Tailgate Window - Console Switch not working, Rear Key works fine?

[Randyman...]

I'm having an issue with my Rear Hatch (Tailgate) Window - the center console switch is not working. The rear-hatch key DOES work to roll the back hatch window up and down.

I just swapped my rear hatch trim piece (with the "4RUNNER" logo on it), and had to disconnect the harness that feeds it (has the rear key switch and license plate lights on it). Additionally, I had Dynamat all over the rear hatch's inner skin, and had to cut through it to access the innards of the rear-hatch (to remove the trim piece).

I'm 95% sure I didn't cut any wires by accident - so is there something else I might have knocked loose while I was in there?


I'm a bit stupid on the FSM diagrams, but I see in the FSM Diagram section that the Rear Window rear-hatch key switch (1st pic below) seems to interface to the "Multiplex Network Door ECU", as does the center console switch (2nd pic below) (I believe this ECU is in the main cabin somewhere - NOT in the rear hatch). (RED Borders and Yellow Notes are my additions).

Then the "Multiplex Network Door ECU" sends commands from either input (switch or key) to the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" located in the rear hatch (also in the 2nd pic).

Seeing that the rear key works up/down, it would not seem that I cut any wires feeding the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" as that would probably mean neither the key or console switch would work - is that correct?

I do see one wire that directly hops over from Center Console Switch to the "Back Door Window Regulator Sub Assembly" (ILL+ to LED), but it appears to be an LED trigger?

Any clues on where else I should be looking? It is obviously something I did to the rear hatch when I was swapping the trim piece - but after double checking everything 3 times I just can't find the wiring issue.

Thanks all!

 

[jfdallas]

Is your window lock button on? I know that sounds "duh" but this happened to me on my 07 4Runner...finally figured out what it was. Hopefully it's that easy of a fix. :thumb:

 

[scanny]

wanted to ask the same thing. Once I've disabled passenger windows control for passengers and found out that I can't control back window with the button as a result.
If it's not the case, might some electrical connection to lock windows switch is not connected right.

 

[Randyman...]

Thank you both for the replies!

I did go straight to the "Window Lock" switch - it is not the issue.

This problem only began AFTER I was in the tailgate replacing the trim piece I mentioned above. So it's got to be something in there as far as I can tell...

Can anyone tell if my half-assed assumptions are correct about the way the rear key switch and center console switch both interface to the "Multiplex Network Door ECU" - and then the "Multiplex Network DOOR ECU" sends the Up/Down commands to the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub-Assembly"?

It seems both the tailgate key switch commands and center console switch commands come into the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub-Assembly" via a common set of wires (fed from the "Multiplex Network Door ECU"). Or am I reading the diagrams incorrectly?.

If that's the case, then I'm not sure which wire in the tailgate would cause a fault ONLY with the center console switch (since the rear key up/down works fine)?

I really think I either nudged something loose or maybe nicked/cut a wire when I was in the tailgate replacing the trim piece - but after 3 hard looks, I can't discover the problem. Knowing which tailgate wires might cause an issue for ONLY the center console switch would help immensely...

Thanks T4R studs!

 

[scanny]

then you have to wait until some knowledgeable guys notice this thread, I could only offer some common sense solution like disconnecting wires one by one and see if the rear key switch still works making sure windows locks oi off. Eventually if disconnected wire does nothing it might be the one for the console button. Or disconnect wires from harness and check them all for shorts or breaks with multimeter... But I have no idea how it works, sorry : )

 

[TOY2G]

Our trucks have a safety feature that keeps the rear window from smashing someone in it. Once it is tripped, a reset procedure is required to reset it. I do not know that procedure on my 5th gen but on my 4th gen it requires rolling windows up and down and then half up and back down.

something like this...
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/probl...window-roll-down-feature-stopped-working.html

 

[Randyman...]

No problem, Scanny. Thanks for your posts regardless.

Our trucks have a safety feature that keeps the rear window from smashing someone in it. Once it is tripped, a reset procedure is required to reset it. I do not know that procedure on my 5th gen but on my 4th gen it requires rolling windows up and down and then half up and back down.

something like this...
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/probl...window-roll-down-feature-stopped-working.html

Might be on to something TOY2G - but my console switch won't work at all (the thread seems to indicate the switch still worked, but the "Auto Up/Auto Down" feature did not work). Maybe a full battery disconnect/ECU reset would fix me up?

Another point of interest: All of the other stuff in the Tailgate still works fine: Rear Hatch Key Lock/Unlock and Key Window Up/Down; License Plate Lights; Cargo Lights (still come on when I open the tailgate and turn off when I close the Tailgate). So the ECU surely knows when the Tailgate is open or closed based off the behavior of the cargo lights, and my "Door Ajar" dash light also goes off as expected.

I wish I could make heads or tails out of the FSM diagrams, but I just can't seem to connect all of the dots. I guess Saturday will be another "poke around and see what I can find" throw-away day. Good thing I canceled my Saturday plans already

Thanks for the valuable input. I welcome any further expertise with open arms :cheers:

PS - This all happened when I swapped from an SR5 Chrome rear-trim piece (called a "Garnish") w/ metallic silver "4RUNNER" logo to the Black rear-trim piece with the Chrome "4RUNNER" logo (off a Trail Edition). The black garnish w/Chrome lettering looks SO much better on my black SR5 IMO. Well worth the window hassle IMO (yes, looks that much better)

Rock on :rockon:

 

[eddiebx]

Super stupid question, but you are trying to operate the console switch with the vehicle running, right? I don't think that switch works unless the vehicle is on, unlike the tailgate key switch (which works while it's off).

 

[TOY2G]

does your wiper work?

Does your Power Outlet in the front still work. Perhaps you killed power to the switch. If i remember correctly, there is only one 12v circuit in the center console so there is a chance you popped a fuse that send power to the switch.. it will likely be called an accessory or courtesy fuse.

keep in mind the window motor gets its own power, the switch completes the ground half of the circuit, so it may be that you left off a ground someplace also...?

 

[Randyman...]

Geese - you guys are replying like crazy! Thanks so much :cheers:

eddiebx: Yes - Tried with Truck on but not running, tried with truck running, tried in Park/Drive/Neutral for shits and grins - nothing. Funny you mention this as this did "get me" once - forgot the ignition had to be "on" for the windows to work :bash:

TOY2G: Yep - Wiper and washer work just fine. Interesting about the center console power - I will look into that as I never use the console's power port (wouldn't know if it wasn't working).

The only place I was messing with when this happened was the rear tailgate area - and I don't believe I saw any ground wires involved with the 10mm garnish trim nuts (furthermore, I don't believe the tailgate itself is a valid "ground" due to being mounted on hinges - I believe any grounds required back there would be run to the main cabin area via a hardwire through the loom - but don't quote me on that!).


Keep 'em coming! I'll have all day Saturday to play with all of these fantastic suggestions :happy:

You guys are troubleshooters extraordinaire!!!

 

[1engineer]

I have a question.... Do you have a big "R" on your chest [MENTION=89075]Randyman...[/MENTION] ? Always been curious. Anyway, back on topic!

 

[Randyman...]

lolz - 1E! It's my teenage nick-name one of my buddies gave me - and also my gmail address (got into gmail EARLY!). It stuck, so I use it for my forum screen names as well (have to add the "..." ellipses for most forums as "Randyman" is generally taken) - so that's my explanation. :wave:

Any engineering input into this conundrum? I really hope TOY2G is onto something with the center console power feed! It does make sense.

1E: Do my other assumptions on the way the rear key and console switch interface to the tailgate's "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub-Assembly" seem correct? (See posts #1 and #4 for explanation and pics from the FSM). Can you see any wires in the tailgate that would cause the console switch not to work but would still allow the rear key switch to work?

Rock on :thanks:

 

[1engineer]

lolz - 1E! It's my teenage nick-name one of my buddies gave me - and also my gmail address (got into gmail EARLY!). It stuck, so I use it for my forum screen names as well (have to add the "..." ellipses for most forums as "Randyman" is generally taken) - so that's my explanation. :wave:

Any engineering input into this conundrum? I really hope TOY2G is onto something with the center console power feed! It does make sense.

1E: Do my other assumptions on the way the rear key and console switch interface to the tailgate's "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub-Assembly" seem correct? (See posts #1 and #4 for explanation and pics from the FSM). Can you see any wires in the tailgate that would cause the console switch not to work but would still allow the rear key switch to work?

Rock on :thanks:

Your logic is solid but generally I stay away from electrical threads. Might have something to do with the fact I have been shocked by every voltage from watch batteries to 7200V. 460 hurts the worst BTW...

If it were me I would try tracing it out a 4th time 'cause you broke or cut something. Use a continuity tester at the switch, then at the initial point of entry into the gate, then further down etc. You will eventually find the problem. RANDYMANNNNN AWAY!!!!!! (so cool)

 

[Antman]

Well- I have been doing some research for a little bit here, even got out my EWD notebook LOL. I don't know- but if ALL I messed with was inside the hatch and then the switch didn't work, well then I would go back and look inside the hatch. Something is unplugged or half-plugged (that a word?) back there, or you cut a wire.

Check all the fuses too, even the ones under the hood. These electrical engineers went nuts when they had their 5th Gen design party...

God luck sir- I'll keep thinking on it FWIW...

 

[Randyman...]

Understood 1E! I'm always a bit leery with my DIY Tube Pro-Audio gear with +450VAC in them! The more standard +/-24VDC DIY stuff I don't mind so much - I'll poke around all day long in that stuff

Antman - Thanks for dropping in. There was only 1 connector I unhooked (that connects to the rear garnish for the switch and license plate lights) - it is solidly mated. I've checked for cut wires 3 times - and I was very careful when cutting through the Dynamat (had pics of the tailgate's guts from before dynamat, so I knew the safe areas to cut through).

I will check the console fuse as that is easy, and then yank the tailgate trim-panel off a 4th time and poke around in the tailgate some more this weekend. Really hoping it's just the console fuse...

T4R.ORG's members are the best of the best - hands down. Love this place

 

[eddiebx]

I am pretty sure the multiplex door ECU is in the tailgate along with the regulator, so it sure is starting to sound like you might've left something disconnected while you were in the tailgate area.

Question, does the little indicator light on the console switch come on when you have your parking lights on?

I would do like Greg and Jeff said, and double check all the connectors a 4th time, maybe even separate each connector and re-plug them together just to make sure the connectors are fully engaged.

If still nothing, at this point I would probably start manually probing each wire with a DMM to check for continuity between the console switch and the multiplex ECU. There's got to be something disconnected along the path some where!

Also check to make sure the console switch is getting a solid ground (it seems like pin 1 on the console switch plug is ground...)

 

[Randyman...]

Thanks for the continued replies guys.

The thing about the Multiplex Network Door ECU is that is seems to connect to ALL of the window switches in the FSM Diagrams ("Power Windows" diagram PDF) - so I figured it's located in the cabin somewhere for the remaining 4 windows and 4 switch banks (5 switches including the tailgate window's console switch).

I only see the one "box" in the tailgate (mounted to the vertical metal plate as a sub-assembly) - and I assume that is the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" which gets its up/down triggers from the Multiplex Door ECU (meaning it should work for both the Key and Console Switch, or not work for either from what I gather).

I didn't check if the center console switch lights up - I will observe this on my way home tonight.

I really have a feeling I popped the center console fuse somehow as I'm 99% sure the single Tailgate connector I unhooked is solid (and the only things on that connector are the Key Switch and License Plate lights - 4 conductors total!). I have checked all fuses I could find related to the rear tailgate window (under the the hood and in the passenger compartment) - but the Console Fuse was not one I thought to look for...

Thanks for the most excellent suggestions and troubleshooting tricks all! Hope to have good news when I get home and check the stupid console fuse :lookout:

 

[Antman]

That switch doesn't light up- at least mine doesn't. I know the diagram shows an LED and I had the switch apart completely before and it looked like an LED in there. Hmmmm. May have to look into that.

 

[Randyman...]

That switch doesn't light up- at least mine doesn't. I know the diagram shows an LED and I had the switch apart completely before and it looked like an LED in there. Hmmmm. May have to look into that.

Seeing that that particular LED is fed from the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" and not from a regular Illumination trigger from the ECU or regular lighting circuit - could it only be for error indication (when the "Auto" circuit has issues?)

Just a guess as I don't recall mine illuminating under normal operation, either...

 

[eddiebx]

That switch doesn't light up- at least mine doesn't. I know the diagram shows an LED and I had the switch apart completely before and it looked like an LED in there. Hmmmm. May have to look into that.

You are absolutely correct Jeff, I just went out and checked and there's no little LED on my console switch either. Sorry about the confusion Randy