starting issues

[richiegrich]

hey guys, so i'm having issues with my 86 starting. the runner usually starts up fine if it has been sitting for awhile but if i drive to the store real quick and jump back in the truck it wont turn over. i had the battery tested and it is good. when i turn the key over the lights turn on in the dash but there is no sound coming from the engine bay of it trying to turn over. i started banging on the starter and after about 10 min it started up. i'm assuming that its the starter but was hoping to get some input from you guys before i try and take that bad boy off and replace it. hope youre having a good weekend!:thanks:

 

[RAD4Runner]

... there is no sound coming from the engine bay of it trying to turn over. i started banging on the starter and after about 10 min it started up.

No sound at all?
Not even the circuit opening relay behind the glove compartment?
Does your truck have a starter relay like in picture below?
Does the starter relay click when you try to crank? Earlier 1986's may not have a starter relay; See KidV's thread.
Don't have an assistant? Try Special Service Tool
Tried bypassing your clutch safety switch using the clutch safety cancel switch?

i'm assuming that its the starter...

MOST LIKELY NOT

get some input from you guys before i try and take that bad boy off and replace it.

GOOD MOVE, because it is most likely NOT the starter.

If you'd like to know your truck, so you won't be dependent on others to fix/troubleshoot it, here's cranking system explained

 

[77'911]

You might consider checking the contacts behind the metal panel on the starter. They are a known trouble maker. Our local dealer actually carries the repair kit(about $40), and they don't even carry basic tune up parts for stuff(ie used frequently). It's worth tracing down the circuit with a voltmeter to be sure.
The fact you could not start it after driving a bit, leads me to think it might have some fueling issues. Might be worth taking a fuel pressure tester and see what the running(pump) and rest(regulator) pressures look like. Best of luck with it.
regards

 

[richiegrich]

No sound at all?
Not even the circuit opening relay behind the glove compartment?
Does your truck have a starter relay like in picture below?
Does the starter relay click when you try to crank? Earlier 1986's may not have a starter relay; See KidV's thread.
Don't have an assistant? Try Special Service Tool
Tried bypassing your clutch safety switch using the clutch safety cancel switch?


MOST LIKELY NOT


GOOD MOVE, because it is most likely NOT the starter.

If you'd like to know your truck, so you won't be dependent on others to fix/troubleshoot it, here's cranking system explained

thanks for all the info! there is no sound when i try and start it. and there is no starter relay either. it usually starts after a couple of minutes and a couple of bangs on the starter. ( not really sure if that is helping or not) o'm gonna try and follow kid v's write up and see if that solves this issue cause this is a friggin pain in the ass.

 

[RAD4Runner]

You might consider checking the contacts behind the metal panel on the starter....

Possible but he says no sound whatsoever. Meaning there's not even power to the Circuit Opening Relay, suggesting Ignition switch ST1 contacts may be bad.
BTW, I'm trying to figure out when in 1986 they added the starter relay. May I know what month your truck was made? Mine was made in August 1986.

there is no sound when i try and start it. and there is no starter relay either.

No starter relay means ST1 contacts of ignition switch had been carrying 12-amps of current needed to energize the starter solenoid. They could have been fried.

Try this:

• Disconnect the spade connector that plugs into solenoid, and try cranking. While trying to crank, do you hear C.O.R. behind the glove box click?
• While trying to crank, measure voltage at the female connector on wire. What voltage do you get?

Then try this simple test setup to verify. IF this consistently cranks, BUT C.O.R. still does not click then it is most likely your ST1 contacts are fried.
IF solenoid thunks energetically but no crank, then solenoid contacts are bad like 77'911 mentions ^^^.

... it might have some fueling issues. Might be worth taking a fuel pressure tester and see what the running(pump) and rest(regulator) pressures look like.

I do not think so.
O.P. has cranking (starter turning) issue, not combustion (the "VROOM") issue. Fuel pressure/fuel pump has no effect on cranking.

 

[wallytoo]

The fact you could not start it after driving a bit, leads me to think it might have some fueling issues. Might be worth taking a fuel pressure tester and see what the running(pump) and rest(regulator) pressures look like.

how does the fuel system have any effect on whether the starter cranks? whether the fuel system is at 0 psi or 2000 psi should have no effect on the starter function. the problem is more likely to be in the ignition circuit, although the plunger contacts on the starter solenoid can wear out and fail (the solenoid rides/piggybacks the starter casing).

 

[KidVermicious]

thanks for all the info! there is no sound when i try and start it. and there is no starter relay either. it usually starts after a couple of minutes and a couple of bangs on the starter. ( not really sure if that is helping or not) o'm gonna try and follow kid v's write up and see if that solves this issue cause this is a friggin pain in the ass.

Make a three foot jumper wire with a female spade terminal on one end. Next time the truck won't start, run that jumper from the starter solenoid to the positive battery stud. If that reliably gets the starter to crank where turning the key won't, THEN you'll know it's a wiring issue and you can put the relay in like you're talking about. If jumping the starter solenoid doesn't crank it either, that'll indicate a battery or starter issue and the relay won't help at all.

Isolate first. THEN repair.

 

[richiegrich]

just an update on the starting issue. so i swapped out the negative battery cable on my truck (per autozone dudes advice) and it seemed like it helped quite a bit for the first day. then the next day i got nothing. no noise, but still had all the lights on the dash lighting up. so i borrow the roomates vw and drive back to the shop and buy everything to install the relay. I get home and start cutting the wire and getting everything prepped and i go back out and still nothing. the next day i try and jump it, bang on the starter, mess with the battery and still nothing. finally i figure out that my shifter is extremely loose and has been (automatic unfortunately) and I start putting it through the gears and i push it forward into park and it starts!

thankfully the day prior i had ordered the bushing set from toyota and they arrived. so i go and pick them up and install the set and it totally tightens up the shifter and helps for the first couple of starts. but i still have to push the shifter forward to get it to start. it took me a good 2 hours to get those lil bastards in the shifter and to make matters worse as im putting the thing back together i break a plastic piece for the overdrive button. fml....

sorry for the long write up but do you guys have any suggestions? is there a sensor or something that i can rig up under the shifter? this truck is kicking me in the balls day after day..

also, i do still plan on installing the relay but want to get to the real pronlem first.. and fix this friggin overdrive button now too..

and p.s if it took you less than 20 minutes to put those bushings into your shifter, i hate you.

i take it back... i hate myself:yield:

 

[KidVermicious]

The truck starts reliably every time you shove the shifter into park? Good thing you isolated first before installing that relay, huh?

I had an automatic once, but I never dug into the shifter linkage so I couldn't tell you where the switch/sensor is. Do you have a FSM? I think you're on the right track though. Find that switch and fix it.

 

[richiegrich]

The truck starts reliably every time you shove the shifter into park? Good thing you isolated first before installing that relay, huh?

I had an automatic once, but I never dug into the shifter linkage so I couldn't tell you where the switch/sensor is. Do you have a FSM? I think you're on the right track though. Find that switch and fix it.

i wouldnt say reliably.. but after a couple of tries it starts. what is an fsm?

 

[KidVermicious]

Factory Service Manual. PM me your email.

 

[RAD4Runner]

i wouldnt say reliably.. but after a couple of tries it starts.

Makes sense, because right now, your stock circuit still sends current (approx 12amperes) needed to energize your starter solenoid:
1) From battery,
2) Through long wire into cabin,
3) Through ST1 contacts of ignition switch,
4) Through more wire to shifter,
5) Through contacts of neutral safety switch,
6) Through more wire back to engine compartment,
7) Finally to starter solenoid.

Meaning lots of power drops.

A properly-wired starter relay will send that same current:
1) From battery,
2) Over maybe 1 foot of wire,
3) To relay
4) Over another foot of wire - maybe 18 inches...
5) To starter solenoid.

I'll draw up a schematic for you when I get the chance this week.

 

[PRdubi]

would love the schematic also.

 

[richiegrich]

browsing older threads and found a couple interesting starting issue topics. does anybody know if first gens have neutral safety switches? wondering if that could be my problem.

 

[gman007]

Starting issues

I've had the starting issue since 1986 when purchased new, and tried all recommendations from this site, the fix I thought best was the solenoid relay wired to the starter and battery, but the problem occurred again. There's a wire on the positive battery terminal that goes to the fuse block next to the battery, that either has a fusable link or it appears to be a splice connection, I replaced that short wire and haven't had the problem for 6 months.Worth a look.

 

[richiegrich]

so today after i take the runner for a 30 min drive i get home and start to spray a little pb blaster on a couple of bolts and i notice a small leak of coolant coming from my transmission. by chance the leak is coming form the neutral safety switch, which i then realized i had on my truck.. has anyone removed and replaced one of these before? do you think i just have a busted safety switch or gasket? its a very small slow drip.. i thought it may have been coming from the transmission pan but i believe it is dripping from a bit higher. im going to go ahead and order a new switch and cross my fingers that nothing else goes wrong on this friggin toyota.. i'm starting to miss my 3rd gen :Cry:

 

[RAD4Runner]

Where?
What's coolant doing in your transmission?

 

[KidVermicious]

im going to go ahead and order a new switch and cross my fingers that nothing else goes wrong on this friggin toyota.. i'm starting to miss my 3rd gen :Cry:

If you keep throwing parts at it, you're gonna be crying for sure. Stop now, step back, isolate your problem, THEN fix it. I said it before, I'm saying it now, next time I'm just gonna watch you drive your wallet off a cliff.

Wherever that coolant might be coming from, it's not the transmission and it has nothing to do with your starting issues.

 

[richiegrich]

If you keep throwing parts at it, you're gonna be crying for sure. Stop now, step back, isolate your problem, THEN fix it. I said it before, I'm saying it now, next time I'm just gonna watch you drive your wallet off a cliff.

Wherever that coolant might be coming from, it's not the transmission and it has nothing to do with your starting issues.

i'm pretty sure that my starting issue is with the neutral safety switch because when i press the shifter forward into park the truck starts all of the time now. unless there is something else i'm missing.

as for the coolant, i'm an idiot.. for some reason i was thinking of the pink milkshake that 3rd gens are known to get. i was thinking i was getting coolant mixed in with the tranny fluid.. i'm gonna take her out tomorrow and try and figure out where this leak is coming from..