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Did you get everything all buttoned up with the wiring and all? It's about time to try that bad boy out. This Saturday :boink:
Superman3043's Build Thread
- Thread starter superman3043
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Did you get everything all buttoned up with the wiring and all? It's about time to try that bad boy out. This Saturday :boink:
superman3043
Senior Member
Did the diff & locker breather extension that weekend I helped y'all move.
Got my new camera mounted, but have to run new wire because the old wiring is dead somewhere, so half-ass job there.
My locker harness arrived a week ago. Got it partially installed yesterday. Finished wiring it up today at lunch. Tried it out. Good news is, I think it locked.... bad news is, I don't think it's unlocking. Ugh!!! I'm gonna need to take some time to figure out what's going on with it.
Finding any time to do this junk with a 3 month old is impossible. But yes, definitely time to try it out. Ready to get this thing dirty bro!
superman3043
Senior Member
Locker/Diff Breather Extension
Did this a month ago, but haven't posted it. Pretty straight forward.
Materials I used:
- 1/4 Fuel Line
- Toyota Union P/N 90404-51026 at the diff
- 1/4" X 1/4" X 1/8" T-Fitting
- 4X 1/4" hose clamps
- 1 small zip tie
Pretty bad angle to take pictures. Exiting the Diff:
Tee:
Breather relocated to fuel fill:
I just used a small zip tie to secure the locker breather line to the tee. Did not have a worm gear clamp that small. Works fine. Nothing fancy, just wanted to put this in here.
Did this a month ago, but haven't posted it. Pretty straight forward.
Materials I used:
- 1/4 Fuel Line
- Toyota Union P/N 90404-51026 at the diff
- 1/4" X 1/4" X 1/8" T-Fitting
- 4X 1/4" hose clamps
- 1 small zip tie
Pretty bad angle to take pictures. Exiting the Diff:
Tee:
Breather relocated to fuel fill:
I just used a small zip tie to secure the locker breather line to the tee. Did not have a worm gear clamp that small. Works fine. Nothing fancy, just wanted to put this in here.
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superman3043
Senior Member
Richland Rd.
Got up in the mountains to run a little trail that we've heard about through some friends. First real outing since the baby was born for the wife and I. Friends couldn't make the run, but we decided to figure it out for ourselves. Overall it was a really nice little trail. We're pretty lucky to have something like this around here.
Stopped to let a little air out of the tires at this point. Street pressure was pretty rough over the rocks:
Pretty much the end of the trail. Didn't really stop to take any pics, we just drove the whole time:
Got to see some changing leaves along the Blue Ridge Parkway:
Took the wife for lunch and wine at 1861 Farmhouse in Valle Crucis:
Woke up with a muddy truck from the trail Sunday, so spent some time cleaning her up:
Still trying to troubleshoot my locker and finish wiring my new back-up camera. That's all for now.
Got up in the mountains to run a little trail that we've heard about through some friends. First real outing since the baby was born for the wife and I. Friends couldn't make the run, but we decided to figure it out for ourselves. Overall it was a really nice little trail. We're pretty lucky to have something like this around here.
Stopped to let a little air out of the tires at this point. Street pressure was pretty rough over the rocks:
Pretty much the end of the trail. Didn't really stop to take any pics, we just drove the whole time:
Got to see some changing leaves along the Blue Ridge Parkway:
Took the wife for lunch and wine at 1861 Farmhouse in Valle Crucis:
Woke up with a muddy truck from the trail Sunday, so spent some time cleaning her up:
Still trying to troubleshoot my locker and finish wiring my new back-up camera. That's all for now.
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superman3043
Senior Member
Backup Cam V 2.0
Finally finished installing my new back-up camera. I swear I'm the slowest person at installing these things. I take weeks doing a little at a time when I get a spare moment. There's nothing hard about it, I just seem to only be able to find 30 minute intervals to work on them.
My first camera was this one that I installed over a year and a half ago. At the time, I paid $7 for it. Looks like it's doubled in price. It stopped working after a few months right around the time of my first wheeling trip, which coincidentally was probably the first time I rolled down the back window since the install. What I think happened was the window caught a poorly routed wire (my fault) on the way down and broke a connection. My thoughts on that one? It worked fine for the price. Definitely cheap. Also the LED housings filled up with moisture and looked like shit, but I don't think I had any moisture issues with the actual lens itself.
I replaced it with this one. Cost is $16 plus $7 shipping. The differences are this one has a metal (stainless) housing vs. the plastic. It definitely has more heft to it and seems of better build quality. Greater viewing angle; 170 vs. 120 deg. This one is CCD vs. CMOS. They are of similar resolution specs, but this one does appear to have higher quality video display. That's about it.
What I wanted to do differently this time was I wanted to grab my 12v source from a constant hot when the truck was switched on. This way I can have camera at the push of a button at any time. Before I grabbed power from the reverse light, so the camera was only fed power when the truck was in reverse. After looking at a diagram and then going out and probing the rear door ECU with a meter, I found what I was looking for. For those interested I tapped the small black wire going into the main harness of the rear door ECU for my power. Also grabbed my common from the thick white with black stripe wire in that location. This also saves you from having to run power back to the tail light, which is sort of a pain. The RCA video wires that these cameras come with are probably plenty long for an average size vehicle, but for routing it through these trucks and through the lift gate, they don't seem to cut it, so I needed an extended run of cable with both. I also chose to route the lift gate cable differently. Last time I went along the same path as the OEM wiring, so I went from the roof to lift gate through the factory accordion cover and down the "D"-pillar portion of the lift gate. This is sort of where it got hairy last time because you really have to ensure that that all of runs stay out of the path of the window. I figured routing the lines with the factory wiring would ensure this, but somewhere failed to account for the window which eventually caused a loose connection. This time instead of taking it through the "D" pillar, I simply pulled it down along the window seal, then all the way down to the bottom of the lift gate and back up to the camera. It will be much easier to troubleshoot if I have a problem in the future and it was a lot easier to route it this way. I just passed the lines into the lift gate through one of the rubber plugs using it as a grommet.
Anyway, enough rambling about this stupid thing. Works as I thought I can have full time camera. Toggle it on at any time to have a rear view, even going down the road. Because of the wide angle it looks a little crazy though. Cars look like they're really far away:
Also my HU does PiP, so I can Nav & have rear view simultaeniously:
Camera itself mounted:
Pulling my locker motor tomorrow so that I can bench test it and figure out what's going on with this thing.
Finally finished installing my new back-up camera. I swear I'm the slowest person at installing these things. I take weeks doing a little at a time when I get a spare moment. There's nothing hard about it, I just seem to only be able to find 30 minute intervals to work on them.
My first camera was this one that I installed over a year and a half ago. At the time, I paid $7 for it. Looks like it's doubled in price. It stopped working after a few months right around the time of my first wheeling trip, which coincidentally was probably the first time I rolled down the back window since the install. What I think happened was the window caught a poorly routed wire (my fault) on the way down and broke a connection. My thoughts on that one? It worked fine for the price. Definitely cheap. Also the LED housings filled up with moisture and looked like shit, but I don't think I had any moisture issues with the actual lens itself.
I replaced it with this one. Cost is $16 plus $7 shipping. The differences are this one has a metal (stainless) housing vs. the plastic. It definitely has more heft to it and seems of better build quality. Greater viewing angle; 170 vs. 120 deg. This one is CCD vs. CMOS. They are of similar resolution specs, but this one does appear to have higher quality video display. That's about it.
What I wanted to do differently this time was I wanted to grab my 12v source from a constant hot when the truck was switched on. This way I can have camera at the push of a button at any time. Before I grabbed power from the reverse light, so the camera was only fed power when the truck was in reverse. After looking at a diagram and then going out and probing the rear door ECU with a meter, I found what I was looking for. For those interested I tapped the small black wire going into the main harness of the rear door ECU for my power. Also grabbed my common from the thick white with black stripe wire in that location. This also saves you from having to run power back to the tail light, which is sort of a pain. The RCA video wires that these cameras come with are probably plenty long for an average size vehicle, but for routing it through these trucks and through the lift gate, they don't seem to cut it, so I needed an extended run of cable with both. I also chose to route the lift gate cable differently. Last time I went along the same path as the OEM wiring, so I went from the roof to lift gate through the factory accordion cover and down the "D"-pillar portion of the lift gate. This is sort of where it got hairy last time because you really have to ensure that that all of runs stay out of the path of the window. I figured routing the lines with the factory wiring would ensure this, but somewhere failed to account for the window which eventually caused a loose connection. This time instead of taking it through the "D" pillar, I simply pulled it down along the window seal, then all the way down to the bottom of the lift gate and back up to the camera. It will be much easier to troubleshoot if I have a problem in the future and it was a lot easier to route it this way. I just passed the lines into the lift gate through one of the rubber plugs using it as a grommet.
Anyway, enough rambling about this stupid thing. Works as I thought I can have full time camera. Toggle it on at any time to have a rear view, even going down the road. Because of the wide angle it looks a little crazy though. Cars look like they're really far away:
Also my HU does PiP, so I can Nav & have rear view simultaeniously:
Camera itself mounted:
Pulling my locker motor tomorrow so that I can bench test it and figure out what's going on with this thing.
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superman3043
Senior Member
E-Locker follow-up
FINALLY got this thing wrapped up this weekend! The mod dates back to late June when I decided to do this so it's been in the works for over 4 months, so it's nice to finally be finished.
My retrofit seems to have been a lot more complicated than your typical one, but in retrospect, I'm glad to have done it and finally be finished because now I have a great understanding about how all this shit works.
To recap. I ordered parts to rebuild the used rear diff and modify my axel housing to accept the e-locker diff (from an 08' FJ Cruiser) from ECGS back in early July. This included:
- a master install kit
- solid pinion spacer
- e-locker gasket
- 2 long studs
Did not get to actually work on it until early late August because of the birth of my daughter. Day one ended taking very long trying to figure out how to rebuild a rear diff for the first time. This bled into a second day that I really didn't account for, to get the axle housing modified. Which led to a rush job, which is never a good thing. So at first assembly, only allowed me to fit 3 of the 4 new studs. So at first drive, not only did the diff leak, but since I didn't secure the harness properly before backing the truck out of the lift, it caught the drive shaft and yanked the connector off... doh!
Took a day off the following week, to fix the housing and reseal the diff.
Ordered some Carling rocker switches from OTR and a harness from ORS. Mike, the owner of Offroad Solutions, was great to work with. Their standard lead time on the harnesses is about 3 weeks, but I think mine took about twice that to arrive due to their back log.
When I plugged the harness up and energized the system, it locked the diff once and never did anything after that. Uh oh. Rode around for a couple of days with a spooled rear axle which was a lot of fun... Removed the locker motor and manually unlocked the rear. Started troubleshooting and thought it was a blown fuse, but after replacing it, I still couldn't get the actuator to do anything. So I had to figure out if I smoked the motor or if the harness was wrong. Got a wiring schematic from Mike so that I could understand the circuit better to help me troubleshoot the system. He uses 3 relays and a SPDT switch. Pulled the motor to attempt to perform a bench test this past weekend. Set up a bench circuit with a power supply and relay... Nothing. Tore the motor apart because I this point, my guess was that it over-ran it's limit and smoked it. It didn't smell good in there, but the motor looked perfect. When you disassemble the actual motor portion of the actuator (that drives the worm gear) you'll discover there are some little spring loaded magnets that will go flying. This is very fun to try to re-assemble. So I attempted to put it back together and re-test it.... still nothing. Then I had a thought that the power supply I was using, while we were getting 12 volts, was not pulling enough amperage to run the motor. It's pretty beefy. So before trashing the motor, I decided to set the test rig up using the truck battery. Didn't really have anything to loose at this point. This actually ran the motor once in one direction and then when I tried to reverse it, it ran a little in the opposite direction before quitting....hmmm. So the motor worked! Sort of... This was actually why I didn't think I had a bad motor to begin with because it had actually actuated once on the truck before quitting. I tore it back apart to discover that one of the two aforementioned spring loaded magnets popped out during re-assembly. Fixed it, tested it and the actuator ran in both directions as it should. Success! So the motor was never bad to begin with. I took it apart thinking it was bad because the power supply couldn't run it. Then I put it back together wrong. Now that I knew I had a good motor, I had to plug it back into the harness and figure out what was going on with it.
Plugging it into the harness, it did not behave as it should. Actually it did exactly the same thing it did the first time I plugged it in. Ran once and died. So after troubleshooting it, I figured out that the limits were actually backwards or swapped, meaning the lock limit was the unlock limit and vice versa, So once it got to one position, it stuck. Once I swapped the limit circuits, it allowed the motor to run to both limits in both directions... but the polarity was wrong for my switch position. Meaning when my rocker was in what I wanted to be in the "locked" position the diff was open and vice versa... This was a simple enough fix. I only needed to reverse to polarity at one of my relays and viola, everything works!
Trimmed the panel a little to fit my OTR switch and added a matching one for my light bar. So not much as far as pics. I guess I should have snapped one of my test rigs and maybe do a little video with a tire up in the air with the diff locked and open.
Anyway, here's a shot of the switches:
Switched on. Blue LED's to match the rest of the interior, but the pic came out horrible:
So in this venture, I learned how to rebuild the diff, modify the axle housing to accept the e-locker 3rd, how the electric motor and actuator work, and how the wiring circuit for it works. It was a major PITA, but man what an awesome learning experience. Now that it's over hopefully I'll get the chance to wheel the piss out of it, and move on to breaking and fixing more shit.
FINALLY got this thing wrapped up this weekend! The mod dates back to late June when I decided to do this so it's been in the works for over 4 months, so it's nice to finally be finished.
My retrofit seems to have been a lot more complicated than your typical one, but in retrospect, I'm glad to have done it and finally be finished because now I have a great understanding about how all this shit works.
To recap. I ordered parts to rebuild the used rear diff and modify my axel housing to accept the e-locker diff (from an 08' FJ Cruiser) from ECGS back in early July. This included:
- a master install kit
- solid pinion spacer
- e-locker gasket
- 2 long studs
Did not get to actually work on it until early late August because of the birth of my daughter. Day one ended taking very long trying to figure out how to rebuild a rear diff for the first time. This bled into a second day that I really didn't account for, to get the axle housing modified. Which led to a rush job, which is never a good thing. So at first assembly, only allowed me to fit 3 of the 4 new studs. So at first drive, not only did the diff leak, but since I didn't secure the harness properly before backing the truck out of the lift, it caught the drive shaft and yanked the connector off... doh!
Took a day off the following week, to fix the housing and reseal the diff.
Ordered some Carling rocker switches from OTR and a harness from ORS. Mike, the owner of Offroad Solutions, was great to work with. Their standard lead time on the harnesses is about 3 weeks, but I think mine took about twice that to arrive due to their back log.
When I plugged the harness up and energized the system, it locked the diff once and never did anything after that. Uh oh. Rode around for a couple of days with a spooled rear axle which was a lot of fun... Removed the locker motor and manually unlocked the rear. Started troubleshooting and thought it was a blown fuse, but after replacing it, I still couldn't get the actuator to do anything. So I had to figure out if I smoked the motor or if the harness was wrong. Got a wiring schematic from Mike so that I could understand the circuit better to help me troubleshoot the system. He uses 3 relays and a SPDT switch. Pulled the motor to attempt to perform a bench test this past weekend. Set up a bench circuit with a power supply and relay... Nothing. Tore the motor apart because I this point, my guess was that it over-ran it's limit and smoked it. It didn't smell good in there, but the motor looked perfect. When you disassemble the actual motor portion of the actuator (that drives the worm gear) you'll discover there are some little spring loaded magnets that will go flying. This is very fun to try to re-assemble. So I attempted to put it back together and re-test it.... still nothing. Then I had a thought that the power supply I was using, while we were getting 12 volts, was not pulling enough amperage to run the motor. It's pretty beefy. So before trashing the motor, I decided to set the test rig up using the truck battery. Didn't really have anything to loose at this point. This actually ran the motor once in one direction and then when I tried to reverse it, it ran a little in the opposite direction before quitting....hmmm. So the motor worked! Sort of... This was actually why I didn't think I had a bad motor to begin with because it had actually actuated once on the truck before quitting. I tore it back apart to discover that one of the two aforementioned spring loaded magnets popped out during re-assembly. Fixed it, tested it and the actuator ran in both directions as it should. Success! So the motor was never bad to begin with. I took it apart thinking it was bad because the power supply couldn't run it. Then I put it back together wrong. Now that I knew I had a good motor, I had to plug it back into the harness and figure out what was going on with it.
Plugging it into the harness, it did not behave as it should. Actually it did exactly the same thing it did the first time I plugged it in. Ran once and died. So after troubleshooting it, I figured out that the limits were actually backwards or swapped, meaning the lock limit was the unlock limit and vice versa, So once it got to one position, it stuck. Once I swapped the limit circuits, it allowed the motor to run to both limits in both directions... but the polarity was wrong for my switch position. Meaning when my rocker was in what I wanted to be in the "locked" position the diff was open and vice versa... This was a simple enough fix. I only needed to reverse to polarity at one of my relays and viola, everything works!
Trimmed the panel a little to fit my OTR switch and added a matching one for my light bar. So not much as far as pics. I guess I should have snapped one of my test rigs and maybe do a little video with a tire up in the air with the diff locked and open.
Anyway, here's a shot of the switches:
Switched on. Blue LED's to match the rest of the interior, but the pic came out horrible:
So in this venture, I learned how to rebuild the diff, modify the axle housing to accept the e-locker 3rd, how the electric motor and actuator work, and how the wiring circuit for it works. It was a major PITA, but man what an awesome learning experience. Now that it's over hopefully I'll get the chance to wheel the piss out of it, and move on to breaking and fixing more shit.
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Darklight
New member
Those switches are nice, glad to hear you finally got everything taken care of. You should be able to take these things apart like a pro now,lol/ BTW you still have A-TRAC as well and when the rear locker is engaged the front A-TRAC will/should still work. Glad you guys had a fun trip and made it out and through the trail.
Bobby
Bobby
superman3043
Senior Member
Thanks man. Yeah, I can pretty much tear down a 4Runner blind folded now. If it's anything that you should have learned from when I helped you dip your door handles, it's that I'm not afraid to take apart a truck, lol.
Yeah, I'm aware that the A-TRAC still works in conjunction with the locker. I got a little A-TRAC action going at Richland (open diffs though). I actually saw a few Yota trucks out there, which is weird cause everyone says they see nothing but Jeeps out there.
We need to get up soon. Hope all is well.
Edit: Oh and P.S. Maybe you should change your sig pic to something a little more.... recent. And also, I just figured out that the rubbing you're getting on your firewall is because of those spacers that you're running up front.
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Darklight
New member
I like my stock sig picture. It reminds me of the good ol days, lol.
No bueno with the firewall rubbing with or without my front spacers. I've tried both. Bigger b/l in my cards.
superman3043
Senior Member
That sucks dude. Oh well, jack that sucker up some more then!! I just find it odd that you rub your firewall with what I would consider a narrow 285 and I don't with a nearly 13" wide tire.
Anyway, moar BL is not in my cards I don't think. I'm actually somewhere in between going back down to a 32" M/T and cranking my CO's down or doing a SAS lol. Probably just leave it alone... but where's the fun in that?
gaterose
Senior Member
Do you think you can explain this better or with pictures maybe? I'm not sure why but I can't figure out what you mean.
I've installed two rearview cams now and had both fail, the first was definitely a stretched wire and I think that's the problem again now. I ended up ordering the same camera as you have instead of wasting money on another kenwood cmos. I just don't want it to fail after a few months again; I was certain I followed a good path last time, but I can't think of any other explanation for it failing so quickly.
Also, how does your HU get the signal that it's in reverse? I believe my cmos taps into it and carries video, reverse signal, and camera power in one harness so I'm going to have to change that this time.
I have the DNX-9960, not sure which one you have but it looks the same. Thanks in advance.
superman3043
Senior Member
For you buddy?? I'd be glad to explain. Yeah I guess should have snapped some pictures. If I can't articulate it well enough I'd be glad to take a few pictures. Also, feel free to text or PM me. Basically looking at the back with the lift gate up, the "accordion" section I'm talking about is in the top left. My wire goes up the "D" pillar inside the cab, above the headliner and into the accordion. Then, I poked a hole in it and fed the wire out and routed it along the inside window seal. When looking up, it'll still be left (driver) side of the window. From here the inner door panel will conceal it. With the panel removed, I routed it to a round rubber plug around the middle of the panel. Poked a hole in that and pass it through and basically just make sure you have enough wire to straddle the window in the down position (if that makes sense). You can wire tie it to something at the lowest point to ensure it doesn't walk. I just pooled all of my excess slack along the bottom of the lift door.
As far as the Reverse signal, there is a trigger wire that comes out of the back of the HU. I believe mine is purple. I just tapped that to the reverse light wire (yellow with red IIRC) in the driver side door sill. I thought that was how most worked.
My HU is a Kenwood DNX9140. Hope that helps. Let me know if you want pics or you can text, call, PM, or email and I can talk you through it. Basically you will only see wire along the upper window frame from the accordion to the window seal (very short run) if done properly. Hope that helps.
superman3043
Senior Member
Thanks man. Picking up from your intro thread. Get the V8, you won't regret it. I LOVE mine. Oh and if aftermarket support is important to you, it's not really THAT great on 4Runners. Especially 4th gens. Not on a Jeep level anyway, but definitely better than the Rodeo. I wouldn't want to tow with a Wrangler though. The companies that do support Toyota products are great though.
Yeah, just let me know when you're ready to wheel. You're pretty close to Gulches.
The trail we just did is called Richland Road. There's a thread on it. A few members just hit it this past Saturday, but I couldn't make it out. It's a pretty moderate ride. Can be done stock but will probably stretch your capability.
I won't buy a 4Runner if it's not the V8, I know that's for sure.
Just to give you an idea, there are 2 aftermarket lift kit sources for the Isuzu's. Independent4x and Calmini. Recently Calmini has almost ended production on their kits.
ARB is the only retailer of front bumpers. Sliders and rear bumpers have to be custom fabbed.
To correct allignment after lifts we install the Upper Ball Joints on the bottom side of the UCA as Calmini doesn't sell their UCA's separately anymore.
But, in top of all this, parts are becoming more rare as Isuzu is no longer sold in the states.
We have a saying over on the Isuzu Forums ,"Jeep may have invented 4x4, but Isuzu does it better." Not sure how well it's founded in fact, but we get a good laugh out of it.
Absolutely, I wanted to ride up to Gulches with the Rodeo, I'd stick to the Easy trails - obviously, I was interested in going as an observer. See what it's all about, but the park owner doesn't let 2wd on the property at all. So, that kinda killed that plan.
Awesome, I'll be sure to check that thread out.
I think I'm going to keep an eye on the forums for guys selling their Runners on here. Might be able to grab one up with some mods already for a good price that's been well taken care of.
superman3043
Senior Member
Yeah, I can't imagine the aftermarket support being great for the Rodeo. Hell 4th gen runners are everywhere and I still feel the aftermarket support is lacking. I always liked the Rodeo's. Back in the late 90's I almost bought a Honda Passport (same truck). I went to the car lot to look at two identical a 2WD and a 4WD, but something just didn't quite check out, so I left the lot with a new model (at that time) Accord. It was a good car to me. But yeah, you'd be like a kid in a candy store in Toyota world. Funny thing is, there is plenty of aftermarket stuff for Taco, FJC and Tundra. The Runners just tend to get a little less love and 4th gens even less so. 3rds and 5ths seem to be pretty well supported for the off-road crew. We just obviously own the most soccer momish generation, so we have to work a little harder to shake that stigma.
You could have a great time at Gulches on a ride along. There's usually plenty of stuff to watch if you go on the right day you can catch the big boys out there in buggies. You could probably make your way around all the easy trails stock if it's dry out there. It's not too bad and the trails are clearly marked.
Here's one in the classifieds:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...-4runner-sport-4x4-v8-$11-500-atlanta-ga.html
You missed a honey of a truck a few months back. It was posted here in the classifieds and on my local Craigslist. It was white 04'. Can't remember if it was a V8 though but I'm pretty sure it was. Had an OME lift, shrockworks front bumper, sliders, offroad lights and I think it had Cooper STT's. He was asking around $12.5K. I really contemplated picking it up just to have it. If I were in the market I definitely would have jumped on it. Just be patient though. You can check on Toyota120 as well. Good luck.
They're solid little trucks, super reliable.
I'm already like a little kid just browsing the few sites I've been on so far. Wishing I had more money. Ahhaha.
Aww, why you gotta tease me like that. The ATL Rig is sold.
That local truck sounds like a steal. I wasn't patient when I bought my Rodeo and I regret it, not going to rush the next one.
HHIRunner
New member
My cousin just texted me to ask of I knew anyone wanting to buy his, it's a 2006 Galactic Grey 4wd with a Daystar spacer lift a 32" BFG takeoff from my uncles Rubicon. I think it's the V6 though. Last time I saw it, it was really clean with no problems, but I can let you know on Saturday when I see him. He's in Statesboro, GA and wants 15,500 for it
