So has anyone ditched the cartrige engine oil filter for a canister?

The stock system has by far the most engineering and real world testing hours into it. Why would you switch to something else? Besides saving you a few minutes every 5 to 10k miles, trying to improve the system will lead to: A) failure, or B) a slightly improved system which is pointless because you will want some other vehicle 30 years from now.
 
The stock system has by far the most engineering and real world testing hours into it. Why would you switch to something else? Besides saving you a few minutes every 5 to 10k miles, trying to improve the system will lead to: A) failure, or B) a slightly improved system which is pointless because you will want some other vehicle 30 years from now.
Why do anything?
I have talked at length with engineers from Toyota as well as engineers from other manufacturers and they offer that if they had a blank check to develop for the general public their vision for engines and peripheral components that can be added, vehicles that made it to market would look and perform differently. That is why these manufacturers attend and display at the SEMA show every year in Las Vegas.
Last year Toyota displayed several vehicles with aftermarket performance additions including their own. The ability to tap into their oil system and add additional components such as coolers, catch cans, accumulators, remote filters or direct to spin-on adapters is something these guys understand. Understand, the applied engineering is only as good as the money and marketing that supports it. The basic Toyota filter is good enough but if the engineers had it their way, Toyota would only sell TRD style filter that has it's own perforated internal tube support and resilient seals.
I offered my conversion because some people want it and until Baxter Performance was able to engineer something that could tap into the cartridge filter system, peripheral devices could not be utilized. The use of cartridge filters was driven by management, engineers had to develop the system to comply.
 
Oh, I know why people like to change things, trust me. You want the truth?

People want "special." If there are three hundred blue ones then somebody is gonna paint one black. I totally understand the cosmetic and "form" aspect of individuality.

Now where people get in trouble is "fixing" the "function" aspect lol. In any enthusiasts forum on ANYTHING, there are guys who think they are smarter than the design, marketing, engineering and manufacturing guys at any given OEM, or are just too dumb and lazy to figure out what the OEM guys really did in their designs and marketing. You know what though? There usually IS a guy or two (not 10, not 50 and definitely not 100) who actually has a "better idea" and that's why the engineers and marketing guys go to shows and forums. The vast majority of true "mods" (actual functional changes, not floor mats or window tint) that are done in the various driveways across America only give the OEM engineers something to laugh about on their trips home. The "best" (worst?) ones immediately become legends and will be repeated in break rooms, cubicles and at water coolers throughout the OEM world. The best ones however get added to the vehicle!

Case in point: Wheel spacers. Many guys choose to run them to "improve" the "stance" of the 4Runner. In their minds moving the wheels out makes their ride look "tougher" and more "trail ready." Some guys do it because they think it will add lateral stability to their vehicles. It does... in extremely specific situations and even then only adds a miniscule amount, kinda like unloading the groceries and touting horsepower gains amounts.
I have been reading posts here for four years and read many posts on axle failures. Somehow I must have missed the failures that occurred on stock vehicles as most have failed on vehicles with wheel spacers or higher offset wheels. Sure, it could be they failed because those guys "wheeled" harder than the stock vehicles but would they have failed if they would have kept the stock offset and no wheel spacers? And then some are mad when the bearings fail? Anyone with half a brain and a rudimentary knowledge of simple loads will know they are loading heavier than the initial design.

I do not mean to pick on the guys who do these mods. Seriously, and I know they DO look "cooler" and more "rugged." Is it worth it? How many guys come here who know nothing about anything, see a picture or read about a mod and do it because somebody else did. Then they get pissed when something screws up. I just used the wheel spacers as an example because there are cases where spacers and higher offsets are used that have not resulted in failures. I can guarantee you every single one who does will have a shorter bearing life than a stock vehicle though. To some people, the deem it important enough of a mod to do it even though it could shorten bearing life and I applaud them for doing it and going in with "eyes wide open" because this is how innovations are created. Most are not like that though.

Converting your engine to run a spin on filter can of course be done. There are several guys here who could do it and do it correctly. However, just thinking that all you need to do is machine an adapter and that's it is pretty much like saying "Here, hold my beer and watch this." In order not to mess something up you need to EXACTLY re create the OEM canister performance with your spin on mod. If you can't do that then it will be a "bad idea mod."

There are some sharp guys here. There are also some "not so sharp" guys here who will get butthurt over this post, thinking it was directed at them. As some of you know I really don't care. I just try to open eyes.

Well said.
 
I installed a remote system on 5.7 Tundra. 300psi 5/8"ID internally braided hose with anodized AN fittings. Also, a remote sump drain with a quick disconnect hydraulic fitting that allows me to drain the oil via vacuum tank. No skid plates to remove and I'm good with that. But I have been modifying engines and related systems for a long time on both aircraft and cars, I'm comfortable with what I do, It's not for everyone.

That's badass, man. Very professional looking install.
 
It seems like there are some really knowledgeable people on this thread. Could anyone explain why Toyota went with this style of filter? To me it seems over complicated and over engineered, requiring special parts for maintenance all to fix a system that wasn't broken. These kind of things are the exact reason I will never buy a European car, and I was really disappointed to find it on my Toyota truck.
 
Just a couple of observations;

My 67 Camaro and other early Chevrolet small blocks have the same type filter. Mine is converted to a spin-on and it is a very popular modification for these engines. The canister o-ring is the trouble spot.

The design is centered around the new re-design of the engine, with the oil filter being a last thought, except to make the average 4runner owner take the truck into the shop for an oil change. The engine oil and transmission fluid are two of the most common DIY maintenance items, neither are easy on this vehicle.

Toyota is smart. I for one think that there is no coincidence to the oil/tranny fluid change difficulty compared to other vehicles. It seems to be their way of
1- Protecting their brand and warranty issues (2 free oil changes that are not really free)
2- Where else are you going to buy a cartridge filter in your town? (Hint..... Toyota dealer)
3- Even folks with DIY skills and tools will take their vehicle in to get it done vs. the hassle of dropping the skid plate etc. This is pure genius on Toyota's part. How many "other" items get diagnosed / repaired during this visit? The service department is the big money maker for any dealership.

Also of note is the location of the oil filter under the skid plate. Pretty nice to know that the filter is not exposed during off-road excursions.

I have thought about an access plate to the filter (kind of like the oil drain plug) and a spin on filter. It is just a matter time. Once the small block chevy adapter came out it flew off the shelves.

The only advantage I see of the canister filter is being able to inspect it easily after removal.
 
Just a couple of observations;

My 67 Camaro and other early Chevrolet small blocks have the same type filter. Mine is converted to a spin-on and it is a very popular modification for these engines. The canister o-ring is the trouble spot.

The design is centered around the new re-design of the engine, with the oil filter being a last thought, except to make the average 4runner owner take the truck into the shop for an oil change. The engine oil and transmission fluid are two of the most common DIY maintenance items, neither are easy on this vehicle.

Toyota is smart. I for one think that there is no coincidence to the oil/tranny fluid change difficulty compared to other vehicles. It seems to be their way of
1- Protecting their brand and warranty issues (2 free oil changes that are not really free)
2- Where else are you going to buy a cartridge filter in your town? (Hint..... Toyota dealer)
3- Even folks with DIY skills and tools will take their vehicle in to get it done vs. the hassle of dropping the skid plate etc. This is pure genius on Toyota's part. How many "other" items get diagnosed / repaired during this visit? The service department is the big money maker for any dealership.

Also of note is the location of the oil filter under the skid plate. Pretty nice to know that the filter is not exposed during off-road excursions.

I have thought about an access plate to the filter (kind of like the oil drain plug) and a spin on filter. It is just a matter time. Once the small block chevy adapter came out it flew off the shelves.

The only advantage I see of the canister filter is being able to inspect it easily after removal.

Dude.

You know nothing about which you speak.
Oil filtration and location is NOT the last thought of the engineers. It is a key point in the design.
The location is predicated on the engine design and interface with the vehicle, nothing more or less.
Right now there are less than 11% of vehicle owners that continue to change their own oil and that trend is going steadily down, regardless of oil filter location. Most people simply don't want to change their oil anymore and it's not because of difficulty in the actual act. Conspiracy theory much?


I have written and linked several posts and articles throughout the years on the ADVANTAGES of cartridge versus the spin on filters. Better filter media, higher pressure, more dirt holding capacity, etc. Do a search and learn a few things.

Inspect it after removal? What... with your eyes? The particles that will damage your engine are too small to see from a few feet away with your naked eye and most are embedded in the filter media. Now if you have a microscope and are willing to dissect the filter then have at it.

Lastly, you can buy the element at many places besides the Toyota dealer.
 
Please check the information for yourself, but as I stated before the filter changes have not to improve the oil system. There has been a big push to eliminate the metal filters because of waste. i have watched the change to the old/new paper filters in all types of vehicle because of the push of the government. I have a close friend who is a Toyota tech and he says they do not even use the drain because it so easy to twist the o-ring and have a leak. My two main concerns with changing the system is if I have some type of engine problem Toyota will try to blame it on the filter adapter. I would like to know that the adapter could not back off while driving or during filter changes. Here is an article from an oil change trade publication.
Canister vs. Cartridge | National Oil and Lube News
 
Dude.

You know nothing about which you speak.
Oil filtration and location is NOT the last thought of the engineers. It is a key point in the design.
The location is predicated on the engine design and interface with the vehicle, nothing more or less.
Right now there are less than 11% of vehicle owners that continue to change their own oil and that trend is going steadily down, regardless of oil filter location. Most people simply don't want to change their oil anymore and it's not because of difficulty in the actual act. Conspiracy theory much?


I have written and linked several posts and articles throughout the years on the ADVANTAGES of cartridge versus the spin on filters. Better filter media, higher pressure, more dirt holding capacity, etc. Do a search and learn a few things.

Inspect it after removal? What... with your eyes? The particles that will damage your engine are too small to see from a few feet away with your naked eye and most are embedded in the filter media. Now if you have a microscope and are willing to dissect the filter then have at it.

Lastly, you can buy the element at many places besides the Toyota dealer.

Let me start by saying that you are a very informative and educated member of this forum, who's opinions and research is highly regarded.... thank you.

Everyone has their opinion and I have mine. I will not go into my credentials on oil analysis, engine building etc. Nor do I wish to argue. But to say that I know nothing about which I speak just shows ignorance, engineer or not.

Why wouldn't I take the filter apart and analyze it? I have also done the same with canister filters.

I would also bet that particles that I can see with my naked eye will damage the engine internally. It will also give an indication of something wrong.

The filter was in fact moved to its current location due to the redesign of the 1GR-FE Dual Variable Valve Timing-Intelligent system, so it was not the first thought of the engineers.

Just like I am sure that you have interviewed all of the vehicle drivers in the world and after months of calculations you came up with the 11% figure. After all, I am sure that you did actually gather the data before posting that correct?

Thanks for all of your input to this forum, but folks can disagree without claiming the other one knows nothing.
 
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Please check the information for yourself, but as I stated before the filter changes have not to improve the oil system. There has been a big push to eliminate the metal filters because of waste. i have watched the change to the old/new paper filters in all types of vehicle because of the push of the government. I have a close friend who is a Toyota tech and he says they do not even use the drain because it so easy to twist the o-ring and have a leak. My two main concerns with changing the system is if I have some type of engine problem Toyota will try to blame it on the filter adapter. I would like to know that the adapter could not back off while driving or during filter changes. Here is an article from an oil change trade publication.
Canister vs. Cartridge | National Oil and Lube News

I agree that a canister is a better design than a cartridge from an ease of installation & service point of view, but that doesn't mean the cartridge is a bad design; when serviced properly, it performs about as well as a canister and is far less wasteful. Look, I don't like the government having a hand in how my car is designed anymore than you do, but this is the world we live in. I trust Toyota to have created a system that works well within the constraints of the mandates they were given, and that's good enough for me.
 
I agree that a canister is a better design than a cartridge from an ease of installation & service point of view, but that doesn't mean the cartridge is a bad design; when serviced properly, it performs about as well as a canister and is far less wasteful. Look, I don't like the government having a hand in how my car is designed anymore than you do, but this is the world we live in. I trust Toyota to have created a system that works well within the constraints of the mandates they were given, and that's good enough for me.

That article does not have any useful information. There is no government mandate to ban canister filters. i don't get the big deal anyway, steel is not valuable and is highly recyclable. The problem of an oil soaked filter going to the landfill is not solved by a cartridge design.
 
What problem are we trying to solve here?

If saving a few minutes a couple times a year is worth changing a proven design and potentially creating warranty headaches down the road by all means, knock your self out.
 
What problem are we trying to solve here?

If saving a few minutes a couple times a year is worth changing a proven design and potentially creating warranty headaches down the road by all means, knock your self out.

It's true that installing an adapter is probably not worth the time or money. But I'm asking the same question of Toyota. Why switch from a simple and proven canister design? There must be a reason, but I can't find it. The arguement that it is for environmental reasons does not add up.
 
That article does not have any useful information. There is no government mandate to ban canister filters. i don't get the big deal anyway, steel is not valuable and is highly recyclable. The problem of an oil soaked filter going to the landfill is not solved by a cartridge design.

It's true that installing an adapter is probably not worth the time or money. But I'm asking the same question of Toyota. Why switch from a simple and proven canister design? There must be a reason, but I can't find it. The arguement that it is for environmental reasons does not add up.

Not sure what to tell you, but as someone who knows quite a bit about Japanese culture (my wife is Japanese, and we regularly travel to Japan) the one thing I will say is that government mandates or not, the Japanese are all about efficiency, and environmental concerns are a hot button in Japan right now. Regardless of the reason why, Toyota chose to go with this design, and until we start seeing threads about engine failures as a result, I don't think we need to be concerned about this.
 
The shortcomings of the stock Toyota cartridge filter design and other cheap cartridge filters.
• No internal support over the length of the filter.
• Hard plastic seals or lack thereof.
Upon installation of the cheaper filter design, the new filter media is installed over a perforated guide tube that is spring loaded and attached to the filter housing cap. When the cap is fully installed, the guide tube has approximately 1/16” to travel before it bottoms out. After the filter media is exposed to hot motor oil, this media begins to collapse over time, the guide tube bottoms out and spring pressure is no longer providing pressure on the plastic seals and allowing non-filtered oil to blow-by. The filter sealing surfaces of the engine oil filter housing are not smooth and require a resilient seal to prevent oil blow-by.
So, the answer is to step up to higher quality filters such as some of the Toyota TRD line of filters as well as other manufacturers that incorporate an internal perforated tube and resilient seals. You get what you pay for.
 

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