01thunder
New member
i get that much brian. but don't the speakers and amp have to match? rather, the amp be higher in rms than the speakers? that is my question now. which speaker from the 2 i listed above will work better with the mini amp?
speaker options
- Thread starter 01thunder
- Start date
i get that much brian. but don't the speakers and amp have to match? rather, the amp be higher in rms than the speakers? that is my question now. which speaker from the 2 i listed above will work better with the mini amp?
BrianSD_42
New member
That would be perfectly fine. There is no exact match. Most speakers, including the Infinity support a range of RMS and state so in the specs. You are only referring to the max of the range.
Sure you don't want to buy speakers that are way off like 200W RMS and power then with 40W RMS but that isn't the case here.
Unfortunately the audio companies are forced to overly simplify things for marketing purposes, and it makes it difficult to compare the specifications of different pieces of equipment.
Exact power ratings for amplifiers and speakers are irrelevant, and they aren't really useful unless you also have some other pieces of information (more below).
Speaker are commonly given a rating in watts rms, which is essentially the average continuous power you can run into them before you burn out the voice coil or exceed the cone's maximum travel (xmax). The other important number to know is the efficiency of the speaker, which is often measured as the number of decibels (db) it produces with 1w of input. With a high efficiency speaker you need less input power to get the same sound level than you do with a low efficiency speaker. Because of this one "45w" speaker may be nowhere near as loud as another "45w" speaker.
Amplifiers are rated in watts as well, but this rating alone doesn't really tell you much. The amp's output varies widely based on the volume level and the content of the music, and you'd be surprised how often the amp is only putting out a couple of watts during normal listening (Google "first watt"). The other important number is the distortion level at the rated power output. As you crank the amp up it will distort more and more, which makes it sound bad and can damage your speakers. The power rating (watts) is based on a given distortion level, for example 100w @ 1% THD. Just to make it confusing, a high quality amp rated at 35w @ 0.01% THD puts out much more clean power than an amp rated 50w @ 1% THD. Luckily amp power rating methods have been somewhat standardized over the last 5-10 years.
Ok, so what does this all mean if you want to upgrade your stereo and you don't want to do hours of research?
1) Don't fixate on the specific watts ratings of speakers or amps. Buy from reputable manufacturers, in general aim to have the rated output of the amp be higher than the rated Wrms of the speaker so you hopefully have enough clean power. For normal listening levels speakers rated around 30 Wrms or higher should be fine.
2) Go with 4 ohm speakers for mids and tweeters in car audio, this is the standard.
3) Keep the signal to noise level high, this means adjusting your amplifier's gain so that you get the most voltage out of your head unit as possible. In other words, set the amplifier's gain low so that your "as loud as I ever listen to" level is at ~90 of the max volume on the head unit.
4) Don't spend a lot of money on interconnects and speaker cables. You of course want cables with good shielding, but you'll get much better results by spending the extra money on the speakers and not the wires.
5) Consider adding some sound deadening, this lead to major improvements in the bass and mid bass.
- Matt
Exact power ratings for amplifiers and speakers are irrelevant, and they aren't really useful unless you also have some other pieces of information (more below).
Speaker are commonly given a rating in watts rms, which is essentially the average continuous power you can run into them before you burn out the voice coil or exceed the cone's maximum travel (xmax). The other important number to know is the efficiency of the speaker, which is often measured as the number of decibels (db) it produces with 1w of input. With a high efficiency speaker you need less input power to get the same sound level than you do with a low efficiency speaker. Because of this one "45w" speaker may be nowhere near as loud as another "45w" speaker.
Amplifiers are rated in watts as well, but this rating alone doesn't really tell you much. The amp's output varies widely based on the volume level and the content of the music, and you'd be surprised how often the amp is only putting out a couple of watts during normal listening (Google "first watt"). The other important number is the distortion level at the rated power output. As you crank the amp up it will distort more and more, which makes it sound bad and can damage your speakers. The power rating (watts) is based on a given distortion level, for example 100w @ 1% THD. Just to make it confusing, a high quality amp rated at 35w @ 0.01% THD puts out much more clean power than an amp rated 50w @ 1% THD. Luckily amp power rating methods have been somewhat standardized over the last 5-10 years.
Ok, so what does this all mean if you want to upgrade your stereo and you don't want to do hours of research?
1) Don't fixate on the specific watts ratings of speakers or amps. Buy from reputable manufacturers, in general aim to have the rated output of the amp be higher than the rated Wrms of the speaker so you hopefully have enough clean power. For normal listening levels speakers rated around 30 Wrms or higher should be fine.
2) Go with 4 ohm speakers for mids and tweeters in car audio, this is the standard.
3) Keep the signal to noise level high, this means adjusting your amplifier's gain so that you get the most voltage out of your head unit as possible. In other words, set the amplifier's gain low so that your "as loud as I ever listen to" level is at ~90 of the max volume on the head unit.
4) Don't spend a lot of money on interconnects and speaker cables. You of course want cables with good shielding, but you'll get much better results by spending the extra money on the speakers and not the wires.
5) Consider adding some sound deadening, this lead to major improvements in the bass and mid bass.
- Matt
That doesn't make any sense when I first read it. Is this statement around connecting to OEM wires coming from the manufacturer or something you read here?
If coming from the manufacturer, can you tell us what speakers you are looking at so we can check out what they are saying?
jeremyc74
Banned
Which speakers are you looking at? They're probably available in 2 or 4 ohm configurations.
Did you decide to install an amp? If not, you absolutely don't want to go to 2 ohm speakers. Head units and factory amps won't work well with them.
jeremyc74
Banned
This part is just complete BS.
The resistance of a 10' piece of 18 gauge wire isn't going to be anywhere close to 2 ohms. It going to be more like .02.
Edit:
I went ahead and looked it up.
18 gains 6.385 ohm per 1000' feet. So it's .06 ohm for a 10' piece.
https://www.google.com/search?q=18+...microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl
Last edited:
01thunder
New member
ok. so what does that mean to me? i shouldn't buy these because they won't work?
jeremyc74
Banned
If you're planning on running them without an amp, then no, they won't.
Just stick to 4 ohm speakers up front. There's just no benefit to 2 ohm speakers in this application.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read: "True Four Ohm Impedance Technology: The speaker's 2.0-ohm impedance combined with the impedance of your speaker wire provides a true 4-ohm load to your connected headunit or amplifier."
I have now officially lost the last little ounce of respect I had for that brand.
I'm sure the real nominal impedance off these speakers is more like 3 ohms. I would also bet that metering the woofers resistance would show about 4 ohms.
Buy them if you have heard them and liked them but don't expect anything miraculous if you haven't heard them. $70 for a set of 6.5" coax speakers puts these in the low end tier. and after reading the BS they are shoveling, I would expect them to perform the same as the other Low end competitors with similar ridiculous claims.
My recommendation for this price range would be to look at alpine type S or type E, Polk dB, or JBL.
I have now officially lost the last little ounce of respect I had for that brand.
I'm sure the real nominal impedance off these speakers is more like 3 ohms. I would also bet that metering the woofers resistance would show about 4 ohms.
Buy them if you have heard them and liked them but don't expect anything miraculous if you haven't heard them. $70 for a set of 6.5" coax speakers puts these in the low end tier. and after reading the BS they are shoveling, I would expect them to perform the same as the other Low end competitors with similar ridiculous claims.
My recommendation for this price range would be to look at alpine type S or type E, Polk dB, or JBL.
jeremyc74
Banned
I'm betting that's something the eBay seller threw in.
BrianSD_42
New member
I would describe the reference speakers as better low/mid tier. They are right at a low price point and compatibility setup so that they work with either a factory deck or a small amp like the Alpine mini amp.
I think price wise they are as good as any other brand for the price. Buy the mid level Alpine speakers instead if you wish.
I think price wise they are as good as any other brand for the price. Buy the mid level Alpine speakers instead if you wish.
I see your point. I actually read this from Crutchfield, who, in the past has just used the bullet points from the manufacturer so I assumed it came from Infinity.
As I looked further, I think this is actually from Crutchfield. So I'll transfer my disappointment to them.
I found this discussion that seems to confirm my theory of 3 ohms:
http://community.crutchfield.com/ca...edance-with-wire-to-make-4-ohm-impedance-mean
jeremyc74
Banned
That bit about the wires may be from the manufacturer, who knows....but it's damn sure wrong.
Also, all those guys using multimeters are measuring resistance, not impedance. Measuring impedance is more complicated, and requires an A/C source at a certain frequency, not the DC source from a DMM.
It's easiest to just rely on the manufacturers specs.
Yep. Though, I've found over many years of professional car audio installation and troubleshooting, that typically the DC resistance measurement tends to be very close to the nominal impedance.
That can change with coaxial speakers where the capacitor for the tweeter's crossover can affect the measurement.
That can change with coaxial speakers where the capacitor for the tweeter's crossover can affect the measurement.
