Supercharger or bust...

[T4RunnerSteve]

Hey guys —

After two years of collecting dust on my workbench I’m finally ready to install my TRD Supercharger. I installed the EVO 8 fuel pump, UEGO Wideband O2, Boomslang harness and AEM FIC-6 and the truck still runs great. My question is — should I:

A) Install the larger (380) fuel injectors and tune it naturally aspirated

B) Install these larger injectors and tune with the supercharger

As my next step? I’d obviously prefer to cut to the chase and do “B” -

What would you do?

Thanks as always!
-Steve

 

[gamefreakgc]

380's are HUGE for this supercharger, the stock injectors are 240cc's. I have 310cc's and it's a little too much fuel at times but pretty good at high RPM's, I do have an extra 225cc water/meth injector though. You can get a decent tune with the AEM with the stock injectors alone though, there's real power to be gained by skewing the O2 sensor in closed loop.

I don't recommend going through the trouble of tuning it pre-supercharger, however, would you mind redlining it and posting up what the maximum MAF voltage is? I really need that for my tune and I'm not able to get that data. I'd be forever grateful!

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

Appreciate the feedback! I am planning on upgrading to the 2.1” pulley and wasn’t going to add meth so that was my thinking behind 380s. Will probably have heat soak so don’t hold me to the no meth thing

As for the MAF reading — that is literally one of the two things I was going to do prior to installing:

1) datalogging the stock setup with the AEM (for MAF clamp, etc)
2) compression test - figure i’m changing the spark plugs - why not

I am a little nervous about how this is going to run the moment I go to start it with the supercharger and 380s, untuned. I think the term being thrown around is “pig rich” — which I suppose is better than lean and hot. Hoping the fuel map with the injector skew (old size, new size) can quickly get me into the ballpark. Any tips on tuning with this situation?

Thanks again!

 

[phattyduck]

there's real power to be gained by skewing the O2 sensor in closed loop.

He can't skew his O2 sensor - he has the "CA Emissions" Air-fuel sensor.

Just doing the calculation on the new vs. old injector size will work fine to get the truck started and driving.

If you have all the parts, why tear the top end down twice to do the injectors, then do it again for the supercharger?

-Charlie

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

He can't skew his O2 sensor - he has the "CA Emissions" Air-fuel sensor.

Just doing the calculation on the new vs. old injector size will work fine to get the truck started and driving.

If you have all the parts, why tear the top end down twice to do the injectors, then do it again for the supercharger?

-Charlie

Thank you — this is what I was hoping to hear: the injectors are in pretty deep so doing them twice wouldn’t be so fun. Going to give it a go and let you guys know how it goes. Anything else I should be doing in the AEM FIC-6 besides the injector resize in the fuel map and MAF clamp before starting for the first time with the bigger injectors and supercharger?

 

[gamefreakgc]

He can't skew his O2 sensor - he has the "CA Emissions" Air-fuel sensor.

Just doing the calculation on the new vs. old injector size will work fine to get the truck started and driving.

If you have all the parts, why tear the top end down twice to do the injectors, then do it again for the supercharger?

-Charlie

He most certainly can, he has the AEM FIC-6 which is what I have, not the URD unit.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Appreciate the feedback! I am planning on upgrading to the 2.1” pulley and wasn’t going to add meth so that was my thinking behind 380s. Will probably have heat soak so don’t hold me to the no meth thing ��

As for the MAF reading — that is literally one of the two things I was going to do prior to installing:

1) datalogging the stock setup with the AEM (for MAF clamp, etc)
2) compression test - figure i’m changing the spark plugs - why not

I am a little nervous about how this is going to run the moment I go to start it with the supercharger and 380s, untuned. I think the term being thrown around is “pig rich” — which I suppose is better than lean and hot. Hoping the fuel map with the injector skew (old size, new size) can quickly get me into the ballpark. Any tips on tuning with this situation?

Thanks again!

It's going to run really, really rough the first start so be ready for that. With the 310 cc's that come from URD, you don't have to tune the engine under vacuum but with 380's you will probably have to so it doesn't throw a rich code. It's not a sure thing though, so let it complete a few complete cycles (pull the EFI fuse in the engine bay before first startup) of cold, warming up, then driving around town. The short-term fuel trims should adjust fairly quickly but until the long-term fuel trims are set it will still be wonky at startup.

Also, ever since putting in the AEM unit sometimes at warm startups it takes forever to crank over. If this happens to you, don't freak out, it will start but not really sure why it does that.

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

Thank you. So... even though I will set the new injector size in the AEM before startup it will still run poorly? (I guess the LT fuel trims need to adjust?). Definitely a little nervous about this first start. @MTD - feeling like making a trip to CT?

As for that startup phenomena - I thought I was going crazy: it happened to me once (out of probably eight startups). It sounded almost like the battery was low but eventually started.

Anyone know a good tuning shop in CT?

It's going to run really, really rough the first start so be ready for that. With the 310 cc's that come from URD, you don't have to tune the engine under vacuum but with 380's you will probably have to so it doesn't throw a rich code. It's not a sure thing though, so let it complete a few complete cycles (pull the EFI fuse in the engine bay before first startup) of cold, warming up, then driving around town. The short-term fuel trims should adjust fairly quickly but until the long-term fuel trims are set it will still be wonky at startup.

Also, ever since putting in the AEM unit sometimes at warm startups it takes forever to crank over. If this happens to you, don't freak out, it will start but not really sure why it does that.

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

Compression test complete - all came in 197-205 psi so between that and the good looking spark plugs I’m still feeling good about this JDM engine. Going to study the data I got from my last NA runs to see what I got for max MAF voltage. Ran the heck out of it - highway speed hills, merging, passing - definitely a good baseline for what it was like stock.

MAF clamp and injector resize in the fuel map. Pulled the EFI fuse - thank you for that. Anything else I should be doing before starting it with the 380 (pink Denso) injectors, cooler plugs and the 2.37 (stock pulley) TRD Supercharger? AEM FiC-6 is ready for action.

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

I don't recommend going through the trouble of tuning it pre-supercharger, however, would you mind redlining it and posting up what the maximum MAF voltage is? I really need that for my tune and I'm not able to get that data. I'd be forever grateful!

After a ton of spirited NA driving - entrance ramps, passing, hills, etc, the highest MAF reading I got was 4.022

Now... a couple things I’ve noticed which may or may not be normal:

Highest RPM I hit - pedal to the metal - was 4733. Could my throttle cable adjustment be to blame or does my truck just not want to hit 5500? Throttle reading registered a peak of 100.6.

Highest injector % - again, stock injectors here - 71

AFR... hit 18.8 quite a bit. Stock - no supercharger on these runs - is this normal?

Finally... does the AEM FIC-6 not pickup fuel or ignition trims? I have no meaningful data on this in the logging.

 

[gamefreakgc]

After a ton of spirited NA driving - entrance ramps, passing, hills, etc, the highest MAF reading I got was 4.022

Now... a couple things I’ve noticed which may or may not be normal:

Highest RPM I hit - pedal to the metal - was 4733. Could my throttle cable adjustment be to blame or does my truck just not want to hit 5500? Throttle reading registered a peak of 100.6.

Highest injector % - again, stock injectors here - 71

AFR... hit 18.8 quite a bit. Stock - no supercharger on these runs - is this normal?

Finally... does the AEM FIC-6 not pickup fuel or ignition trims? I have no meaningful data on this in the logging.

1. 4700 is not normal. You should be seeing around 5400 RPM, so that MAF reading is also low since it draws more air at higher RPM's. If you have the physical cable, tighten it down a little but not so much it holds the throttle plate open, obviously.

2. Injector pulse is fine for 4700 RPM.

3. 18.8 isn't normal. Do you have a vacuum leak anywhere? Maybe near the AFR sensor where you are getting the reading?

4. It does not read fuel trims. I highly recommend getting a bluetooth reader and getting the Torque Pro app, it's only $5. Only way to read short and long term fuel trims. Same with ignition timing.

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

1. 4700 is not normal. You should be seeing around 5400 RPM, so that MAF reading is also low since it draws more air at higher RPM's. If you have the physical cable, tighten it down a little but not so much it holds the throttle plate open, obviously.

2. Injector pulse is fine for 4700 RPM.

3. 18.8 isn't normal. Do you have a vacuum leak anywhere? Maybe near the AFR sensor where you are getting the reading?

4. It does not read fuel trims. I highly recommend getting a bluetooth reader and getting the Torque Pro app, it's only $5. Only way to read short and long term fuel trims. Same with ignition timing.

So I think it's a case of the throttle cable being too loose. Time to break out the PB blaster for that... that pair of nuts is pretty rusted -- one in particular is going to need some coaxing to move. Sorry that I wasn't able to get the MAF at 5400 :-(

RE: the high AFR, it happens when I quickly decelerate -- as in I'm screaming down the highway and somebody pulls in front of me and I have to really get on the brakes -- AFR spikes for a few seconds and then recovers to ~14.7. Would that still imply a vacuum leak? The "cam breather" hose coming into the side of the intake setup is a little bit sketchy at the end... as is the little hose that goes to the air box.

Guessing my ScanGauge II isn't up for the job on trims? Does the Torque Pro App allow you to log to the computer? (and bump up against the logging from the FIC-6?) That would be pretty awesome.

 

[phattyduck]

RE: the high AFR, it happens when I quickly decelerate -- as in I'm screaming down the highway and somebody pulls in front of me and I have to really get on the brakes -- AFR spikes for a few seconds and then recovers to ~14.7. Would that still imply a vacuum leak? The "cam breather" hose coming into the side of the intake setup is a little bit sketchy at the end... as is the little hose that goes to the air box.

High AFR is totally normal when coasting. The ECU cuts fuel - you are actually at infinite AFR, 18.8 was just the highest reading it could report.

It recovers to 14.7-ish when the ECU starts injecting fuel again.

-Charlie

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

High AFR is totally normal when coasting. The ECU cuts fuel - you are actually at infinite AFR, 18.8 was just the highest reading it could report.

It recovers to 14.7-ish when the ECU starts injecting fuel again.

-Charlie

Thanks Charlie. That's a relief -- it's definitely where I saw those spikes (UEGO went to ---)

Does the bluetooth OBDII and app record data in a similar way as the AEM FIC-6 software? If so, is there a way to "marry them up"? Would be great to see exactly what else is going on when the trims are all over the place.

 

[gamefreakgc]

So I think it's a case of the throttle cable being too loose. Time to break out the PB blaster for that... that pair of nuts is pretty rusted -- one in particular is going to need some coaxing to move. Sorry that I wasn't able to get the MAF at 5400 :-(

RE: the high AFR, it happens when I quickly decelerate -- as in I'm screaming down the highway and somebody pulls in front of me and I have to really get on the brakes -- AFR spikes for a few seconds and then recovers to ~14.7. Would that still imply a vacuum leak? The "cam breather" hose coming into the side of the intake setup is a little bit sketchy at the end... as is the little hose that goes to the air box.

Guessing my ScanGauge II isn't up for the job on trims? Does the Torque Pro App allow you to log to the computer? (and bump up against the logging from the FIC-6?) That would be pretty awesome.

The Torque Pro app does allow data logging but I am having trouble getting it to work. It can dump the data in a CSV file if works but it wouldn't be able to then load into the AEC log files, it would be its own thing.

 

[rideexileex]

I have the 2.1 pulley, AEM, and about 310 injectors - 380 is way too high!

Nice bit about the 310’s is that the engine will still “run” without the AEM computer if it dies and you need to use the bypass harness

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

I have the 2.1 pulley, AEM, and about 310 injectors - 380 is way too high!

Nice bit about the 310’s is that the engine will still “run” without the AEM computer if it dies and you need to use the bypass harness

Way to make me feel good about going with the 380s :cry2:

I think my thinking at the time (when I bought them 2 years ago) was that they were super similar to stock (pink Denso instead of brown), gave me room for the 2.1 pulley and wouldn’t work as hard. I didn’t really think about running without the AEM FIC-6 — hoping it’s reliable enough not to regret these.

 

[T4RunnerSteve]

Here's what I have for my initial AEM FIC-6 maps -- attached. 02 map I left as all zeros.

Haven't turned the key yet but I believe I did reset the EFI (pulled the fuse -- left it out for a few days)

Anything look out of whack here? Concerned about damaging the engine.

 

[gamefreakgc]

You shouldn't need to clamp the MAF unless you have one of two things: 1. you are using a larger than stock intake pipe and the MAF doesn't read correctly or 2. the supercharger flows more air than the MAF can read, which isn't the case. Also, without a correct reading at full RPM (5400ish) those values might be a little low.

 

[rideexileex]

This is a rough but close map... couldn't find my newest file, and this was pre-finding a crack in the vacuum line that T'd to my computer. Most fun bit about the tuning has been the open and closed loop tuning for different parts of the map. Been pretty good so far though.

I've been playing with leaving full timing past 3000k rpm, which is when the knock senors on the factory ECU kick in.