Soft Brakes

[stever1000]

Master cylinder. Can you pump the brakes up? Sitting, with engine running, push pedal, release quickly and compress again, are you able to build pedal pressure?

With the car on
It feels like there is pressure, but not consistent. If I do what you describe, its soft or spongy at first, then it gets firm, if I repeat it, its soft again then firm, But then if I continue to hold it, it slowly goes further.

With the car off its soft on the first press, then goes firm on the second press and continue to be firm, but I can still press the pedal

No leaks and hoses look okay. Master cylinder looks to be in good shape (on the outside)

I read that rear drum brakes being out of adjustment will cause a low pedal, which many people incorrectly describe as a spongy pedal. But my e-brake works well after a few clicks. I haven't jacked it up yet to rotate the wheels

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Still really soft. When I am at a stop light my foot travels far before it stops fully



What to check next?

When it stops is it firm or mushy?

Did you check your rubber brake lines for cracks?

Did you jack up the rear and spin the wheels? They shouldn't freewheel and you should hear slight brake shoe rubbing?


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[stever1000]

When it stops is it firm or mushy?

Did you check your rubber brake lines for cracks?

Did you jack up the rear and spin the wheels? They shouldn't freewheel and you should hear slight brake shoe rubbing?


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I did a visual check and the lines look fine

When it stops its after a lot of travel but firm (feels like the end of travel but its not at the floor)

Have not jacked up the rear yet to spin the wheels

I can get a max of 5 clicks in the ebrake when pulling up. 6 clicks and I would be really pulling on it, but haven't tried!

 

[babowc]

Try getting the ABS systems bled.. there's a specific method. Apparently the dealers can do this through the OBD2(?) port. Cycles the ABS actuators to flush/bleed.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

With 5 klicks in gear will the e brake hold if you give it some throttle?

You can do what you want next but I'd look into the rear shoe adjustment next.


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[ckramos]

It's that selfadjuster, since you mentioned the rear brakes, you were probably messing with it. The hydraulic pressure it's going to the underadjusted wheel cylinder.

The hand brake brake is over adjusted, suppose to get 7-9 clicks.

Just jack the handbrake about 20 times and the selfadjuster will self adjust, unless you didn't clean it when you did the drum brakes.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

It's that selfadjuster, since you mentioned the rear brakes, you were probably messing with it. The hydraulic pressure it's going to the underadjusted wheel cylinder.



The hand brake brake is over adjusted, suppose to get 7-9 clicks.



Just jack the handbrake about 20 times and the selfadjuster will self adjust, unless you didn't clean it when you did the drum brakes.

I'm pretty sure it's 5-7 klicks for a properly adjusted ebrake


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[stever1000]

With 5 klicks in gear will the e brake hold if you give it some throttle?

You can do what you want next but I'd look into the rear shoe adjustment next.


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In idle it doesn't move,ill try to give it throttle

It's that selfadjuster, since you mentioned the rear brakes, you were probably messing with it. The hydraulic pressure it's going to the underadjusted wheel cylinder.

The hand brake brake is over adjusted, suppose to get 7-9 clicks.

Just jack the handbrake about 20 times and the selfadjuster will self adjust, unless you didn't clean it when you did the drum brakes.

I haven't touched the back brakes yet, ill pull the ebrake several times to see if it helps

 

[stever1000]

So after a cold start and idling at 1100 rpm, it held in drive. As soon as I touched the throttle (<1500 rpm) the truck moved forward easily - I assume this means the back brakes need some adjustment? It holds ok on hills

I pulled the e-brake more than 15 times and haven't noticed a significant change

Occasionally on sharp right turns (pulling into my parking spot around a concrete pillar, only happened in the same maneuver same spot, only happened twice). I think it's the ABS kicking in. I hear a sound and then a short noise of the front brakes - very weird

 

[phattyduck]

Assuming the e-brake auto-adjustment is working (sometimes it can get rusted/stuck) - it might take HUNDREDS of pulls of the ebrake if it hasn't been used in years.

When I got my 4Runner from my sister (who never used the ebrake), it took about 300 pulls of the ebrake... then I gave up and turned the star wheel by hand, then a few hundred more pulls to get it back to make sure everything was right... Then a slight adjustment in-cab to take a bit of stretch out of the cable... With a non-rusty California truck, that's what it took. It can be more work to get it working with rust.

-Charlie

 

[stever1000]

Assuming the e-brake auto-adjustment is working (sometimes it can get rusted/stuck) - it might take HUNDREDS of pulls of the ebrake if it hasn't been used in years.

When I got my 4Runner from my sister (who never used the ebrake), it took about 300 pulls of the ebrake... then I gave up and turned the star wheel by hand, then a few hundred more pulls to get it back to make sure everything was right... Then a slight adjustment in-cab to take a bit of stretch out of the cable... With a non-rusty California truck, that's what it took. It can be more work to get it working with rust.



-Charlie

Mine is fairly rust free, I will try adjusting the starwheel when I have the rear up on axle stands

Cheers

 

[stever1000]

I planned to adjust the starwheel tonight, however when it was on axle stands I rotated the tires and there was some rubbing sound.

It sounds like in one full 360 degree rotation, the shoe rubs on the drum on one side. Is this possible? I assumed the shoes would be adjusted in/out at the same rate - or is one shoe more worn than the other?

I also held the button in on the e-brake and pulled up several/countless times to help self adjust.

Suggestions on what to check next?

 

[stever1000]

When it stops is it firm or mushy?

Did you check your rubber brake lines for cracks?

Did you jack up the rear and spin the wheels? They shouldn't freewheel and you should hear slight brake shoe rubbing?


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I jacked up the rear and spun the tires. I could hear slight rubbing like you mention, but only on one side as I spun.

I pulled the e-brake >50 times last night and the brake pedal still has a lot of travel

How can I tell if the brake booster is working so I can rule that out? I searched a bit and it sounds similar to the master cylinder

 

[19963.4lsr5]

You should adjust the other side to rubbing on both sides. Then remove both springs from each ebrake bellcrank and pull the arm out with your hand and see how much free travel it has. That bolt is to take up the free travel. You adjust the bolt length so that when you pull back there is a .030 gap.


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[stever1000]

You should adjust the other side to rubbing on both sides. Then remove both springs from each ebrake bellcrank and pull the arm out with your hand and see how much free travel it has. That bolt is to take up the free travel. You adjust the bolt length so that when you pull back there is a .030 gap.


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Sorry for the confusion, I meant on the drivers side it sounds like it is only rubbing on one shoe. So in 360 degree rotation, the drum only drags one time.
Can I adjust the shoes independently?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I would adjust it out till you hear it more but don't feel resistance.


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[Septimius]

Unless it's a trip you can do from the comfort of your own home.

quite literally laughed out loud, more of a cackle-snort than a laugh. now everyone in the office is staring at me. thanks!

 

[Tyler James Inc]

quite literally laughed out loud, more of a cackle-snort than a laugh. now everyone in the office is staring at me. thanks!

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Those are my favorite! Glad I could help [emoji847]

 

[stever1000]

I would adjust it out till you hear it more but don't feel resistance.


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I adjusted the passenger side until I could hear it more on the drivers side. The drivers side already some sound.

Funny enough depending if I had the wheel/tire on or off the sound changed.

How many clicks on the starwheel does it take to adjust the shoes? There are several teeth on the starwheel but I'm not sure how that equates to actual movement.

I will take it for a drive tonight. I was also able to check the brake hoses again and they all look fine with no cracks. I may replace the hoses since they are cheap and I can be 100% certain thats not causing the mushy brakes

 

[phattyduck]

Funny enough depending if I had the wheel/tire on or off the sound changed.

The wheel/lug nuts hold the drum in place. If the drum isn't fully seated, you might get the slight dragging noise when the brakes aren't adjusted correctly.

-Charlie