Suspension recommendations please

[RyanEJ25]

You're local to me. Where did you purchase your kit from?

From Chas at MRT Motorsport. Great deal and great guy. I can't speak to his service enough. If your local we can meet up and see how you like the feel of it.

 

[wfo9]

This is something I've been thinking about myself... I know in the street performance side of the auto industry harder/firmer, spine shattering suspension is ideal for some reason, but in an off-road oriented vehicle you'd expect the ride to eat up the bumps and potholes. It seems most the suspensions and lift/leveling kits out there firm up or stiffen the ride. I too am looking for something to make the ride more compliant. With KDSS, body roll is managed quite nicely. I'm not looking for a lift, at most a leveling effect, but #1 priority is to soften the ride significantly.

Let me try to clear one thing up... ICONs... are not stiff or jarring at all. They are compliant. They are digressive valving vs progressive. The best way to describe them is simply different. It gives it a little platform, but nothing that feels stiff. You have to feel it personally and don't take a single recommendation from some forum joker (like me). Go find someone with them and compare with others. There is a very good reason they are popular.

One is not "better" than the other... but progressive is very much more optimized for high speed off-road. Digressive is much more optimized for a mixed use case. They can all work really well... Now the combination of the springs swaybar.. all need to be evaluated together. The only way I can imagine someone calling ICONs stiff and chattery... would be if they were running heavy springs and KDSS . That might not be a good combination. Swaybar stiffness also plays a huge role in suspension feel. If you are building a desert runner... go KING all day, but I seriously doubt many would do that. It requires a massive amount of work beyond the shocks and springs...

BTW, its impossible to have a suspension that performs 100% ideally both unloaded and loaded heavy. You have to set it up for one or the other or somewhere in the middle.

I had OME for a while. It was rough when not loaded up... but it was perfect when the truck was loaded down with full gear and 3 passengers. My current setup does much better with a light load (but that is 80% of my use so I'm in the sweet spot much more often)

 

[DesertFish]

Let me try to clear one thing up... ICONs... are not stiff or jarring at all. They are compliant. They are digressive valving vs progressive. The best way to describe them is simply different. It gives it a little platform, but nothing that feels stiff. You have to feel it personally and don't take a single recommendation from some forum joker (like me). Go find someone with them and compare with others. There is a very good reason they are popular.

One is not "better" than the other... but progressive is very much more optimized for high speed off-road. Digressive is much more optimized for a mixed use case. They can all work really well... Now the combination of the springs swaybar.. all need to be evaluated together. The only way I can imagine someone calling ICONs stiff and chattery... would be if they were running heavy springs and KDSS . That might not be a good combination. Swaybar stiffness also plays a huge role in suspension feel. If you are building a desert runner... go KING all day, but I seriously doubt many would do that. It requires a massive amount of work beyond the shocks and springs...

BTW, its impossible to have a suspension that performs 100% ideally both unloaded and loaded heavy. You have to set it up for one or the other or somewhere in the middle.

I had OME for a while. It was rough when not loaded up... but it was perfect when the truck was loaded down with full gear and 3 passengers. My current setup does much better with a light load (but that is 80% of my use so I'm in the sweet spot much more often)

Thanks for the info, I'll have to look into ICON a bit more.

 

[xnodesirex]

The only way I can imagine someone calling ICONs stiff and chattery... would be if they were running heavy springs and KDSS . That might not be a good combination. Swaybar stiffness also plays a huge role in suspension feel.

This is the first time I'm hearing someone mention KDSS and swaybar stiffness in this context. What role does KDSS play in feeling the stiffness of the shock?

 

[1engineer]

This is the first time I'm hearing someone mention KDSS and swaybar stiffness in this context. What role does KDSS play in feeling the stiffness of the shock?

Read post #13 here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/111124-kdss-insane.html

 

[wfo9]

This is the first time I'm hearing someone mention KDSS and swaybar stiffness in this context. What role does KDSS play in feeling the stiffness of the shock?

Its very simple.
There are 3 basic components to suspension tuning. Springs, dampening (compression + rebound), and swaybars. Swaybars are at play because they are themselves a torsion spring.

Going perfectly straight and hitting a pefectly perpedecular bump or dip (picture a speed bump for argument sake). The sway bar won't have much impact on the feel of the suspension. But now hit that same speed bump at an angle or in a turn and the sway bar has major impact on the effective spring rates and the feel of the suspension. So, the swaybar mainly comes into play on-road in corners.. since the surface is pretty even. But offroad, its at play all the time since things are very uneven.

Generally speaking. purpose built offroad rigs use very light swaybars for chassis control. But KDSS is a very stiff setup at speed to help reduce body roll. This is why KDSS will sometimes feel a bit chattery at speed off road. Once you slow down below 12mph. The system runs open and that totally changes the feel (it becomes an extremely loose swaybar).

I'm not saying anything negative about KDSS, because each time I mention it people get all upset... It's a useful system...

My only point was that the exact same suspension on KDSS vs non KDSS will feel different (even going straight on uneven terrain at speed). You would most likely want a bit lighter springs and dampening on KDSS. Progressive dampening might also be better with KDSS. There is no perfect answer or rule... you just have to experiment and see what works best for your use case.

I can tell you for sure that disconnecting the swaybar offroad completely changes the feel of the suspension. The front suspension will go fully independent and it really smooths things out and increases grip. It is a night and day difference.

 

[xnodesirex]

Its very simple.
There are 3 basic components to suspension tuning. Springs, dampening (compression + rebound), and swaybars. Swaybars are at play because they are themselves a torsion spring.

Going perfectly straight and hitting a pefectly perpedecular bump or dip (picture a speed bump for argument sake). The sway bar won't have much impact on the feel of the suspension. But now hit that same speed bump at an angle or in a turn and the sway bar has major impact on the effective spring rates and the feel of the suspension. So, the swaybar mainly comes into play on-road in corners.. since the surface is pretty even. But offroad, its at play all the time since things are very uneven.

Generally speaking. purpose built offroad rigs use very light swaybars for chassis control. But KDSS is a very stiff setup at speed to help reduce body roll. This is why KDSS will sometimes feel a bit chattery at speed off road. Once you slow down below 12mph. The system runs open and that totally changes the feel (it becomes an extremely loose swaybar).

I'm not saying anything negative about KDSS, because each time I mention it people get all upset... It's a useful system...

My only point was that the exact same suspension on KDSS vs non KDSS will feel different (even going straight on uneven terrain at speed). You would most likely want a bit lighter springs and dampening on KDSS. Progressive dampening might also be better with KDSS. There is no perfect answer or rule... you just have to experiment and see what works best for your use case.

I can tell you for sure that disconnecting the swaybar offroad completely changes the feel of the suspension. The front suspension will go fully independent and it really smooths things out and increases grip. It is a night and day difference.

Awesome post. Thank you!