Taking Legal Action...Lemon Law!
- Thread starter Fadiddy
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alaskaman
Senior Member
Is it just me? I just went cross country in sheer pleasure with this new 4Runner. It got us through severe weather raining so hard fish were drowning, it provided safety, and it did that getting 22 mpg with power to spare. We looked very sharp at the country club in Bryn Mawr, we opened up the sunroof and were happy as clams in the shell. It is smooth as silk on a great road and gets me out of tight squeezes with swiss watch effortless acceleration. I mean really.
Nothing personal but if the clunk and the smell are really that bad (to you) and I am arguing that they might be, shop for a new vehicle lesson learned. Toyota is not going to fix these issues. They have millions of happy customers. That does not mean your qualms about plunking down 40Large and being dissatisfied are not REAL and I can identify, but I guess I have just so many positives that I can't be to put off by a smell a clunk and a harmonic whatever.
By the way, this week I am using Shell and I have had zero sulfur smell. Take a long drive from here to the border of Wyoming on 80. I guarantee you will love the vehicle more. It likes to roll. :bigok:
Nothing personal but if the clunk and the smell are really that bad (to you) and I am arguing that they might be, shop for a new vehicle lesson learned. Toyota is not going to fix these issues. They have millions of happy customers. That does not mean your qualms about plunking down 40Large and being dissatisfied are not REAL and I can identify, but I guess I have just so many positives that I can't be to put off by a smell a clunk and a harmonic whatever.
By the way, this week I am using Shell and I have had zero sulfur smell. Take a long drive from here to the border of Wyoming on 80. I guarantee you will love the vehicle more. It likes to roll. :bigok:
eskimochaos
Banned
Fadiddy said:
I know, getting over the fact that neither will happen so that your not pissed when it doesnt.
Toyota is going to tell you to F-off and so is any courthouse.
Originally posted by Fadiddy
What do you guys think is a smarter route:
Buy back
or
Keep car with $$$ back
Fadiddy, what is the scope on your attorney's fees? As I mentioned earlier regarding your original post about not having to pay them "they get paid with settlement". I think the answer to your question resides in that contractual agreement. If they take their 30-40-50%??? What is that % based against? $35,000 for the buyback, or $5,000 for the settlement? 30-40-50% of $35,000 is a lot more then 30-40-50% of $5,000. They're going to get their payment, one way or another. Either through the funds from Toyota, or from you. Since you've got an attorney involved, the check will be made to them, not you. And it will be deposited into their trust account, and a new check minus their cut will be what you get back. The question is: What will that amount be, and do you hate your 4runner enough to part with it for that amount?
These situations are very tricky to come out of looking better then when you started. Just by going off of my assumptions, and given the fact that you want to replace the 4runner with something else, I'd have to probably say take the settlement, keep the car, use the proceeds awarded to you to ease the trade-in value hit at the new dealership, and be done with it.
I also don't know your financial structuring of the 4runner? If you financed it, will the proceeds you get be enough to payoff the loan? Because if it's not, and you sell the car back to Toyota, you will be obligated to pay that loan off so they can have the title back. The bank's not going to release their collateral for any reason whatsoever, except for cash.
So, what's the story with the attorney's fees amigo?
PS: There is a TSB for the sulfer smell for 05's too. Although most dealerships will haggle with you to get the service done. But, it can be done.
What do you guys think is a smarter route:
Buy back
or
Keep car with $$$ back
Fadiddy, what is the scope on your attorney's fees? As I mentioned earlier regarding your original post about not having to pay them "they get paid with settlement". I think the answer to your question resides in that contractual agreement. If they take their 30-40-50%??? What is that % based against? $35,000 for the buyback, or $5,000 for the settlement? 30-40-50% of $35,000 is a lot more then 30-40-50% of $5,000. They're going to get their payment, one way or another. Either through the funds from Toyota, or from you. Since you've got an attorney involved, the check will be made to them, not you. And it will be deposited into their trust account, and a new check minus their cut will be what you get back. The question is: What will that amount be, and do you hate your 4runner enough to part with it for that amount?
These situations are very tricky to come out of looking better then when you started. Just by going off of my assumptions, and given the fact that you want to replace the 4runner with something else, I'd have to probably say take the settlement, keep the car, use the proceeds awarded to you to ease the trade-in value hit at the new dealership, and be done with it.
I also don't know your financial structuring of the 4runner? If you financed it, will the proceeds you get be enough to payoff the loan? Because if it's not, and you sell the car back to Toyota, you will be obligated to pay that loan off so they can have the title back. The bank's not going to release their collateral for any reason whatsoever, except for cash.
So, what's the story with the attorney's fees amigo?
PS: There is a TSB for the sulfer smell for 05's too. Although most dealerships will haggle with you to get the service done. But, it can be done.
Cybercannon
New member
Re: Re: Re: Taking Legal Action...Lemon Law!
I would take the settlement and keep the 4R...
But I think you should do the buy back minus fees and find a vehicle that pleases you. You were clearly very upset with the vehicle in it's current condition and if they give you a settlement you're still going to have to put up with the same things that bothered you so much in the first place.
Of course the attorney fees come into play as nc211 is stating, but the vehicle remains the same. I'm also curious what kind of $$ settlement and what kind of $$ buyback are they talking, and then how much of either would the attorney get? For me that would make a differenece. For you, still the same truck and issues unless you dump it.
Alaskaman- Looks like beautiful countryside in that pic. I need to find my way up there sometime.
Fadiddy said:
I would take the settlement and keep the 4R...
But I think you should do the buy back minus fees and find a vehicle that pleases you. You were clearly very upset with the vehicle in it's current condition and if they give you a settlement you're still going to have to put up with the same things that bothered you so much in the first place.
Of course the attorney fees come into play as nc211 is stating, but the vehicle remains the same. I'm also curious what kind of $$ settlement and what kind of $$ buyback are they talking, and then how much of either would the attorney get? For me that would make a differenece. For you, still the same truck and issues unless you dump it.
Alaskaman- Looks like beautiful countryside in that pic. I need to find my way up there sometime.
MrTom
Member
Fadiddy said:
Fididdy is correct in his assessment. I personally have written three letters to the CEO's of Toyota-USA and Toyota-Japan. Have received the US postal received receipts but not one letter has been received from Toyota. When I called they indicated the letters were in my file but it was policy to NOT answer in writing. The following is at least the third time I have seen Toyota admit to the problems:
"Toyota pres admits quality woes are growing pains
Posted Mar 13th 2008 2:29PM by John Neff
Duh. Anyone intimate with the product offerings of General Motors over the past three decades could tell you that the bigger an automaker gets, the harder it is to maintain quality levels that your customers expect. Toyota is learning this lesson first hand, and its president, Katsuaki Watanabe, admitted as much recently to reporters in Japan. At the same time, he cautioned, "The fact that Toyota is growing globally suddenly shouldn't be used as an excuse." True dat.
Toyota is obviously taking measures to address its recent spate of quality problems, attempting to track down the root causes and correct them to prevent future occurrences. But Watanabe also made mention of something he called the "big company disease". He was referring to a sense of arrogance within the automaker, one that most likely has contributed to the company's hiccups. No one doubts the hard work and perseverance that Toyota has dedicated to reaching its lofty position as a global sales leader, but it better learn quickly that even more effort is required to remain there.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/toyota-pres-admits-quality-woes-are-growing-pains/
I personally believe that even though I am not pleased with three unresolved annoyances, the 4Runner is still the best of what is available for me.
Toyota has told me one reason the problems have not been fixed in the 4Runner is that they have not received enough complaints to a non safety related problem! As I have said before they have not been able to completely correct the clunk and harmonic drone in the Lexus GX470 version so it makes no sense to look at the more popular 4Runner.
I too have read articles similiar to this. I believe the concern is being number 1 now, which places the target on you. Add in a completely renovated fleet "Camry, Corolla, ES, GS, LS, IS" etc.. and bugs are bound to pop up. But, nonetheless, they have had some growing pains and problems recently.
Additionally, the harmonic humm is due to the 4.7 V8 not having an EGR system "Exhaust Gas Return", which funnels some of the exhaust back into the engine for another spin through the combustion chamber. The 4.7 V8 doesn't have that, instead, it's all in and all out, which causes more noise (grumble). I for one, am ok w/o it, as dealing with a clogged egr system is a pain in the butt. Especially when the return pipe cracks, and they all do at some point. It's an expensive, irritating, and downright hassle to deal with!
PS: The thump, that is caused by the rear driveshaft, is now being reported on the Lexus LX SUV too. You wanna talk about getting ticked off! Buy that sucker and have this issue, that'd probably tick off Jesus himself!
Additionally, the harmonic humm is due to the 4.7 V8 not having an EGR system "Exhaust Gas Return", which funnels some of the exhaust back into the engine for another spin through the combustion chamber. The 4.7 V8 doesn't have that, instead, it's all in and all out, which causes more noise (grumble). I for one, am ok w/o it, as dealing with a clogged egr system is a pain in the butt. Especially when the return pipe cracks, and they all do at some point. It's an expensive, irritating, and downright hassle to deal with!
PS: The thump, that is caused by the rear driveshaft, is now being reported on the Lexus LX SUV too. You wanna talk about getting ticked off! Buy that sucker and have this issue, that'd probably tick off Jesus himself!
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gizmopt2002
New member
To the OP, I'm glad your issue is being resolved, usually bad publicity takes a company to do things they wouldn't normally do.
Quite honestly I expect duds. You really expect everything to be 100%? I work at a computer shop and we get duds every so often, I expect them and move on.
For example, our '04 is at over 70k now. The only thing that has been wrong was the rear diff gasket was leaking, It was fixed under warranty at 12k and then around 69k it came back. I went to the dealer and told them (after I put a new gasket in) to make sure they put RTV on, per the FSM, because it sure as hell wasn't on when I took out the third (which BTW, weighs a ton)
Now it was possible I caused it when I skidded our 5k# boat because the brakes were locked, in reverse. Either way, we plan on keeping it till it dies and it becomes mine after I graduate college.
I packed the drive line with grease and have yet to feel the clunk again.
Quite honestly I expect duds. You really expect everything to be 100%? I work at a computer shop and we get duds every so often, I expect them and move on.
For example, our '04 is at over 70k now. The only thing that has been wrong was the rear diff gasket was leaking, It was fixed under warranty at 12k and then around 69k it came back. I went to the dealer and told them (after I put a new gasket in) to make sure they put RTV on, per the FSM, because it sure as hell wasn't on when I took out the third (which BTW, weighs a ton)
Now it was possible I caused it when I skidded our 5k# boat because the brakes were locked, in reverse. Either way, we plan on keeping it till it dies and it becomes mine after I graduate college.
I packed the drive line with grease and have yet to feel the clunk again.
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