Sub install to stock head unit questions

[flyinhawaiian01]

Hey all,

So, I've been reading and searching everywhere for a solution to these two questions but haven't found anything so far.

First question, does anyone know if there is an output lead on the stock deck for an amp turn-on? If not, is there an actual amp for the stock deck, or are all speakers powered directly from the deck? How is everyone who's running amps to the stock head unit turning their amp on and off? Are you guys just wiring to the ACC wire and having it on whenever the key's on?

That brings me to the next question, if there is an actual amp somewhere, has anyone had luck trying to tap into the low level input for adding on another amp? And where is it located?

I have two amps, one with a crossover but no high level input, and the other a high level input but no crossover! I was hoping to install just the amp without an extra crossover network.

Thanks for any help!

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Well, I guess nobody's screwed around with a stock deck yet, so I'll see if I can find the time this weekend to pull mine out and probe the pins at the back to see if there's any low level and remote turn on pins that aren't being used!

If not, I'll wire the amp turn-on to ACC and run a hi/low level converter. If I do, I'll post what I find here for others.

 

[On Point]

that'd be awesome if you did a write up on this.

 

[Auntie Soshul]

Which stock system do you have? The one in my 2013 is the basic, 8-speaker, non-nav, non-Entune system, and it doesn't have an amp. The more high-end systems may include an amp, but I'll let those who have them chime in on that. Your owners manual will contain a description of what your system includes.

Plenty of people have installed subs, amps, speakers, and new head units in their 5th gens. I know, because I searched the forum and read volumes of information about all the possibilities and various combinations that owners have used.

A line-output controller(LOC) may be useful when you add an amp to the stock head unit. In any case, the amp will power on when it detects a signal from the head unit, so no ACC connection should be necessary. You'll still need to run power to the amp, of course.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

I've got the non-entune unit, should be the same as your system. You may not realize it, but I have seen several stock units that have output pins which aren't connected to anything in the vehicle's wiring plugs, and by stuffing the correct pin into the molex connectors, you can get a lot of other things that aren't normally found on a "stock deck". The only way to find out if this is possible on our version is to see if there's a wire in every spot on the molex plug going into the deck, and that every connector on the deck has something plugged into it. This is what I'll check out over the weekend if I have the time to pull it out of the dash.

Unfortunately, I'll be using an older PPI amp, and while your amp may be able to sense the incoming signal from just the RCA connector (although I haven't seen one that does this yet), mine does not which means I need to either install one of these:

Pac-Audio.com Product Details | iPod Integration for your car and More by Pac-Audio - Connecting you to the future

Or just wire directly to the ACC circuit.

What I hope to find on the back of that head unit is an unused din-type of jack, I'm pretty sure it will have at least a turn on wire in there, and possibly low-level outputs for maybe a dealer-installed sub or something.

I am suspicious about the 4 runner not having an amp though, with that party mode button, I'm thinking there's an amp somewhere that the button controls the output from the deck! Of course, if the wires run directly back to the head unit from the party mode switch, then you're most likely correct that the amp is built into the head unit itself.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Well, thought I'd update this thread, seems there are no 12v remote turn on pins from the head unit, but there is a 6v out from 2 pins (and I forgot what colors they were now). I didn't feel like wiring in a relay for the amp, so I did a quick test using the ACC wire to the turn on wire on my amp.

No pops, no weird noises, so I just ran it back to the amp. Not quite happy with the sound from the sub connected to the rear outputs of the HU, seems this deck cuts the bass output to the speakers as you turn the volume up. This makes the sub louder at low volumes, but drops off at the higher volumes.

Combined with the party mode button, it just makes it sound strange and not linear, and there's really no way to get it tuned properly in either setting. I'm gonna pull the deck again and try wiring the input to the amp to the front speakers to see if that alleviates the problem.

Interestingly, the HU cuts bass off at exactly 31hz! It rolls off to almost nothing at 28hz. The rears are about 2 hz higher than that, but as the volume is changed the bass cuts off higher.

I have a feeling that I will need to replace the HU if I want it to sound right...

 

[4Rager]

I installed a capacitor with my system, so I just used a fuse tap then continued the turn on wire with the power wire all the way to the amp. As far as getting a signal from the HU to the amp, the lack of bass is likely from the line out converter you are using. Since I plan on sticking with the stock HU and I got a 5 channel amp to power the speakers as well, I used an http://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-LC6i/dp/B002T4XR78/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421346791&sr=8-1&keywords=lc6i&pebp=1421346805833&peasin=B002T4XR78

I have the entune with nav, and my system does not cut the bass as you turn it up. However, if yours does they make another version of the line out converter I listed above that specifically says it's designed to compensate for HU's like yours that reduce bass frequencies at higher volumes.
http://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-LC7i-BLACK-LC7I/dp/B00ATHBO86/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421346791&sr=8-2&keywords=lc6i&pebp=1421346922597&peasin=B00ATHBO86

Looks like this might do it too, since you only have a sub amp.
http://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-2-Channel-Converter-Subwoofer-Control/dp/B004CTBYGE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1421346791&sr=8-4&keywords=lc6i&pebp=1421346947906&peasin=B004CTBYGE

 

[BigRyan1986]

I dont know if you figured it out yet or not i only browsed. You can run a jumper wire from the power side of the amp to the remote wire to get it hard wired and you can put a toggle switch on that wire to manually turn it on or off. If you want it to work with the key you can pull the power from a cigarette lighter if they turn on with the key. Its only a signal wire basically so it shouldn't really draw that much extra power. Thats how i would do it. I have a 2nd gen and have a aftermarket deck so im working with a whole other animal

 

[marlinsfan]

Hey all,

So, I've been reading and searching everywhere for a solution to these two questions but haven't found anything so far.

First question, does anyone know if there is an output lead on the stock deck for an amp turn-on? If not, is there an actual amp for the stock deck, or are all speakers powered directly from the deck? How is everyone who's running amps to the stock head unit turning their amp on and off? Are you guys just wiring to the ACC wire and having it on whenever the key's on?

That brings me to the next question, if there is an actual amp somewhere, has anyone had luck trying to tap into the low level input for adding on another amp? And where is it located?

I have two amps, one with a crossover but no high level input, and the other a high level input but no crossover! I was hoping to install just the amp without an extra crossover network.

Thanks for any help!

Hi, I added 2 amps, a sub and replaced all the speakers and kept stock HU on my 2014 SR5 Premium Entune system. My original setup did not have an amp.

I was not able to find a lead to turn on the amp coming out of the HU, so I tapped into the cigarette lighter that's in the center console. The amps are always on when the car is on, but no big deal for me as my stereo is always on.

My amps don't have high level inputs, only the RCA low levels. I bought 2 sets of hi level to rca converters. The first (rockford fosgate) did not work with my rockford fosgate amp. The 2nd worked just fine. :banana: I think the learning here is that not all converters work with all amps.

These did not work:
http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosg...&qid=1421435813&sr=1-1&keywords=rca+converter

These worked:
Amazon.com : Scosche Loc80 2-Channel Adjustable Lineout Converter : Power Converters : Automotive

have fun

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

I tapped ACC in the dash and ran it back with the speaker level output from the deck's rear speaker harness, so the amp is turning on just fine now, its just the bass imbalance is so bad right now, I'm thinking I may just say screw it and go with a replacement head unit.

I've been out of the car audio scene for many years, so all this new gadgetry has me re-learning stuff all over again! I had a car audio shop back in Honolulu back in the late 80's through the 90's, but after I got out of it, I just kept my old amps and would change a deck out whenever I bought a new vehicle. Hell, I'm still using an old Collins 8" 5th order box in the back of the 4 runner! They've been outta business for probably 20 years now!!!

I might try the LC-2 out next, see if I can tune it a bit better than the PAC SNI-50A that I'm using right now, at the very least, it auto-senses audio and sends the remote out signal to the amp.

I'll post back when I figure out a solution to the uncontrollable bass syndrome! Still wanna try pulling off the front door speakers to see if the deck is just pulling the bass down in the rear only when volume goes up. I know a lot of Chevy cars did this back in the 90's, it was to keep them from blowing speakers out in rental cars!!!

 

[Doc_Fry]

Well, I guess nobody's screwed around with a stock deck yet, so I'll see if I can find the time this weekend to pull mine out and probe the pins at the back to see if there's any low level and remote turn on pins that aren't being used!

If not, I'll wire the amp turn-on to ACC and run a hi/low level converter. If I do, I'll post what I find here for others.

There are also units that will sense the voltage on the head unit's speaker wires and then send a +12 volt signal to the remote wire. These units are an option for those who do not want their equipment on full time (when the ignition is on) and also don't want to wire in a switch. PAC makes some very popular ones such as the TR4 or TR7. David Navone also has an inexpensive model available that has a full amp of current output (you can add more components to it without needing an external relay).

Another issue you can run into with factory head units is the lack of RCA outputs. For this you will either need an adapter to convert the speaker output signal to an RCA signal or an amplifier with a built in adapter. These are often referred to as high level to low level adapters or speaker level to RCA adapters. They run $10-30 and are available at car audio shops and related businesses. For premium systems such as Bose, JBL, Infinity, etc. you will likely need a specialized adapter. Companies such as PAC and Precision Interface Electronics all make these type of interfaces. For even more advanced factory systems that also require re-equalization look to Alpine (Imprint), AudioControl (DQL-8), JL Audio (CleanSweep) and Rockford Fosgate (3Sixty.3).

If you need a total solution call the guys at Wicked CAS. They did me right with my FJ doing a custom sub enclosure and the like with a Kenwood Nav Unit. But they do so,e amazing work and are very reasonable.

I hope this helps.

Steve

 

[Auntie Soshul]

But how about the rear doors? Are they run in parallel with the hatch speakers from the RR/RL speaker leads from the headunit? If they are then I would need to run new wires from the amp to the rear doors. This would leave the hatch speakers to run off the headunit stock wiring since I am just tapping the rear leads on the metra harness for my rear door speaker signal.

Is that how the rears are wired or is there a discrete sete of outputs from the headunit for the hatch?

Since you don't have Party Mode, this post may or may not help you determine how the rear speakers are wired, but just in case: Part Mode Tweak

 

[uood8]

There is a 12v switched at the headunit, I can't remember what the wire color is though. Its been a while since i added my subwoofer.

 

[marlinsfan]

But how about the rear doors? Are they run in parallel with the hatch speakers from the RR/RL speaker leads from the headunit?

Rear doors and hatch speakers run from the same wires coming out of the HU.

Front doors and dash also run from same wires (but not the same set as the rear of course)

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

So, after taking 4Rager's recommendation, I finally got an AudioControl LC2i for the sub, as the loud bass at low volumes and non-existent bass at higher volumes has been driving me crazy!

YEAH! Super easy to install, creates an amp remote turn on from sensing the audio input from the stock deck, and it allows me to dial in where in the range of the volume control that the bass should be boosted, as well as how much it needs to be brought up to be linear.

Its still not perfectly linear with the lc2i, but its very close and sounds so much better than the non-electronic converter I was using.

Anyone adding an amp, crossover and sub to the stock non-entune head unit should just break down and get the lc2i and not waste any time with hi-low level converters!

Thanks folks, y'all rock!!!

:rockon:

 

[tigger]

Just put in a head unit you lazy weasel :lol: I might have a sparkomatic cassette deck you can use.

Oh wait, you are spoiled by the steering wheel voice activation. Our First World problems... :bash:

Glad you solved the bass issue. Now to hide that sub so it doesn't take up third of the rear area :hiding:

 

[4Rager]

I have this one:

JL Audio CS112RG-W3v3 Sealed PowerWedge™ enclosure with one 12" W3v3 subwoofer at Crutchfield.com

It doesn't take up that much space and hits hard with 500w rms. The only other sub I've owned is a 12" Alpine Type R, and as expect this significantly outperforms that. I was debating this vs. a 10" W6 (which would have been a lot more expensive) and the only benefit was an additional 100w RMW power handling, which my amp couldn't provide. The W6 would have cost a decent amount more too, so I'm definitely happy with the purchase.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Just put in a head unit you lazy weasel :lol: I might have a sparkomatic cassette deck you can use.

Oh wait, you are spoiled by the steering wheel voice activation. Our First World problems... :bash:

Glad you solved the bass issue. Now to hide that sub so it doesn't take up third of the rear area :hiding:

Look here, ya little bastard!:horn:

BWWAAAHAHAHA!!! What's up Brian! Its about time I see some posts from ya!

You have to excuse him, folks. Its his first time owning a toyota, the last vehicle he had was a JEEP!!! :doh:

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

I have this one:

I actually love my sub, its an old 5th order sub from Collins, they've been out of business for probably 15 years, used to be a dealer for them when I had my car audio shop in Hawaii.

I actually have several of them left, they have always been awesome for bass and don't take up a lot of room (except for the 10" box, its about the size of the whole rear area of the 4R!).

All of my stuff is pretty much oldskool stuff from the 80's and 90's! Nothing like a good ol' PPI amp and Collins box to add a "little" bass to the stock unit! :rockon:

Hell, I've got stuff from A/D/S, Soundstream, and I believe even an eq from Proton! Yeah, I'm old...

 

[TStaples]

It sounds like you really know your way around the system in your truck! Please forgive me if this sounds like a rather naive question, it's been probably close to 10 years since I've tinkered with a car stereo and I've never added a sub to a factory head unit at all, let alone one with nav, but I still have an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 250 amp that I'd like to wire into my wife's 2013 4Runner Trail w/nav and JBL Audio to run a single 8" JL Audio minisub. I gather there's an easy "plug n' play" way to go about this, but I'm not sure what I really need to buy. I'm just looking to add some "punch" (no pun intended) to the factory sound, so I'm not going for competition class sound quality or anything. Any suggestions regarding adapters, harnesses, line converters, etc?

I do have some experience with car audio, so I'm confident I won't have to pester you for clarification on much (unless a LOT has changed). I had a great setup in a truck I had years ago, running 2 JL 12W6 subs with independent Fosgate Punch 500 amps pushing each and a 4 channel PPI amp running MB Quart component mids/highs, which I installed myself, but I had an Eclipse head unit running the show, and to give you an idea of how long ago that was, the fact that it could read MP3 files burned onto CD was cutting edge at the time .