of droop you have left in your ball joints, you need to loosen all the pivot bolts (top long one and each lower adjuster bolt), remove the swaybar connection and the shock lower bolt. Let the knuckle drop. The upper ball joint is the limiter on the stock arms, the lower arm or axle will be the limit on aftermarket upper arms. You will be able to see how much you can space the shock down. You want the shock to limit down travel.

For up travel, you will have to remove the spring from the coilover assembly and lift up that corner of the truck with a jack under the lower arm/ball joint. You need to make sure you have enough compression left in the shock when it is fully compressed so that the bump stops on the arm stop suspension travel before the shock bottoms out. Leave a bit of extra room there for extra bump stop compression that you can't simulate with the static vehicle weight.

I did, which is how I figured out which spacer I could get away with while running stock arms and 4Runner 5100's...

Thanks Charlie, that makes sense. Just curious, why did you go with the top spacer instead of moving up the perch on the 5100? Was it to maintain the original preload on the spring?

 

[4Runner4Leon]

That's an assembled front shock with no spring and the truck's weight on that corner, stock a-arm bump stops in place and a 3/8" top plate spacer. That was as much spacer as I could run for droop travel, and it was safe in compression.

Thinking about all this some more - shouldn't the max allowable spacer size for compression and droop be the same for all stock trucks? Or are there too many subtle differences (I'm guessing I can't just use your results since my stock shock may be different from your 5100)?

 

[phattyduck]

Good stuff Phattyduck. I wonder if there is any minute compression from the LCA bumps and if the extra bit of shock shaft is all usable on compression before it actually limits out. Either way, it’s good to have a visual of it all.

I'd expect there to be some more compression of the bumps with a hard hit - though I am personally never going to try to do that! I don't have much interest in jumping my 4Runner. :becky:

Thanks Charlie, that makes sense. Just curious, why did you go with the top spacer instead of moving up the perch on the 5100? Was it to maintain the original preload on the spring?

I was going for max available travel. The shock itself is spec'd for 4.61" of travel, which could translate to about 9" of wheel travel if everything is perfect.

Thinking about all this some more - shouldn't the max allowable spacer size for compression and droop be the same for all stock trucks? Or are there too many subtle differences (I'm guessing I can't just use your results since my stock shock may be different from your 5100)?

The max spacer is different for each shock design, depending on max length. The OEM shocks are something like 1" shorter than most of the aftermarket stuff. That may be enough of a reason to change to something aftermarket. The Bilstein Tundra front shocks are spec'd for 5.12" of travel, both slightly shorter collapsed (~0.1") and longer extended (~0.4")... Then if you get new upper a-arms, you get more droop... you can see the rabbit hole.

-Charlie

 

[4Runner4Leon]

The max spacer is different for each shock design, depending on max length. The OEM shocks are something like 1" shorter than most of the aftermarket stuff. That may be enough of a reason to change to something aftermarket. The Bilstein Tundra front shocks are spec'd for 5.12" of travel, both slightly shorter collapsed (~0.1") and longer extended (~0.4")... Then if you get new upper a-arms, you get more droop... you can see the rabbit hole.

Thanks Charlie. I'll be making some of these measurements this weekend.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Here is what I came up with - with the control arms pivots loosened, and the shock upper mount still attached to the spring perch, the control arm droops about 0.7" further than the max shock extension:

So that suggests that a 3/8" spacer would still leave ~3/8" droop.

As for compression, I removed the spring and jacked the LCA until the truck lifted off the jackstand:

I then pushed down on the shock, to get it fully compressed, and there was over an inch gap between the top of the shock mount and the bottom of the spring perch (the two orange lines):

So again, a 3/8" spacer should be fine based on this. Right?

I noticed a couple of weird things when doing this: one, I could easily move the LCA up and down without loosening the lower pivot bolts at all. Two, if I compressed the shock and then let it go, it extended very slowly, maybe 10-20 seconds to extend fully. Is that normal for these trucks?

 

[calnhob]

Hey Leon,

It shouldn't take 10-20 secs for the shock to extend back..that's too long. It'll should be around 5-7sec if I remember correctly.

I had this setup and got around 22.5" 5100 on first perch with 5th gen TRD off road springs.

The 5th gen springs are about the same length as the 3rd stock ones but are thicker.

Wei

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Hey Leon,

It shouldn't take 10-20 secs for the shock to extend back..that's too long. It'll should be around 5-7sec if I remember correctly.

I had this setup and got around 22.5" 5100 on first perch with 5th gen TRD off road springs.

The 5th gen springs are about the same length as the 3rd stock ones but are thicker.

Wei

Thanks Wei! I don't think I want to be as high as 22.5", so I might just go with the spacer and keep my original springs... and maybe get new shocks, if I need them based on the slow extension. Here's a clip of my shock extending, I was doing this one handed to it was already moving when I started filming, and still takes about 18 sec. So does that mean the shock is shot?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oAHv38RhAFI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And what about this control arm movement? I'm moving it up and down by hand, with the pivot bolts fully tightened.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TxoyRfQrLLk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[calnhob]

when I click on the video it says the video is private...you afraid to share with me?

Thanks Wei! I don't think I want to be as high as 22.5", so I might just go with the spacer and keep my original springs... and maybe get new shocks, if I need them based on the slow extension. Here's a clip of my shock extending, I was doing this one handed to it was already moving when I started filming, and still takes about 18 sec. So does that mean the shock is shot?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oAHv38RhAFI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And what about this control arm movement? I'm moving it up and down by hand, with the pivot bolts fully tightened.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TxoyRfQrLLk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[calnhob]

Hope this helps, tested the time on my parts collection.

OEM might be the original one on the truck with 214k when I replaced it. BS 5100 for 3rd gen has less than 2 years on it.

Also my LCA moved the same way on both sides when I was adjusting the perch on the 5100 so it doesn't seem out of whack.

 

[phattyduck]

So again, a 3/8" spacer should be fine based on this. Right?

On that shock, you could use a full 1/2" spacer (~1 inch lift). You will need extended studs for the top plate/mount.

-Charlie

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Hope this helps, tested the time on my parts collection.

OEM might be the original one on the truck with 214k when I replaced it. BS 5100 for 3rd gen has less than 2 years on it.

Wow, that's way faster than mine. Time for new shocks I guess!

Also my LCA moved the same way on both sides when I was adjusting the perch on the 5100 so it doesn't seem out of whack.

Good to know, that's a relief. Thanks Wei!

 

[4Runner4Leon]

On that shock, you could use a full 1/2" spacer (~1 inch lift). You will need extended studs for the top plate/mount.

-Charlie

Thanks for confirming Charlie! I went ahead and ordered the 1/2" spacers, but will check this again since I also ordered new shocks.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Put in the 1/2" top plate spacers today, along with new shocks.

I went with KYB KG9025 Gas-a-Just shocks, basic OEM replacement. Here they are side by side:

The new shocks extend much faster than my old ones did, for what it's worth.

To install the top spacers, I replaced the original top plate studs with longer studs:

Here is the shock assembly with the spacer on top:

I double checked droop and full compression, and found that I have margin at each end of travel.

After driving around the block, I rechecked the hub to flare distance - it went from 21.25" to about 22.75", a bit more than I planned for. Hopefully it'll settle in a bit after driving some more (otherwise I'm going to have to raise the rear to make it level, not sure how my wife is going to like that). Here's a comp photo: