so my truck is in the shop. questions..

[save_alkaline]

i just had my timing belt replaced (see this thread) to avoid these very problems.

so i'm sitting at a stop light this morning when the idle just suddenly got all rough and the truck lost all power. it was everything i could do to get it to go around the corner to get it off the main road. it would stay idling, roughly, for a minute until it just sputtered out and died. when the tow truck came, i was able to start it back up (same idling issue, same severe loss of power) get it in reverse and back it up. when i tried to go forward again, it died. it barely started again after that, but did and i was able to pull it up a little then shut it off so it could make it's way onto the flatbed.

so, now it's back at the shop and i told them it felt like the belt they just replaced had slipped. i'm not sure what else it could be, an ECU or something maybe? but i didn't have a check engine light or anything. it just lost all power. has anyone seen this before? think i'll be footing another hefty bill or do you think it's related to the timing belt?

i'm stuck renting a crappy corolla for $35 / day unless it turns out to be toyotas fault, in which case they will cover that bill as well.

oh and the fact that the V8 is an interference engine has me even more worried about the repercussions.

 

[eskimochaos]

i just had my timing belt replaced (see this thread) to avoid these very problems.

so i'm sitting at a stop light this morning when the idle just suddenly got all rough and the truck lost all power. it was everything i could do to get it to go around the corner to get it off the main road. it would stay idling, roughly, for a minute until it just sputtered out and died. when the tow truck came, i was able to start it back up (same idling issue, same severe loss of power) get it in reverse and back it up. when i tried to go forward again, it died. it barely started again after that, but did and i was able to pull it up a little then shut it off so it could make it's way onto the flatbed.

so, now it's back at the shop and i told them it felt like the belt they just replaced had slipped. i'm not sure what else it could be, an ECU or something maybe? but i didn't have a check engine light or anything. it just lost all power. has anyone seen this before? think i'll be footing another hefty bill or do you think it's related to the timing belt?

i'm stuck renting a crappy corolla for $35 / day unless it turns out to be toyotas fault, in which case they will cover that bill as well.

oh and the fact that the V8 is an interference engine has me even more worried about the repercussions.

How many miles? Sounds like a coilpack, a normal failure around 100k. Causes exact symptoms you describe. There is a coilpack for each one of the cylinders.

Inexpensive to fix. Keep us posted.

 

[save_alkaline]

oh yeah, i could see that i guess. and i'm at 116k. i hope that's all it is. too bad i would have to shell out the cash for the tow and the rental. the coil pack wouldn't cause a CEL?

 

[phishtaco]

Just curious to which dealer you have it had in Cincy?

 

[save_alkaline]

beechmont toyota. it's who i bought it from as well.

 

[save_alkaline]

well, i got the call on my way home from work.

in his exact words, "something has gone awry behind the timing belt cover". they don't know what it is yet as they have to tear it all apart... again. hopefully i will know tomorrow. he said something about possibly being the cam or some seal or something.. i don't know. all i know is if they try to find a way to stick the bill on me, i'm going to be pissed. that was an expensive job i had done to avoid this very situation. if there were other things that needed to be replaced while they were in there, they should have done it, right? it's not like the general consumer knows what all is in there and what all needs to be replaced. and if my timing did get messed up, will my engine even survive?

this sucks. and have i mentioned how much i hate corollas?

 

[riverider]

well, i got the call on my way home from work.

in his exact words, "something has gone awry behind the timing belt cover". they don't know what it is yet as they have to tear it all apart... again. hopefully i will know tomorrow. he said something about possibly being the cam or some seal or something.. i don't know. all i know is if they try to find a way to stick the bill on me, i'm going to be pissed. that was an expensive job i had done to avoid this very situation. if there were other things that needed to be replaced while they were in there, they should have done it, right? it's not like the general consumer knows what all is in there and what all needs to be replaced. and if my timing did get messed up, will my engine even survive?

this sucks. and have i mentioned how much i hate corollas?

Seems like this service Dept. is doing their on job training at your expense. Keep us informed, and be thinking of getting some legal advice.

 

[DaBoostCreep]

I hope this works out okay for you.

Do not hesitate to lay into the dealer if they even begin to say they arent responsible. A timing belt slipping is a misnomer. Its got ribs on it to make sure it doesnt happen. If it slipped its because they didnt replace the tensioner or something.

Best of luck.

 

[save_alkaline]

thanks, guys. gotta say, i'm a little worried about what's going to happen next and how they're going to handle it. just have to see what happens, i suppose. i'll keep you posted.

 

[save_alkaline]

got the other call and it didn't go half bad. i was right and the belt did slip. what happened was the tensioner went bad and let it go just a little. the first thing they did was put it back on to make sure the engine wasn't hurt. apparently everything seems normal. i guess since i was idling when it happened it didn't have a chance to bend any valves or anything. (does this sound right?)

so basically, they are covering all the costs, a new belt and my rental car. i will have to pay for the new tensioner and related bolts and things at about $200. the parts are on order but it sounds like it will be a couple more days before i get my truck. the reasoning was that they did not offer those parts to me but had they offered them, i likely would have accepted. everything else they offered, i took without question.

i was sick from the anxiety of getting that call but i'm pretty happy with the outcome of it. i just hope the engine is fine and still runs like it did prior to this.

 

[DaBoostCreep]

Here's my take on things.

You're first off being lied to about the engine not being damaged because of it idleing. An interference motor will make contact and damage even if turned over by hand with a socket and ratchet...there is no way around it.

Sounds like it didnt skip enough teeth to get to that point.

Here's my problem. The tensioner should be replaced everytime a belt is replaced for reasons exactly like this. If the engine is truly okay, the dealership is getting off really easy. I can't imagine a dealership not REQUIRING the tensioner be replaced.

If it were me, I'd push for all related repairs be covered by the dealer. If they even hesitiate, I'd call Toyota Care and explain to them that you had the work done, weren't offered and didnt have the tensioner replaced. Rental car covered or not they neglected to do the job right. They can eat the $200 tensioner and associated small parts.

 

[save_alkaline]

Here's my take on things.

You're first off being lied to about the engine not being damaged because of it idleing. An interference motor will make contact and damage even if turned over by hand with a socket and ratchet...there is no way around it.

Sounds like it didnt skip enough teeth to get to that point.

Here's my problem. The tensioner should be replaced everytime a belt is replaced for reasons exactly like this. If the engine is truly okay, the dealership is getting off really easy. I can't imagine a dealership not REQUIRING the tensioner be replaced.

If it were me, I'd push for all related repairs be covered by the dealer. If they even hesitiate, I'd call Toyota Care and explain to them that you had the work done, weren't offered and didnt have the tensioner replaced. Rental car covered or not they neglected to do the job right. They can eat the $200 tensioner and associated small parts.

that makes more sense about not skipping enough teeth. the low idle didn't really (which is why i asked) but if didn't jump enough to get things too out of alignment then i can see it.

i said the exact same thing. i've replaced timing belts in some of my other cars (namely a VR6 corrado which has a tensioner that sounds similar to what he described with this one) and there's no way i would do that job and not include the tensioner. i even told him that i'm paying to have such a job done to give myself another 90k miles of worry free driving. if something like a tensioner gives, that work is negated as is what happened in this case. his response was basically to the effect of 'if they pushed all the other components they would have a bunch of customers complaining about unnecessary work' which i can sort of see but at the same time i would have preferred to have the option. for me, the lesson learned is to know what all is going on in there before getting the job done and requesting to have it inspected if not just jumping right to having it replaced.

at this point, i'm honestly ecstatic to not be calling my lawyers about making a case for a new engine, haha.

 

[riverider]

I don't buy the bad tensioner excuse,but if you are that's all that matters. Myself I feel their service Dept. is incompetent and I would never ever trust them again. My question is did they not inspect the tensioner when replacing the timing belt? If not then they are to blame for not finding it when they were doing the work.

I hope your engine did not obtain any valve damage, I would not expect them people at that dealership to tell the truth about it.

Keep us informed as to how the engine is working after a few hundred miles.

 

[DaBoostCreep]

his response was basically to the effect of 'if they pushed all the other components they would have a bunch of customers complaining about unnecessary work

That right there is the biggest BS ever. Dealerships make their money off of up-sells.

When you had them do the belt I'm sure they did the water pump too....why? Because its behind the timing cover and it only makes sense to do it as they're prone to failure in the 100k region. The timing belt tensioner is the same thing...replace the belt, but not what keeps the new belt under tension?

Id much rather have a water pump fail, than a timing belt tensioner.

I say lay into this dealership and don't pay a penny. If they try to get you to pay for anything CALL TOYOTA CARE. Tell them whats going on and that they will lose you as a customer forever. Tell the dealership if they don't resolve it free of charge you're going to be contacting a lawyer and they'll be spending alot more money on defending themselves than the parts and labor cost to fix it.

BTW....after you get it back take the vehicle somewhere and get a leakdown test done. This will help identify if there is a valve thats not sealing right but isnt enough to set a CEL or run bad.

 

[charlier180]

First of all, $200 for a tensioner seems HIGH to me. Almost sounds like they are also hitting you with the labor and other costs.

Second, as the owner of an interference engine (VW) for the last 22+ years I can say that 98% of the time a timing belt failure is caused by a TENSIONER.

I guess replacing the tensioner in a Toyota must be a big deal and an expensive part. I know for my VW engine the OEM tensioner is < $25.
Once the belt is off, it takes maybe 30 seconds to replace the tensioner.

Not replacing a tensioner when a timing belt is replaced is something a technician should NEVER, EVER do unless they are specifically instructed not to do so by the customer. I my mind, not replacing a tensioner when replacing a timing belt is like changing the oil in a vehicle but not the oil filter. It might save you a few dollars now, but it will eventually cost you 100s if not 1000s of dollars later.

FYI, when it comes to VW interference engines, valve damage when a timing belt breaks can happen at idle or when actively driving. In either case, it is rare that damage is not done when a VW timing belt breaks.

BTW, when the timing belt was changed in my VW last year it was just in the nick of time. I put VERY few miles on that VW so the belt/tensioner gets changed based on time in service. I failed to keep track of the time the belt/tensioner was in service. Lets just say the tensioner was getting VERY HARD to spin when it was replaced. It was not much longer before it would have seized up and my engine would have been toast.

Personally, If I were the original poster I would start looking around for a new place to service my Toyota.
One has to wonder what other serivce procedures at this dealership are being short-changed in order to "save the customers some money".

 

[DaBoostCreep]

update?

 

[save_alkaline]

update - i'm still in the loaner. i guess there's a bolt / washer that they need which isn't even in the region. so it took them a couple days to get it. it was supposed to be done today but the tech is out sick and since it's torn apart they want him to finish it. so it's looking like monday at this point. another few days in the corolla.

is it fair to ask for a leakdown test (proper term) and results? is that something they can do / show me?

 

[riverider]

update - i'm still in the loaner. i guess there's a bolt / washer that they need which isn't even in the region. so it took them a couple days to get it. it was supposed to be done today but the tech is out sick and since it's torn apart they want him to finish it. so it's looking like monday at this point. another few days in the corolla.

is it fair to ask for a leakdown test (proper term) and results? is that something they can do / show me?

Well you can ask them but I am betting they won't agree to do anything. Your going to have to keep close tabs on how your engine is running.

That dealer and it's service Dept. sure has a lot of problems. Keep us informed about any progress.

 

[save_alkaline]

i just called to ask about that and he said he'll see what he can do but he's not sure that it will show anything. he went on to say that the 'beautiful thing' about these is that if there is a problem it will throw a code right away. i again said, that's fine but i would feel better if i could get the compression test done. he said the tech is confident the engine is fine and if i wanted to take it somewhere and get a second opinion that they would have no problems with it. i told him that essentially i was going to get the compression test done just for my own peace of mind and that since they had it, i would appreciate it if they were able to do it. he said, if he can get his manager to approve it, he will do that. ugghh.. but i also asked if i have problems with it, can i bring it back to them. he 'reminded me' that they didn't cause the part to fail but they 'certainly want to take care of me' (as far as what that would entail.. i have no idea). they recognize that if they had offered the part, none of this would ever have happened.

i'm just hoping they're right and all is well. we'll see whenever it gets finished, i guess. after this fiasco, it's not real likely that i will be back there.

i sure am glad it's friday.

 

[tomhaney1]

I say lay into this dealership and don't pay a penny. If they try to get you to pay for anything CALL TOYOTA CARE. Tell them whats going on and that they will lose you as a customer forever. Tell the dealership if they don't resolve it free of charge you're going to be contacting a lawyer and they'll be spending alot more money on defending themselves than the parts and labor cost to fix it.

BTW....after you get it back take the vehicle somewhere and get a leakdown test done. This will help identify if there is a valve thats not sealing right but isnt enough to set a CEL or run bad.

X2. That should have been replaced with the belt. They go bad just as quickly. Either they cut corners or took your money and didn't finish the job. Either way, make them do it right this time. Never ask in these situations, demand and threaten.