Stock sub is blown: replacement options?

ARK_SWAMP_RIDER

New member
I've got a 03 Limited with the JBL system. My rear sub is making all sorts of noises, so I'm pretty sure it's blown. I am gonna replace it, just not sure what with. The easy solution is the same JBL sub, but I've never been impressed and from what I can tell it's over $350. I wanted to use the factory amp to power a new sub, but looks like I need a 8" 2 ohm DVC sub, and they don't make one that'll fit (mounting depth is 4" if the info I got was correct). However, there are a variety of options available in a 4 ohm SVC. From what I've read, pairing this with the stock amp won't yield good results. So, looks like I may be going with a aftermarket amp. Is there anything special I need to hook an amp up with the JBL system? I've read about using speaker level inputs and the 12V plug for a turn on wire. Any issues with the rest of the system if the sub is unplugged from the amp? I'm looking at shallow mounts from Kicker, Pioneer, and Kenwood. JL Audio has a 8" w1 sub with a depth of less than 3.5" that would work as well and is at the top of my list at the moment.
 
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they want 350 bucks for another stock sub?!?!? what a rip off!

i got 2 10" JBL 1000 WATTS for $140 with lifetime insurance!!!!!!!
 
Looking at the parts diagarm, $350 is for the sub enclosure and amp. It doesn't appear the driver is available separately.

ARK, Crutchfield lists several 8" DVC drivers, including a few 2 ohm versions. The Kicker's are only 4.25" deep so should fit the enclosure as is. Search the forum to find where others have replaced the stock driver. I also like the looks of eD's 3.8, but it may be a bit too tall for the stock enclosure.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the 2 ohm versus 4 ohm. I looked at the datasheet for the Toshiba output chip used in the JBL amp. The 45 wpc into 2 ohms is at 10% THD...IOW, it's gonna sound like noise if you really push it that hard. At a more reasonable 1% THD, the 2 ohm output is about 30 wpc and drops to around 18ish wpc into 4 ohms. Assuming the drivers have the same sensitivity, the difference between 30 watts and 15 watts is only 3dB...the smallest incremental change we can hear using complex tones (music) in a lab setting.

To just replace the driver, you're looking for a 8" DVC driver with 4.25" or so top mount depth that works in a .6 ft^3 / 17 liter sealed enclosure (4.5" may work with a spacer, IIRC). BTW, here's how to get to the enclosure.

Adding an outboard amp is simply a matter of tapping the subwoofer speaker level outputs on the JBL amp and either using an amp with speaker level inputs or adding a hi-low converter to the chain.

-Brent
 
That makes sense on the sub price, but either way not an option. I need to verify the mounting depth. You are right, there are a number of subs available in DVC 2 and 4 ohm, but they are all over 4" depth. From my searching, the mounting depth is right at or just below 4". I'm afraid a sub with a listed depth of 4" or more will be too much. I'm not into custom installs, I need something I can pretty much bolt in. I understand how the speaker level inputs work, just not sure where to tap in and what to use to do so (some form of wire tap I guess). I found several threads askign about this, but none that actually performed the install. I can always buy the sub, try it, and add an amp later if I'm not happy. Only downside is tearing into the compartment twice, which I'm trying to avoid. Thanks!
 
A relatively simple task would be to create or purchase a wood ring and glue it to the outside of the enclosure in order to create more depth. This may help you find subs that will fit. It depends on what you are trying to fit.

This one seems like it "could" work if you opened the enclosure a small amount:

Elemental Designs
 
I've thought about the trim ring and I could get that. My concern is this: will that push the sub too far out towards the panel? If there was nothing in front of the sub, I'd so that without question. However, I was concerned that there wasn't room in front to push the sub out any. I like the Kicker CVR, I can get them cheap and they are DVC 2 ohm so should work with stock amp (temporarily at least). However, they're 4 1/4 deep, and I'd like to know it'd fit before ordering. If I'm having to go customer, I'm not getting the Kicker and it opens up my sub options.
 
The one thing I forgot to mention last night if you replace the driver and keep the JBL amp. You may throw off the spectral balance since the JBL is laid out as a system. A replacement driver may produce more or less output than the JBL driver, but the amp doesn't have any level controls to balance it to taste. Using a separate amp would solve this problem if it is a problem.

The JBL speaker leads will be attached to the back of the stock driver so that's where I'd tap in. Either strip-n-splice (wire nut, crimp butt connector, twist-n-tape) or something like a 3m wire tap that makes a connection without stripping.

If you were happy with the stock sub, you could also watch eBay and the various Toyota/4R forum forsale sections. People periodically rip out the whole system to go custom, which leaves them with drivers to sell.

I know I've seen at least one install where a Polk driver was mounted without issue. Seems like I saw an eD mounted conventionally as well, but there are/were also a couple of inverted mounts done. Sometimes I get T4R, Toyota120, etc. confused...

-Brent
 
I've found a few inverted mounts on this site. I'm going for the stealth look, I don't want anything like that. I'm nearly set on the aftermarket amp. At this point, other than narrowing down my sub choice, I've got two questions. First, exact mounting depth and second, will leaving the sub unhooked cause any issues with the rest of the system? Thanks!
 
Well, I'm going better safe than sorry, I'm going with the JL. I'm hoping to pick my amp up tomorrow or Saturday, and once I know for sure I have that I'll order my sub. Then, it's just gonna be a matter of me getting my ducks in a row. I'm using the OEM sub wiring (after the amp) to connect into my speaker level inputs. My question is where should I tap for a turn on wire? I'm thinking the rear 12v plug, since I'll have that panel off anyway. I've spent hours searching, and I've not found anything with concrete measurements. I'm planning on a thorough writeup with pics and measurements of the stock enclosure. Thanks for any input!
 
I've ordered all of my equipment, should be here sometime next week. If all goes well, I'll be doing the intall that weekend. Any interest in a detailed write-up/pics? I'm not gonna waste my time if it won't help anyone out, but I'll be happy to make notes and take pics as I complete the install.
 
For subs I'm down to two choices. Opinions? I like the Polk for the extra wattage, but the JL will save me some money and I know JL is quality stuff.
Polk Audio MM840 Mobile Monitor Series 8" subwoofer at Crutchfield Signature
JL Audio 8W1v2-4 W1v2 Series 8" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com
Either would be powered with an external amp at the proper power rating.

Sorry, for taking a while to get back.

If the specs are accurate, the Polk is the better choice by a country mile, IMO.

Output from a driver is simply a function of displacement. The Polk is rated at a hair over 2.5x the displacement of that particular JL. I'm sure the JL still has considerably more output capability than the stock driver, but for relatively similar money I'd pick the Polk based on the specs alone. I also took the time to model the Polk in a 17 liter sealed enclosure and it looks like it would work very nicely.

I assume by "extra wattage" you're referring to the power rating. That number is virtually meaningless. At best, it's a thermal rating of how much power the voice coil can dissipate without melting...there's a time component to be considered as well, but the manufacturer usually don't specify how the rating was determined (there are established engineering body standards that could be used). It also doesn't mean you "need" that much power, even if it's an accurate thermal rating. Almost always, a driver is power limited by excursion before it's thermally limited. The sim I ran of the Polk said it could handle 300 watts without hitting Xmax in the JBL's 17l enclosure. Doubling power only gets you 3dB increase in output so anywhere from 150 to 300 watts would be fine. Don't forget you were likely using less than 30 watt peaks with the stock JBL sub, based on the amp's clean delivery rating.

The other factor in a driver is sensitivity. This is how much displacement you get from a given amount of power. While there is some variation from driver to driver, it's not likely to be huge. The Polk appears to really be about 82dB/1w/1m sensitive if run out in the middle of a field, not inside a car. Think about how loud even 82dB is for a minute...a typical push lawn mower is in the 90dB range. This is what I meant about not "needing" the driver's rated power. If 1 watt will get you 90dB in the car (cabin gain over that empty field), think about what even a little 100 watt amp would do. Add +3dB for every doubling of power...1,2,4,8,etc.

I actually like the look of that Polk a lot, thanks for making me aware of it. I do wish I could find some 3rd party testing that confirmed its specs. Crutchfield was showing a couple of Blaupunkt sub amps a couple of days ago for less than $80 that would make a tasty combo with it. One of these days I may actually justify this upgrade for myself.

Let us know how it turns out either way...and take lots of pictures. :-)

-Brent
 
Well, I'm going better safe than sorry, I'm going with the JL. I'm hoping to pick my amp up tomorrow or Saturday, and once I know for sure I have that I'll order my sub. Then, it's just gonna be a matter of me getting my ducks in a row. I'm using the OEM sub wiring (after the amp) to connect into my speaker level inputs. My question is where should I tap for a turn on wire? I'm thinking the rear 12v plug, since I'll have that panel off anyway. I've spent hours searching, and I've not found anything with concrete measurements. I'm planning on a thorough writeup with pics and measurements of the stock enclosure. Thanks for any input!

The power outlet sounds reasonable as long as you don't do the "constant on" mod and forget it's also triggering the amp.

The wiring diagram looks like pin 12 on the JBL amp is the turn on signal from the head unit. You could use a meter to confirm when you actually get that far. Searching may find what others have used.

It's an old thread and may be gone now. Someone that did this type of upgrade installed the second amp between the JBL amp and the body panel. Seems like he went so far as to use a copper sheet to help with cooling the amp. Wish I'd bookmarked it, but it may have still disappeared with one of the forum software upgrades.

-Brent
 
I've got a 03 Limited with the JBL system. My rear sub is making all sorts of noises, so I'm pretty sure it's blown. I am gonna replace it, just not sure what with. The easy solution is the same JBL sub, but I've never been impressed and from what I can tell it's over $350. I wanted to use the factory amp to power a new sub, but looks like I need a 8" 2 ohm DVC sub, and they don't make one that'll fit (mounting depth is 4" if the info I got was correct). However, there are a variety of options available in a 4 ohm SVC. From what I've read, pairing this with the stock amp won't yield good results. So, looks like I may be going with a aftermarket amp. Is there anything special I need to hook an amp up with the JBL system? I've read about using speaker level inputs and the 12V plug for a turn on wire. Any issues with the rest of the system if the sub is unplugged from the amp? I'm looking at shallow mounts from Kicker, Pioneer, and Kenwood. JL Audio has a 8" w1 sub with a depth of less than 3.5" that would work as well and is at the top of my list at the moment.

I just traded my 05 4Runner for an 2010 and removed the JL Stealthbox and appropriate JL 250 Amp - they now sit in my garage (couldn't stomach turning them over to the dealer.)

The sub and amp are in great condition - family vehicle mostly and wanted a little more "umpf" to the music - but not blowing out windows and kids ears.

Make me a reasonable offer and cover shipping from WI and they are yours

Here's a link to the box (the only difference is the stealth sub cover is covered fabric grey vice the black grill on the website photo.)
Toyota 4Runner Stealthbox by JL Audio

Thanks
Shawn
 
I saw the thread you're talking about, he did use copper to mount the amp behind the JBL stock amp. No problem on the delay, but wish it was a little sooner. I've already placed the order for my sub/amp and it's already been shipped out. I could always try returning, but I'd rather not. I was pretty happy with the stock system, so I'm sure the JL sub will be a big improvement. I've confirmed the specs on the Polk, 4" is the proper mounting depth. I ended up going with the JL. They're known for quality SQ woofers, and I finally got tired of going back and forth on options and placed the order. I got the JL 8w1v2 and also a mono JL amp that'll push 175 watts RMS at 4 ohms. It should make a great combo, we'll see how it works out. I have no use for the rear 12V outlet, I probably won't do the constant on mod so it shouldn't be an issue. I'll try to take thorough pics, should be an interesting install.
 
I just traded my 05 4Runner for an 2010 and removed the JL Stealthbox and appropriate JL 250 Amp - they now sit in my garage (couldn't stomach turning them over to the dealer.)

The sub and amp are in great condition - family vehicle mostly and wanted a little more "umpf" to the music - but not blowing out windows and kids ears.

Make me a reasonable offer and cover shipping from WI and they are yours

Here's a link to the box (the only difference is the stealth sub cover is covered fabric grey vice the black grill on the website photo.)
Toyota 4Runner Stealthbox by JL Audio

Thanks
Shawn

Wow, again, little too late as I've already ordered the sub/amp. If I'd not already ordered the stuff we'd be talking.
 
Wow, again, little too late as I've already ordered the sub/amp. If I'd not already ordered the stuff we'd be talking.

Sorry, just caught the post. Figure I would throw it out there for you.
Good luck - I'm sure you will like the upgrade and improved sound quality,
 
Just got finished installing it, took a long time but all went well. I need to adjust the settings on the amp before I really know, but from the 2 minutes on listening today it will sound great. Thanks for the help, stay tuned for a writeup with pics.

Edit: Here's the writeup: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...b-added-amp-install-pics-info.html#post521509

is it possible to just remove the stock sub without replacing it with anything? My sub is blown too but I don't really want to spend the money on a new sub and amp
 

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