Solid Axle Swap, or Medium/Long Travel IFS

[dorton]

I'm planning on performing an engine swap in the future. It will be at this point, either a 5VZ, 1UZ, or 2UZ. With the added power in mind, and clearance related issues, I started thinking of going ahead an performing a solid axle swap. I can build the axle to almost an unbreakable point for use with 35's, the added articulation would be nice, and....solid axle looks better. :becky:

For those that have swapped, are you pleased with the finished product?
I will continue traveling long distances to go wheeling, and have no intentions of this becoming a trailer queen. Anything you'd of done different?

For those IFS Mid or Long Travel guys, are you pleased with the outcome?
Would you do it again? What would you do differently?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

For the springs, i'm looking at either 3" TrailGear springs or RUF.

 

[Hyde802]

I love my rufs, but they dont ride very smooth. I say if you are planning on driving on the street a lot (nothing wrong with that) then get new springs. But it will still ride like a leaf sprung truck, and youll end up about 6" taller than your current ride height. If the budget allows, you could do links/coil overs.

Weak point in the ifs, even with a MT/LT is still the 7.5 ring and pinion. But might be more comfortable on longer rides, and DD use. A limited slip in the front will help keep the gears alive while still giving you some added traction, while keeping the cog reasonable low.

 

[KidVermicious]

I haven't done a swap, but I did go from an IFS '86 to a solid axle '85. I say for the long range travelling you do, remember where you drive the truck most and keep it IFS. It rides better on the pavement and handles better in the high speed dirt sections too. Slap a Blazeland kit on there and you'll have all the articulation you need. Your truck is too pretty to take anywhere you'll need a solid axle .

I would RUF or link if you go ahead with the swap, though. I've seen several TG swaps, and I have yet to see one that isn't way too high.

 

[dorton]

I love my rufs, but they dont ride very smooth. I say if you are planning on driving on the street a lot (nothing wrong with that) then get new springs. But it will still ride like a leaf sprung truck, and youll end up about 6" taller than your current ride height. If the budget allows, you could do links/coil overs.

Weak point in the ifs, even with a MT/LT is still the 7.5 ring and pinion. But might be more comfortable on longer rides, and DD use. A limited slip in the front will help keep the gears alive while still giving you some added traction, while keeping the cog reasonable low.

I'd read a few places on how great the RUF's rode. What shocks are you running?

Rebuilding or replacing the idler arm every couple months gets old. Before I pull the trigger on a Total Chaos or similar Idler arm.

I've got a locker(and 4.88s) already in the front, but to preserve the component's lives, I use the twin stick regularly.

I haven't done a swap, but I did go from an IFS '86 to a solid axle '85. I say for the long range travelling you do, remember where you drive the truck most and keep it IFS. It rides better on the pavement and handles better in the high speed dirt sections too. Slap a Blazeland kit on there and you'll have all the articulation you need. Your truck is too pretty to take anywhere you'll need a solid axle .

I would RUF or link if you go ahead with the swap, though. I've seen several TG swaps, and I have yet to see one that isn't way too high.

Thanks for the compliment. The trails of the Black Hills in South Dakota did their best to change it's appearance.

On rides, I did the opposite. My previous play truck was an 85' on 35s locked F/R w/5.29s, from that to my 86' 4runner. It's been so long since I've ridden in a straight axle truck, I honestly can't remember how it rode. I do remember on some of the longer trails in Colorado, the JK guys were waving us by in the non technical sections I presume because of ride harshness.

 

[NoHair]

I built a 91 4Runner SAS w 38s back in 2001 and drove it for 5 years before selling it. It had lockers front and rear, all custom suspension by me, lots of articulation, being weighted 50/50 it was fun because the body pretty much always stayed level with equal articulation on the front and rear. I used it for mud and crawling. It rode and drove great!!! I loved it.
But I was always hitting stuff fast and since I grew up with a motorcycle and 14 acres of track I always liked going fast and hitting jumps. At that time in my life there was no way I could afford to build something to be super dependable and gofast.
So fast forward to a few years ago, my business becoming successful, being able to afford to 2 kids, wife and house and still be able to start my dream of something that was dependable and gofast I started my 92 4Runner build.
In the end it cost a LOT more to do a LT rig, I have ARBs F/R, but kept 32's on it to keep from having to chop up more of the body, lose comfort, less breakage and if I NEEDED bigger for some reason I can use the winch on either end. Most of my trips, 3-4 times a year are 800-1000 miles round trip and I beat on it when I am furthest from home, I feel it is very solidly build and have confidence it wont leave me stranded, I have a good time with it. It is very comfortable to drive on or off road. We were haveing fun last trip setting the cruise at 45 and running down a road with lots of jumps, kind of fun!!


But $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Hyde802]

I'd read a few places on how great the RUF's rode. What shocks are you running?

Let me rephrase that I guess. They ride/flex great. However, because the leafs sit flat at ride height , I have 2-3" of up travel before the bumps hit. But thats the point of RUFs, to sit low. Its not made to go fast, its made to go up. But how great of a ride do you expect out of two 30 year old clapped out leaf packs put into one? Solid axle truck that are running RUFs have more clearance, so they can get a little more up travel out of them. But even then, you dont want to leafs to go too far over flat, or youll start breaking them. Running monroe f-250 shocks, info is all in the build thread.

If I was to do a solid axle swap over again, I would cut off the front of my frame from the front cab mount forward and rebuild it 3"ish higher to allow for more up travel, or start with a 2wd pick up frame, which have a higher arch in the front of the frame from the factory, much like the clearance from a solid axle truck.

 

[Hyde802]

Heres a comparison picture. These trucks are pretty much identical. Same frame/ifs stuff as your 1st gen.

The red has a NEW set of rears up front, as in brand new rear springs, just put up front, he may have an extra leaf added, but I dont remember (I think its 4 or 5 leafs) . My truck has old rufs I put together, out of 3 different packs (7 leafs), so I have an extra .5" lift, just because of the added thickness of the spring pack. Im on 38s, hes on 35s.. same hood level. Both have 63s in the rear, His rear shackle is vertical, mine is at 45*. Both trucks sit level (my rear is actually a little higher than the front)

I got 3" lift from the sas. Thats from hanger and shackle ONLY. Red truck has around 4.5 total lift. Add TGs 3" springs to it, and you end up with 6" of lift. Also, my fenders have been cut about 3", and I dont think his are.

He has more up travel (because his springs are taller) and says it rides great, but the ifs was definitely smoother.

 

[Cali 4runner]

4wheelundergound 3 link setup!! It's expensive but the best of both worlds

 

[fourwd1]

The ride quality from using RUF is going to depend on the condition of the springs you're using. I built mine from 3 pair of old 2WD rears.
I did a lot of work to get the most flex out of them.
They're great in the rocks but a bit too soft on road.
But you understand the 2 main reasons for RUF is they are cheap (you already own them) and they relocate the axle forward of the stock location, which improves approach angle and reduces tire rub at the pinch weld area.

 

[BryanHousley]

Solid axles are favorable under almost all circumstances when riding offroad. The only two downsides are having less differential clearance and ride quality when on road.

If you do, Marlin crawler has a very nice SAS kit you can order for fairly cheap, though if you want it done right the first time, I would suggest going straight for the Trail Gear 3-link conversion kit:

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/High_...3-Link_Kit__OEM_/i_0_0_370/_300377-1-KIT.aspx

All you really need is to supply your own Yota 8" axel and it will get you a good amount of articulation. You can mount the Fox air shocks in the same place you would for the regular shock. Does not really even need any reinforcement if the frame is in good condition.

 

[dorton]

The 3 link would be another cool option, you just don't see very many
people street driving them. Another negative would be if a shock had a
failure 3k miles from home, that would make for either an interesting ride back, or a costly tow bill.

When I made this thread, I had my heart pretty much set on the SAS, but you all have made me reconsider.
The Blazeland appears to do pretty well, and would be suited more for long distance overlanding, and more
highway miles associated in getting to those places, and still does respectively in the slower more technical areas.
Like it sits, it does the hardest trails in our local system even when wet(not as easily as the SFA trucks,
but it does still complete the trails).

 

[Cali 4runner]

This guy did the three link and daily drives it.. Go to the last page. He says a sway bar would help up front

Can't wait for BOOST! egesledder's 7mgte swap - YotaTech Forums

 

[CAN-03runner]

I started out with RUF. I didn't like the ride at all. Every bump on the street got me airborne. The hi-steer needs a 3" lift. My RUF needed some extra leaves, and I was using the stock shackle. I didn't like it. I've since replaced them with something else.

As for the engine swap....Mine went from a 4cyl to a the 3.0 V6. My axle with the truss I discovered would hit the oil pan, even with the proper V6 oil pan out of a T100 I believe it needed to be. With the longer shackles and alternate soft springs it became worse, and I lengthened the bump stops some more.

I'd say choose you engine swap first, and pay attention to the oil pan, as in if others have a recipe for using your particular choice of engine with a solid axle and if there was any interference, and go from there.

Then if the engine you want is identified as having clearance issues choose another or at least you know, and I'd say put the engine in, and then setup the springs and hangers where you need them, instead of choosing the spring setup first, as those springs might not position the axle where you need it.

 

[CAN-03runner]

This guy did the three link and daily drives it.. Go to the last page. He says a sway bar would help up front

Can't wait for BOOST! egesledder's 7mgte swap - YotaTech Forums

So if one were to link only one of the axle. Which one should you do, front or rear, why?

 

[JToyota4x4]

I currently have a stock 4Runner that is eating idler arms, and am thinking about doing an axle swap. But, the story here is that i had a 1991 Toyota pickup that I did a SAS on about a decade ago. I drove it for about 7 years prior to the swap, and about 5 years after. Here is the takeaway. It probably rode better before the swap, but was also in pristine condition being rather unwheeled. I started wheeling it harder, broke stuff left and right, including about a half-dozen idler arms. Got sick of that, so SAS'd it with a lot of care and planning. The trail-ability was so many worlds better, I can't even convey it, and it was VERY streetable. It had All Pro leaves on it with Hy-steer. I drove it on wheeling trips up to 500 miles round-trip. Loved its ride. Highway, freeway, potholed roads at 45-plus. My brother, my friends, and myself all agree that it rode and drove as good or better than about half of the stock IFS rigs of different makes that we have had. Less bushing failure, to be sure. I go SAS all the way. No question. None. Zilch. Nada. Out.

 

[Howitzer]

The 3 link would be another cool option, you just don't see very many
people street driving them. Another negative would be if a shock had a
failure 3k miles from home, that would make for either an interesting ride back, or a costly tow bill.

You raise a very good point!!
Also, consider a 7MGE/7MGTE or perhaps even a 1JZ/2JZ (N/A or turbo'd) swap. I'm not sure what conditions you're wheeling in, so those are just suggestions to think about