Subaru vs Volvo up a muddy hill (video)

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Wow...what a difference! The Volvo looks like it's not sending any power to the rear wheels...it looks like a 2wd car!

The Subaru AWD system is pretty good from what i hear. If you go up to the north, then you will that Subaru is very popular.

Questions:

1. Ford Escape can lock the center diff with a push button. Can Volvo do the same?? From the video, it sure looks like nothing was locked.

2. I don't see where traction control was activated in the Volvo. Does it have traction control system? I don't see any braking of the slipping wheel(s).

3. I think that Subaru uses a Torsen center diff.

Anyway, i don't have an explanation. I have not read up on these car's AWD system. Interesting contrast though...wow.
 
Thai said:

Questions:

1. Ford Escape can lock the center diff with a push button. Can Volvo do the same?? From the video, it sure looks like nothing was locked.


Ford made some slight changes to the 4wd system starting with the '04 (I think) model year. From that year forward, the system does not have any type of locking mechanism for the center diff. The switch on the dashboard just disappeared and full control was given to an onboard computer! From what I've read, the Volvo uses the same exact "intelligent" system from the Ford.
 
Not sure I believe that one... looks to me like the Volvo is a 2wd (front) model. Can an AWD system really be that bad??!
 
Fourty-four said:
Ford made some slight changes to the 4wd system starting with the '04 (I think) model year. From that year forward, the system does not have any type of locking mechanism for the center diff. The switch on the dashboard just disappeared and full control was given to an onboard computer! From what I've read, the Volvo uses the same exact "intelligent" system from the Ford.

Wow...really?! I am outdated! What's the use of having AWD with that type of capability?!!
 
qballjr13 said:
I bet our T4R's can pull both of them up that incline at the same time :runaway:

I'd love to see some sort of comparison of the 4Runner vs other SUVs (maybe a Quadradrive II Jeep, for example) on an uphill slippery slope.

Last winter, I was messing around in one of our better snow storms (about 15-18 inches), and I came across a two-level parking lot in a small shopping center. To get to the upper level lot, you have to drive up a concrete slope that is approximately 15 degrees. The slope was covered in snow with hard packed ice underneath. Even with my stock Dunlops, I had no trouble making it up if I started at the bottom and kept the momentum steady.

However, if I stopped in the middle of the ramp, I could not move forward at all. I tried different ways many times (4 hi, 4 lo, center diff locked/unlocked etc..), but was unable to make it after stopping mid way up. In fact, I slid backwards with the brakes fully locked, back down the hill.

I also found it interesting to realize that if you lock all 4 wheels while sliding down an ice-covered hill, your ABS will not function. With all 4 wheels fully locked, the ABS does not recognize that the vehicle is moving and will be of no use at all.
 
Fourty-four said:



However, if I stopped in the middle of the ramp, I could not move forward at all. I tried different ways many times (4 hi, 4 lo, center diff locked/unlocked etc..), but was unable to make it after stopping mid way up. In fact, I slid backwards with the brakes fully locked, back down the hill.

I also found it interesting to realize that if you lock all 4 wheels while sliding down an ice-covered hill, your ABS will not function. With all 4 wheels fully locked, the ABS does not recognize that the vehicle is moving and will be of no use at all.

This kind of stuff scare's me about the 4R and the electronic 4x4 stuff. Even when I was off road in slippery mud on Sunday and trying to get traction, buzzing from anti lock's , light's flashing , beeping from VSC , me feeling out of control and can't play with the throttle because it cut's off. I'm old school 4x4 and can accept change with auto hub's , fulltime 4x systems,push button / switch type 4x4 engage feature's , but as much as I love this 4R I feel uncertain about these thing's off road ( very uncertain !! ) I think as far as off road SUV goes I think Toyota's going in the wrong direction with this stuff. If they want to cater to the yuppie market then there on the mark. Atleast have a disable switch for all these feature's and I'd be ok with it . It's like an awsome go anywhere 4x4 system , but then again I wonder what they were thinking. Kinda rambling but I hope you get my drift of where I'm going with this. AM I WRONG ???

Our 04 Ford Escape V6 Sport has a lock 4x4 mode switch. Normally run's in auto 4x4 mode where the front wheel's drive and the back's kick in when slippage occur's . In 4x4 lock it does just that and lock's front and back together for a 50/50 split.

Also that Volvo sure seemed like a 2wd. There was no power transfer at all.....not good !!
 
Can anyone here translate Swedish? I bet that guy on the tape is telling us what the Volvo and Subaru specs are. It looks like the Volvo is two-wheel drive. Can the front wheels spin without the rear wheels turning in an AWD car??
 
Falls said:
This kind of stuff scare's me about the 4R and the electronic 4x4 stuff. Even when I was off road in slippery mud on Sunday and trying to get traction, buzzing from anti lock's , light's flashing , beeping from VSC , me feeling out of control and can't play with the throttle because it cut's off. I'm old school 4x4 and can accept change with auto hub's , fulltime 4x systems,push button / switch type 4x4 engage feature's , but as much as I love this 4R I feel uncertain about these thing's off road ( very uncertain !! ) I think as far as off road SUV goes I think Toyota's going in the wrong direction with this stuff. If they want to cater to the yuppie market then there on the mark. Atleast have a disable switch for all these feature's and I'd be ok with it . It's like an awsome go anywhere 4x4 system , but then again I wonder what they were thinking. Kinda rambling but I hope you get my drift of where I'm going with this. AM I WRONG ???

Our 04 Ford Escape V6 Sport has a lock 4x4 mode switch. Normally run's in auto 4x4 mode where the front wheel's drive and the back's kick in when slippage occur's . In 4x4 lock it does just that and lock's front and back together for a 50/50 split.

Also that Volvo sure seemed like a 2wd. There was no power transfer at all.....not good !!

If you do not have traction at any tire, no 4wd system in the world will get you moving. It's as simple as that. Imagine trying to drive up an ice rink that was sloped at about 15 degrees with stock tires.

For comparison, my buddy has a new Dodge Durange 4x4 Hemi. He doesn't have all the electronic stuff on his Durango that we have on the 4Runner, and he SLID BACKWARDS while spinning his tires trying to climb the same icy ramp.

As far as the Escape is concerned--it doesn't really have a locking feature. If you read up on the system, you'll see that it just engages the rear wheels quicker and possibly more securely using a rotary blade coupling. I guess it was the '05 model year that Ford changed to the "intelligent" 4wd system, which means no more dashboard switch.
 
Subaru's rock. Our Forester is a little mule. I have a friend who tows a 14ft johnboat with his Forester and he also owns a Tacoma. Kinda funny that he prefers to tow with the Forester over the Taco. I have pulled stuck Jeeps out of snow banks with the Subie. For a 'car' based SUV, it holds its own.

That 'Cross Country' Volvo is a joke.
 
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I hope they used similar tires on both vehicles.

It does show how ineffective the Ford/Volvo system is a transferring power.
 
All things being equal, did they both have the same type of tires? You guys know first hand that a 4X4 with crappy tires can get its A** whipped by a two wheel drive cars with good tires any day of the week in slippery situations. Believe me I am not a real Volvo fan but want to be fair about things.:confused:
 
If you read the posts on the video someone translated it and both vehicles have the same tires but both vehicles are 2001 models and supposedly there have been changes.

The bottom line is 4wd/awd's are NOT created equal. You will know this if you have been off-road with these vehicles.

Koz
 
I guess I missed the post on the tire facts. What type of tires were they? And I have never seen these vehicles off the beaten path.
 
Fourty-four said:

As far as the Escape is concerned--it doesn't really have a locking feature. If you read up on the system, you'll see that it just engages the rear wheels quicker and possibly more securely using a rotary blade coupling. I guess it was the '05 model year that Ford changed to the "intelligent" 4wd system, which means no more dashboard switch.
[/QUOTE
Fourt-four,
I looked it up in the manual and when locked it's equal power to all wheel's and not recommended for pavement driving only extreme snow and mud and off pavement driving. When in auto mode then front wheel's drive at all time until slippage is detected and power is transferred until the slippage detection goes away and resumes to the front.

That's kind of why we got it because of the locking 4x feature for the wife. I'ts been a while so I thought I might have been mistaken so I had to look it up.

I would'nt say it's an off roader but I'm sure it would put those 2 car's to shame. It also has BS Dueller AT's on it now. I must say it has been a flawless vehicle with not 1 problem except a rear wiper blade/arm replacement. I've driven this in auto mode and lock mode in some pretty deep snow and it's pretty damn good , especially in the lock position. I can't answer for the 05 and later Escape's with the electronic 4x sensor system instead of the auto/lock switch.

I'm still confused about the Volvo....there's no way that can be AWD. or it's a dome crappy system designed for on road only. I've never like AWD system where stuff transfer's all over , it's either partime or fulltime 4x4 for me. AWD's are ok for a car , not an SUV or truck if you plan off pavement driving.
 
Falls,

Here is a copy/paste of an atricle that appeared in Car and Driver on the Escape 4wd system:



Contrary to what you'll be told by the dashboard markings, your Ford Outfitter salesperson, and even Ford's press materials, the Escape's Control Trac II system does not offer fully locked four-wheel drive. Rather, this on-demand all-wheel-drive setup only sends power to the rear axle when the front wheels slip. Here's how it works:
In the "4x4 Auto" mode, 100 percent of the torque is sent to the front wheels until a wheel slips. When that happens, a rotary blade coupling (RBC) generates enough pressure to activate a multiplate clutch, like that found in an automatic transmission, which sends torque (as much as 100 percent of it) to the rear. At the heart of the RBC is a "fan" with three blades in a chamber filled with a silicone fluid like that used in viscous couplings. The fan is shaped kind of like the warning symbol for radiation. When the front wheels slip, this fan spins through the fluid, heating and expanding it, which generates the pressure to activate the clutch. Then the clutch--not the viscous fluid -- bears the burden of transmitting the torque.

When set to "4x4 On," an electromagnet energizes a small clutch pack, locking a ball ramp to the input shaft. Now when the front wheels spin, they turn the ball ramp, which overrides the RBC and pressurizes the same multiplate clutch pack. In the "4x4 On" mode, the rear axle is engaged quicker and more securely. The front and rear axles are, however, never locked together, except during front-wheel slippage. That way, there is never any crabbing or binding in tight turns, and there's no need for a center differential.
 
I was just telling you exactly what is stated in the manual. I can't answer for the Control Trac II since it's not mentioned anywhere in the 4wd system/ manual we have. In 4 lock or on or whatever you want to call it I know it's damn near impossible to turn on dry pavement and buck's like a reg. 4x4 does. I have never felt any slippage when it's in the on/lock position in snow (although I try to avoid driving it at all cost's...lol). You can def. feel the slippage in the on/auto mode though. I know control trac II is on the Explorer but no mention of this system on the little turd. Like I said I don't know about 05 and above or below 03 , but it's not mentioned anywhere in my book or from my experiences , I could be totally wrong just going on what is stated in the manual and my little driving experience's with it in snow. ( very little ) the wife know's how I like to have fun 4x ing in adverse condition's so she keep's me away from it as much as possible.

Don't know what to say...I know there is no t-case ect... but ??? it states in the on/lock position "Full power to all wheel's at all time's, not intended for use on dry or wet roads,only deep snow,deep sand and icyroads" it states that 3 time's and also states that doing so will wreck the driveline and using a spare of a different diameter with cause major mechanical issue's. I personally know how it drives and handle's in 4wd and what the manual states , can't really answer for the article finding's ?? or the Control Trac II thing , we have no indication of having control trac II system.

Hey maybe I can sue Ford for false advertising....lol....can't get water from a rock though.

Does the article specify what year's they are talking about ?

How could a large mfg. get away's with stating something in the manual and the brochure ( wife save's everything ) if it's relatively true or accurate and not have people bitchin or filing claim's against them, say even if someone's was in a crash and came back and said they lost control of their vehicle because they thought they had a full time locked in 4x4 and they did'nt so it skidded out of control.
 
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