So while I'm stranded...

[jfry008]

I would venture to say that whatever happened could be related to the water pump replacement, since the serpentine belt is driven by the crank pulley which spins the alternator pulley and water pump pulley.
Some idiot may have overtightened your belt...just seems too much of a coincidence that this happens right after the maintenance was done..but they kinda have you by the balls so to speak.
The stealership knows you cant prove they're at fault, but hopefully whoever works on your car correctly diagnoses your problem and doesn't just throw parts at it.
This could get pricey quick

 

[sdevine42]

Agreed. It just seems strange. I feel like I would have gotten some indications if it was the alternator - no trouble starting the vehicle, no power issues with lights/radio/etc., just all of a sudden belt slip and smoking.

 

[nevada]

Sorry for dropping off but it was an interesting trip trying to get the family and 4R from Dothan, AL back to Atlanta and my phone was totally dead.

I added some pictures of the aftermath, saying it was reddish was probably not accurate as I look back at the pics. The PS fluid level was unchanged, as was the brake fluid level.

The engine oil was fresh M1 synthetic with about 500 miles on it.

when were those pics taken? prior to the dealership checking it?

 

[sdevine42]

when were those pics taken? prior to the dealership checking it?

Yes. While waiting for the tow truck.

 

[nevada]

trying to make sense of what im seeing.

that uses just a single serpentine belt, yes?

it is clearly no longer on the AC compressor, and I can see the belt laying down in front of the compressor.
though, it looks to still be on the PS pump, and missing a rib.

that doesn't make any sense.

 

[gm350reratliff]

I don't buy that explanation. I would make them show you the alternator and see if it spins. If it spins then no way that makes sense, even if electronically it did fail. I would even be surprised if the alternator did seize, that it would cause the crank seal to fail, it would simply snap or smoke the belt right off. I would also check that the water pump spins freely if that's their logic. I've had a few alternators seize while on the freeway (former GM guy here) and I've never had one cause the crank seal to fail. For that to happen, the crank would have to move in order for the seal to fail, and unless the bearings are bad, the crank isn't going anywhere.

Unfortunately, they have you in a tough spot but don't hesitate to ask them some tough questions and ask for them to show you.

EDIT- A seal can let go at anytime, for no reason. It's been a while but I think the crank seal went out on someone else here a while back. At least from reading on here and a few other sites, this isn't a very common issue.

 

[sdevine42]

trying to make sense of what im seeing.

that uses just a single serpentine belt, yes?

it is clearly no longer on the AC compressor, and I can see the belt laying down in front of the compressor.
though, it looks to still be on the PS pump, and missing a rib.

that doesn't make any sense.

Honestly, as far as I know it's just the single belt, but honestly I'm not sure exactly what that setup should look like. The belt was tight when I gave it a pull. Are you saying that it doesn't look like it is positioned correctly? The dealer took that belt off last week to replace the water pump.

 

[sdevine42]

I don't buy that explanation. I would make them show you the alternator and see if it spins. If it spins then no way that makes sense, even if electronically it did fail. I would even be surprised if the alternator did seize, that it would cause the crank seal to fail, it would simply snap or smoke the belt right off. I would also check that the water pump spins freely if that's their logic. I've had a few alternators seize while on the freeway (former GM guy here) and I've never had one cause the crank seal to fail. For that to happen, the crank would have to move in order for the seal to fail, and unless the bearings are bad, the crank isn't going anywhere.

Unfortunately, they have you in a tough spot but don't hesitate to ask them some tough questions and ask for them to show you.

EDIT- A seal can let go at anytime, for no reason. It's been a while but I think the crank seal went out on someone else here a while back. At least from reading on here and a few other sites, this isn't a very common issue.

Yeah they have the truck now, but I haven't let them start working on it b/c I don't feel completely comfortable that I know what happened. I'm not opposed to asking them tough questions, but when they inevitably give me a confident answer that contradicts me I don't really have the working knowledge to contest it.

 

[nevada]

Honestly, as far as I know it's just the single belt, but honestly I'm not sure exactly what that setup should look like. The belt was tight when I gave it a pull. Are you saying that it doesn't look like it is positioned correctly? The dealer took that belt off last week to replace the water pump.

PS pump must use a separate belt then.
but, when I looked it up, it only lists one belt, that covers all the pulleys.

but, in that picture, there is no belt on the AC compressor. and what looks like a belt just laying down there, not connected to anything.

 

[sdevine42]

PS pump must use a separate belt then.
but, when I looked it up, it only lists one belt, that covers all the pulleys.

but, in that picture, there is no belt on the AC compressor. and what looks like a belt just laying down there, not connected to anything.

I believe this is the setup for the V6 (1GR-FE):

Courtesy of this thread that I bookmarked with the plan to change the serpentine belt in the coming weeks - http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...ging-serpentine-belts-v6-1gr-fe-4runners.html

 

[nevada]

I believe this is the setup for the V6 (1GR-FE):

Courtesy of this thread that I bookmarked with the plan to change the serpentine belt in the coming weeks - http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...ging-serpentine-belts-v6-1gr-fe-4runners.html

yep, one belt.
that is the same diagram I found.


looking at it again, I can see that there IS in fact a belt on the AC compressor. it was just at that angle, it was difficult to see.

though, it does look like a piece of a belt is just laying there. strange.


as to your original problem, I also find their diagnosis hard to believe. usually it will just peel the belt off, or even smoke it. its unlikely that caused the seal to fail.

 

[sdevine42]

I really appreciate all the help guys, I'm going over to the dealer after work today and have them show me what they're describing. Any last minute advice is greatly appreciated.

As mentioned, I don't really have a lot of alternatives other than go with what they say and let them replace the alternator, crank shaft seal, and obviously the serp belt.

What are the chances the A/C compressor/system is unharmed since the A/C light was blinking and the cold air stopped? Would that situation happen if the theory they propose occurred?

I really worry that once I let them do these repairs, we're going down the rabbit hole of other things and they realize that the alternator was more a result of the event rather than the cause of it....
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] , if you have any advice on whether my concerns are realistic or how to approach the dealer, I would be eternally grateful.

 

[Dpassmore]

I was a service advisor for 10 years. Few dealerships are going to let that ever make to court because even if they know they are in the right, the bad publicity and likelihood of not winning is not worth it.
For the serpentine belt to cause damage to a seal that is behind the timing belt and not damage the timing belt in the process is highly improbable.
They were just in there and it looks bad on them, not you. Especially if they did not recommend replacing the seal the first time. In fact, you have them, not the other way around.


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[sdevine42]

I was a service advisor for 10 years. Few dealerships are going to let that ever make to court because even if they know they are in the right, the bad publicity and likelihood of not winning is not worth it.
For the serpentine belt to cause damage to a seal that is behind the timing belt and not damage the timing belt in the process is highly improbable.
They were just in there and it looks bad on them, not you. Especially if they did not recommend replacing the seal the first time. In fact, you have them, not the other way around.


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This is a V6 so it has the timing chain, which I imagine is a little more resilient. Are you recommending that I threaten to take them to small claims court, b/c I don't think that's a path I really want to take...

 

[ChrisLovesUgly]

This is a V6 so it has the timing chain, which I imagine is a little more resilient. Are you recommending that I threaten to take them to small claims court, b/c I don't think that's a path I really want to take...

No, I think he's suggesting that you have the upper hand, but you need to approach it that way from the beginning with the dealership, as in placing the blame on them. The likelihood is that you won't even have to bring that up or threaten it, but go in with the confidence that you have it in your back pocket.

There might also be a limited warranty in conjunction with the work you had done, I don't know if you're past that point, though.

 

[Dpassmore]

I thought one of the posts mentioned you had a timing belt done.
Don't threaten them no. Do remain calm but firm. Don't rush to make a decision and at the minimum ask for some type of assistance. If you are a regular loyal customer, they will not want to lose you and will be willing to work with you if you seem to be reasonable and willing to work with them.



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[sdevine42]

Ahh that makes more sense - my mistake.

Yeah the work was done less than a week ago and with the understanding that we were driving down to the beach. No timing belt done, just water pump and thermostat.

The dealer actually called me back and offered to cover the cost of the crankshaft seal if paid for the alternator and belt. Of course the quote for those 2 was ~ $800

 

[Dpassmore]

I misread post #6. If in fact the alternator failed it could've been something related. Either way it looks bad on them.
If you listen to them and respond reasonably, they should be willing to work with you and try to keep your business.


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[Dpassmore]

I would ask them to cover labor and you pay for parts at list or below.
If they will not negotiate, I don't think I would let them make the repair. Especially if you've done your part by being calm and respectful during the interactions.


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[radlynx]

the oil looks like an engine oil. I don't think it's a power steering pump oil, a/c oil. the engine oil must have leaked somewhere in the water pump seal and caused all those oil to splatter in the engine bay. that's definitely the fault of the repairshop who replaced your water pump. don't agree with covering the cost. they did not fix it right when they replaced your waterpump. the removal of the waterpump requires the removal of partly the front of the engine.

Ahh that makes more sense - my mistake.

Yeah the work was done less than a week ago and with the understanding that we were driving down to the beach. No timing belt done, just water pump and thermostat.

The dealer actually called me back and offered to cover the cost of the crankshaft seal if paid for the alternator and belt. Of course the quote for those 2 was ~ $800