Starter bolts won't budge.

[jsimms243]

Hello guys, thanks in advance for any advice you can provide. I have a 2008 4Runner that's giving me the "click, click, click" when the key is turned. I've searched my butt off on this forum, but I haven't ran into exactly my problem:

I can't get the 2 bolts holding in the starter budge at all. A little background:

My ride gave me no warning signs of any issues, but suddenly one night I got that multi-click and assumed I had a dead battery. I have used a charged jump box and later a direct connection to another running car to jump start the 4Runner, but I get the same result - click, click, click w/ no turnover.

Assuming there's a high likelihood of a bad starter, I decided to replace it and cross my fingers since I likely ruled out voltage issues. If I'm wrong and it's not the starter, it isn't the end of the world - I'd just end up taking it to a shop to figure out what's wrong. **The problem is that I cannot get the 2 bolts holding in the starter to budge at all.**

Ironically, I briefly owned a 2003 a couple years ago that had a verified bad starter, and I had the same problem - 1 of the 2 bolts would not budge. On the 2003, it would randomly start if banged on, so I had to eventually sacrifice a man-card and take it to Toyota, simply because of a stuck bolt. They had it fixed pretty quick.

I assumed the 2003 bolt issue existed due to some rusting issues, being a northern car, so I had higher hopes for my 2008 which has no rusting problems. I have used 2 different air rachets on this 2008, one being brand new (the Earthquake, which is also impacting, from Harbor Frieght). This tool provides 70 lbs of torque. I've ran across several posts here of you guys removing your starter, but I haven't ran across anyone who has this issue with removing the starter bolts. What am I doing wrong here?

By the way, I do have a remote start which has worked without issue for a few years. I don't feel like it's related, but I've seen that question asked a lot on other similar posts so I wanted to throw that out there in case anyone wanted to try to diagnose.

Any advice out there, fellas?

 

[72W442]

I was able to break them loose from under the vehicle with a 1/2 breaker bar 14mm I think, just to get them started, they were tight but no rust and i am in buffalo ny.

 

[AuSeeker]

As mentioned use a 1/2" drive breaker bar, leverage is your friend!!

 

[jsimms243]

I'll certainly do that and take yall's advice, but I'm curious, do you guys really think that will be more powerful than 70 lb torque air rachet?

 

[AuSeeker]

I'll certainly do that and take yall's advice, but I'm curious, do you guys really think that will be more powerful than 70 lb torque air rachet?

Yes it certainly will, with a 1/2 breaker bar you should be able to apply almost twice that amount of torque, if you still have trouble add a piece of pipe over the end of the breaker bar the add to it's length which will increase the torque even more.

 

[jsimms243]

Yes it certainly will, with a 1/2 breaker bar you should be able to apply almost twice that amount of torque, if you still have trouble add a piece of pipe over the end of the breaker bar the add to it's length which will increase the torque even more.

Thanks for the advice, will give it a shot. I will report back with the results.

 

[Derekv]

70 ft lbs is only a 70 lb force on the end of a 1-ft breaker bar. If you can put 100-lbs on a 3-ft breaker bar, you get 300-ft-lbs. 70ft-lbs isn’t much.

Derek V

 

[ZiaMan]

+ 1 on what DerekV said.

an air ratchet isn't an impact gun and 70 ft-lbs isn't much. If you leaned on a 2ft bar that would be more than 70 ft-lbs. As an example when I did my timing belt, I had a 1/2" breaker bar, pipe extension and used most of my strength to get it loose - well into several hundred ft-lbs to break it loose.

You have a few options (cheaper to more expensive)
- 1/2" breaker bar. get some pipe to extend if necessary
- Look at mechanical/hand help impact drivers
- since you have air, get a proper air powered impact gun

 

[JVC8790]

I'd spray it down with some PB blaster or similar and then give it some heat too. I snapped off a bolt for my alternator that I tried to give some extra muscle to break loose. Never hurts to grab a MAP torch and some PB blaster and try to loosen its hold a little bit and then proceed with a bit more torque.

 

[y=mx+b]

I'd spray it down with some PB blaster or similar and then give it some heat too. I snapped off a bolt for my alternator that I tried to give some extra muscle to break loose.

I agree, definitely get some penetrating fluid and fire on there. If its a 14mm socket, the bolt can't be that big, so would be worried about breaking. Working on removing the factory skids right now and have broken 3 bolts even after spraying them with pb the day before. Carefully re-drilling while upside down is not very fun, so if it can be avoided with a little extra prep, then its worth it

 

[JVC8790]

I agree, definitely get some penetrating fluid and fire on there. If its a 14mm socket, the bolt can't be that big, so would be worried about breaking. Working on removing the factory skids right now and have broken 3 bolts even after spraying them with pb the day before. Carefully re-drilling while upside down is not very fun, so if it can be avoided with a little extra prep, then its worth it

I had to re-drill and tap a few bolt holes for my skid install as well. Since then, I won't do any work on the 4Runner unless I've PB treated for a few days.

 

[y=mx+b]

I had to re-drill and tap a few bolt holes for my skid install as well. Since then, I won't do any work on the 4Runner unless I've PB treated for a few days.

What taps do you have? I got a Harbor Freight set for cheap to give it a shot, but the tap handle is awful and they don't feel that sharp.

I also heard atf acetone 50/50 mix is pretty good at breaking down rust, so trying those on the remaining bolts. ATF helps it get in there and the acetone reacts with iron oxide to form CO2, H20, and FeC. Iron carbide is apparently very brittle and breaks easily to free up bolts. I'll update for OP if the aft/acetone mix works on these bolts, could help to free up the starter bolts

 

[JVC8790]

What taps do you have? I got a Harbor Freight set for cheap to give it a shot, but I the tap handle is awful and they don't feel that sharp.

I also heard atf acetone 50/50 mix is pretty good at breaking down rust, so trying those on the remaining bolts. ATF helps it get in there and the acetone reacts with iron oxide to form CO2, H20, and FeC. Iron carbide is apparently very brittle and breaks easily to free up bolts. I'll update for OP if the aft/acetone mix works on these bolts, could help to free up the starter bolts

I follow this guy who suggests use of SeaFoam Deep Creep (which I have bought and use now)

YouTube

I have purchased individual taps from Menards when I need them, I have the harbor freight kit but it like you mentioned feels chinsey. I've bought Masterforce ones from Menards and have had better success with those.

 

[y=mx+b]

I follow this guy who suggests use of SeaFoam Deep Creep (which I have bought and use now)

YouTube

I have purchased individual taps from Menards when I need them, I have the harbor freight kit but it like you mentioned feels chinsey. I've bought Masterforce ones from Menards and have had better success with those.

Alright cool, thanks for the info on penetrating fluid and taps. I do enjoy a good project farm video, so I will definitely look into the Deep Creep

 

[jsimms243]

I agree, definitely get some penetrating fluid and fire on there. If its a 14mm socket, the bolt can't be that big, so would be worried about breaking. Working on removing the factory skids right now and have broken 3 bolts even after spraying them with pb the day before. Carefully re-drilling while upside down is not very fun, so if it can be avoided with a little extra prep, then its worth it

Thanks guys. Here's an update....

I did spray it down with PB Blaster the other day, so we can check that off the list. I have gotten the 1/2 breaker bar but I'm not having luck, primarily because I don't have enough room to push/pull the thing. To clarify, I'm doing this from underneath, of course. The exhaust and drive shaft are is the way.

You guy(s) that used this method, did you remove the drive shaft or exhaust? Maybe use some fancy extension or swivel tool? What tips do you have?

 

[jsimms243]

I was able to break them loose from under the vehicle with a 1/2 breaker bar 14mm I think, just to get them started, they were tight but no rust and i am in buffalo ny.

72W442 just wanted to get your thoughts on how to used the breaker bar to remove the starter bolts. You went from under, right? Did you have to remove the drive shaft or exhaust? Any other detail to can provide? I'm really hoping to not have to remove these if it's possible.

Thanks.

 

[djpope09]

When I took my starter off, I removed the wheel and used a few extensions/u-joints to get to the bolts. I would jack that side of the front up and go at it through the wheel well with the breaker bar.

I tried a big earthquake impact (rated for 1200 ft-lbs) to get the crank bolt off one time. My experience is that they don't have as much torque as advertised. The earthquake didn't work and I used a breaker bar and the whole handle from my jack as a cheater bar to get it off.

 

[y=mx+b]

I did spray it down with PB Blaster the other day, so we can check that off the list.

I'll update for OP if the aft/acetone mix works on these bolts, could help to free up the starter bolts

Update that on the rusty skid bolts. I broke 2 bolts the other day that I had pretreated 2 days prior by spraying with pb blaster. I whipped up the atf/acetone mix yesterday and soaked the bolts in it. Today I came back out to try the atf/acetone bolts and they came out. Both the pb and atf/acetone bolts were torched and hammered.

OP, I think the atf/acetone really worked, so I would give it a try as well. I've also been using a propane torch, heating up the bolts, then wacking with a hammer. Have you tried heat and hammer?

Admittedly I've never done the starter removal before, but I found this video for the here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV1t5-wcoOI">Starter Removal and Solenoid Repair</a>. 11:05 is where he removes the starter. I know its for 3rd gen, but 1gr-fe starters are also on the side of the transmission, so a similar technique could be used. You mentioned not enough room to get leverage on the beater bar, looks like hes using a bunch of extensions and a U joint to get the breaker bar out behind the transmission. Maybe a soak the bolts the day before, torch them for a bit, hammer directly on head if possible, then try a bunch of extensions to bring the breaker bar into a manageable space.

 

[72W442]

I did it from underneath with a craftsman 1/2 breaker bar and a 12 point socket had just enough room to break them loose a little