Sway Bar Rubbing Coilovers

[BlackWorksInc]

So I think I've narrowed down the squeaking noise I've been having lately. At first I thought it could be the heims in the coilovers (still possible). But today I noticed that the sway bar is rubbing the edge of the coil. I've got a relocation kit installed, but it doesn't seem to be enough.

Anyone else run into this and/or have ideas?

 

[Inv4drZm]

Is the sway bar centered on your vehicle? Apparently not because its only rubbing on one side. My brother's FJ had this issue when he removed and reinstalled his, although it was more of a clank. It embarrassingly only made the clanking noise when we got to the off-road park.

 

[having fun]

That's possible as I noticed when I used to install and remove mine for outings, when lightly bolted on I could move them side by side and they would stay stationary where moved to.

Since you obviously like to run your SB, you might have to make a spacer plate to go under the relocate block.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

It's pretty damn centered, it's off by a mm or two towards the passenger's side (barely not touching on that side); but there's not much room there to begin with.

I've thought about a spacer, or even longer links; but I am not entirely sure if that will help. An alternative idea is to somehow spread the ends of the sway bar another 3~5 degrees as that would give me plenty of clearance; but I have no idea how I'd go about that...

I recall the Tacoma sway bars being a bit different and wider, but I don't have any take-offs laying around at work as far as I know...



I was aware of this when the vehicle flexed a bit before I put the 35's on, but I hadn't thought about it for a long time. Now that I am running something like 4.5~5° Caster, it's probably taken up any remaining clearance I might have had. I'm not to keen on running without a sway bar, while the 700lbs springs on the OLW 2.5" suspension is well balanced for the vehicle set-up; the body roll was too annoying and at times unnerving with how aggressive I can drive sometimes.

 

[having fun]

It's pretty damn centered, it's off by a mm or two towards the Driver's side; but there's not much room there to begin with.

I've thought about a spacer, or even longer links; but I am not entirely sure if that will help. An alternative idea is to somehow spread the ends of the sway bar another 3~5 degrees as that would give me plenty of clearance; but I have no idea how I'd go about that...

I recall the Tacoma sway bars being a bit different and wider, but I don't have any take-offs laying around at work as far as I know...

View attachment 198187

They look like they would be beating them by that shot. Do you leave the bar on when you wheel?

I have a mod day coming up on the 9th at my house with a bunch of Taco guys, I could make comparison with mine that's hanging in the garage for you.

Take some photos also if need be.

 

[Powder_Hound]

It's pretty damn centered, it's off by a mm or two towards the passenger's side (barely not touching on that side); but there's not much room there to begin with.

I've thought about a spacer, or even longer links; but I am not entirely sure if that will help. An alternative idea is to somehow spread the ends of the sway bar another 3~5 degrees as that would give me plenty of clearance; but I have no idea how I'd go about that...

I recall the Tacoma sway bars being a bit different and wider, but I don't have any take-offs laying around at work as far as I know...

View attachment 198187View attachment 198194

I was aware of this when the vehicle flexed a bit before I put the 35's on, but I hadn't thought about it for a long time. Now that I am running something like 4.5~5° Caster, it's probably taken up any remaining clearance I might have had. I'm not to keen on running without a sway bar, while the 700lbs springs on the OLW 2.5" suspension is well balanced for the vehicle set-up; the body roll was too annoying and at times unnerving with how aggressive I can drive sometimes.

Wondering if you were to put castor at 2.5 (low end of spec) to confirm if castor is creating an issue? It may not be perfect, but it would confirm suspicions about castor being your culprit? Just a thought...

 

[BlackWorksInc]

They look like they would be beating them by that shot. Do you leave the bar on when you wheel?

I have a mod day coming up on the 9th at my house with a bunch of Taco guys, I could make comparison with mine that's hanging in the garage for you.

Take some photos also if need be.

That would be awesome... if it wouldn't be too much trouble to do a side by side of the 2nd Gen Tacoma and 4th Gen 4Runner bars.

The main issue as you can see in the pictures is that the very ends are not belled out enough. I've been trying to think of how I'd secure the bar and bend that leg out as that would solve the issue at this point, but that's something like 1.5" diameter 1/4" 4130 Chromoly steel...

Wondering if you were to put castor at 2.5 (low end of spec) to confirm if castor is creating an issue? It may not be perfect, but it would confirm suspicions about castor being your culprit? Just a thought...

I'm thinking the issue isn't specifically the Caster as the reason for the relocation brackets is due to how tightly the sway bar hugs the suspension in stock form (and these being larger than factory coilovers), but I do think that the increase positive Caster is bringing the springs closer to the swaybar (the Radflos come with special "directional" heim joint spacers to push the coilover end towards the rear of the mounting point, went through this with my buddy's FJ install and his sway bar had a bit more clearance than mine does now.) Also I wouldn't mind dropping the Caster to test that out, but the alignment tabs on my frame are very worn; I'm a bit afraid to touch the alignment right now because I have a feeling the tabs will just break beyond repair (I plan on upgrading to Total Chaos ones when I do the LCA bushings this year.)

 

[LTDSC]

this is interesting. It definitely looks like it could scrub the lower part of that spring. I dont personally run a sway so i cant check mine. I too am running 4-5* caster and noticed the loss of turning space for these 35s.

Easiest way is to unhook it and zip tie it up and drive around and drive like you would when you'd hear it. But you probably know this.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

this is interesting. It definitely looks like it could scrub the lower part of that spring. I dont personally run a sway so i cant check mine. I too am running 4-5* caster and noticed the loss of turning space for these 35s.

Easiest way is to unhook it and zip tie it up and drive around and drive like you would when you'd hear it. But you probably know this.

Planning on doing this tomorrow at work, I'll zap the links off and zip-tie it to the bumper and see if it goes away.

It's been catching the bottom edge of the spring for a while now on certain flex angles, it's never been a big bother to me as it happens rarely. But right now it seems to be rubbing that bar a lot to the point that driving around is "SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK!"

 

[having fun]

That would be awesome... if it wouldn't be too much trouble to do a side by side of the 2nd Gen Tacoma and 4th Gen 4Runner bars.

The main issue as you can see in the pictures is that the very ends are not belled out enough. I've been trying to think of how I'd secure the bar and bend that leg out as that would solve the issue at this point, but that's something like 1.5" diameter 1/4" 4130 Chromoly steel...

No problem, will do!

Bending them not so the problem, but, to make precise bends when you have multiple directions already in the bar already, let alone when adding more bend, what the change to the throw distance to the links would become is where I would be concerned.

Will look for you and may send a message to you that day also if any questions arise.

 

[LTDSC]

Planning on doing this tomorrow at work, I'll zap the links off and zip-tie it to the bumper and see if it goes away.

It's been catching the bottom edge of the spring for a while now on certain flex angles, it's never been a big bother to me as it happens rarely. But right now it seems to be rubbing that bar a lot to the point that driving around is "SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK!"

my rear lower links are squeaking like that now with every bump. I know that pain.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Well if I pulled the ends out a few degrees the sway bar links would sit closer to 90 degrees than the somewhat canted in angle they are now; that shouldn't cause any issues on the suspension as that all sits well within the scrub angle of tires. The thing that becomes an issue is as you mentioned, how to secure the bar in a way that I can control the part I want to bend.

 

[having fun]

Put the bar in a vise prior to the spot to bend, put heat on it and take a boxed end wrench and slide to the area that you want to bend comes to mind.

When I was younger, we always didn't have all the tools like these days and made do with what we had. Some of the things we done back then amazed us.

The end links having dual pivits should help with what your describing also.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Put the bar in a vise prior to the spot to bend, put heat on it and take a boxed end wrench and slide to the area that you want to bend comes to mind.

When I was younger, we always didn't have all the tools like these days and made do with what we had. Some of the things we done back then amazed us.

The end links having dual pivits should help with what your describing also.

The only issue I have with warming the bar up to bend it is that I don't want to anneal it too much. Theoretically it's 4130 Chromoly (based on research I did when doing my prototype disconnecting sway bar), which is a hardened steel; if I heat it up enough to make it more pliable to bend, I might be annealing it too much and ruining the bar unless I have it re-treated. The bar is also hollow, so I have to make sure I don't collapse it; though I doubt I would since it's something like 1/4" ~1/2" thick walled tubing.

 

[having fun]

I understand your concerns. Sounds like if the Taco bar doesn't work for you, there's that other saying.... Pick the least of the evils, bend it, remove it, or live with it. Take you pick.

And if I was you and prefer it keep it. Bend it. That's if the Taco bar isn't wider, spacer the block, or seeing if changing your caster works. Not to many choices other than having a custom one made$$$$.

EDIT... So you cut open perfectly good bar just to see.... LOL.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=88231]having fun[/MENTION]

Not quite, it was for my prototype disconnecting sway bar set-up...

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/138892-4th-gen-disconnecting-sway-bar-set-up.html

 

[having fun]

Yeah, I think I seen that shot before. Was keeping up on the links you where trying to design due to I prefer to leave the bar on for the same purposes.
The only other thing I could think of is remove the bar and bump up the coil poundage to compensate for it. But I see your on a pretty stiff set already. About 100lbs more than mine.

 

[dkyleb]

but the alignment tabs on my frame are very worn; I'm a bit afraid to touch the alignment right now because I have a feeling the tabs will just break beyond repair (I plan on upgrading to Total Chaos ones when I do the LCA bushings this year.)

Sorry to derail your thread; just have a question about these tabs. Can I bend them to "hug" the cams? Mine are bent open for some reason. And for some reason my fricken cam bolts keep coming loose. But that's for another thread. Just hoping I can bend them in to keep my alignment in check.

 

[EdmundGTP]

BlackWorks, I ran into this exact same problem a couple weekends ago when I installed my Fox 2.5 coilovers up front. Driver's side lower spring perch was touching the sway bar end. Passenger side had almost 1/4" clearance, and there was room between the bar's retainer collars for it to shift further to the passenger side.

I finished up the install and opted to not put the sway bar back. Can't say I loved driving around without it.

So a buddy and me put the bar into a big vise, then heated up the flat area just after where the bar starts to bend back towards the rear of the vehicle, and bent it outward by about 5/8" at the end link mounting point. Basically used a tape measure to get the end-to-end length between the end-link mounting holes and once it opened up 3/4 or so we let it cool. It will actually bend a little bit back to its original shape as it cools. Repainted it, reinstalled it and it fits perfect now.

I've heard a million conflicting opinions about heating and bending both swaybars, and suspension coils. I figure if it breaks (which to me seems HIGHLY unlikely), so what? It's not a critical item, as you can drive the truck safely without it, and it shouldn't be difficult to get a replacement.

Another thing that will help with clearance is if you have the energy suspension front sway bar bushings. The mounts are slotted and if you move them as far forward as possible before torqueing them down that will buy a bit more clearance at the bottom of the coilover.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So I chucked the bar up in a vise and used a giant pry bar to try and bend it out, I think I managed to get a total of 1/16" according to my tape measure. That should be enough for what I need, I hope. I also noticed one of the collars was loose so I tried to punch it tighter (doubt it will hold, but worth a shot). I then pushed the relocation brackets and sway bar brackets as far forward as I could after I centered the bar, seems to have given me a good amount of clearance for now; but time will tell.
[MENTION=88231]having fun[/MENTION]

Still would like the measurements on the Tacoma bar, it seems my 4th gen 4WD bar is just a hair over 46" from the inside edge of the sway bar link bracket to the other.
[MENTION=124121]dkyleb[/MENTION]

You can bend them, but it only works for so long... I'm running into the issue where mine have been bent back a few too many times and the cams are a bit worn. I have a feeling if I try to align the Caster/Camber again the tabs will bend too much or break on me at this point.

Another thing to keep in mind is to have those alignment cams should be torqued to about 100ft.lbs for the 4th gens; I thought I was torquing them enough before and that was what allowed them to slip when off-roading.