Talk me into a 2016 Trail Premium w/KDSS
- Thread starter OnTheEllipse
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We currently have a '10 FJ cruiser lifted, a '16 T4R Trail premium, and a '94 RX7 that used to be my track car, and an 18 month old little girl.
Obviously the RX7 is out for any kind of child carrier of any kind ever...
The FJ is a royal PITA to get her in and out of. We have a Diono child seat which is pretty tall and takes up more room in the rear especially when rear facing. I have to put it between the two front seats in order for the passenger to have any leg room at all. It SUCKS trying to hold her and place her gently into the middle of the rear seat fighting the rear suicide 1/2 door and angle of entry. I take her to daycare every morning in my truck. I WAS going to sell the thing and either take over the 4Runner and get the wife another Outback (We loved! More on this later) or get an older landcruiser. Just read that the FJs are increasing in value and may become quite valuable in the future. I'd hate to sell ANOTHER vehicle that is going to be something cool down the road. :hurt:
The 4Runner has been awesome so far. Getting kiddo in and out is 100X easier than in the FJ just because the door opens forward so you have the contour of a real door and you have about 6-8 more inches of space. The truck is also long enough that we have mounted the seat behind the passenger seat of the truck and it still has enough room to at least be comfortable although it's not all the way back. I think life is going to be easier when we can turn the seat forward.
The 4Runner was a long time coming. The wife drove and Sr5 a couple years ago and she really didn't like it. It wallowed and felt too spongy. As much as I wanted the 4Runner at the time as well, we had just driven a Highlander and the Outback and it did feel slow and swayed around. So we ended up on the Outback pre-baby era. Wife decided a few years after (post-baby era now) that she wanted something taller and bigger. We looked at a few things including the new Tahoes $$$ then decided to look at the 4Runner again. This time around she thought it was fine. Slow, but it drove much better. Difference being the KDDS on the Trail we test drove. We went home with it that night.
Now-then... If you are looking for a good al around people carrier that isn't a minivan, I'd say PLEASE look at a 3.6R Outback. They have a real 4wheel drive system in the 3.6R, no low range but it doesn't sound like that's what you're going for. It got really good mileage for its size and had plenty of power on the freeway and up hills. Very smooth and nothing ever went wrong with it. It actually felt easier to get baby in and out of the back of it too. One thing that we found out real fast that was a pain in the ass is that the 4Runner rear door is nearly vertical so it will not open up in our garage without hitting the garage door, and that huge spoiler is also a pain when you flip it up if you happen to have a Yakima Skybox on the top...
Like some people.... And the factory rails suck ass so you'll have to buy aftermarket rails. The Outback was super easy to pop in up on top of and take off as it is also about a foot+ lower at the roofline. You can also access the stuff inside. I mention this because as I found out traveling with a child you don't just take a car seat and extra food, you end up taking about 50 billion support items and accessories and NOTHING fits well together, so we wound up slapping that cargo box up on the car all the time. In case you're thinking the 4Runner has enough room.... It has "more" room, but you can see my rather angrily written post on the factory roof rails because I was trying to but the cargo box up on the 4Runner to go camping with kiddo.
Personally I like the 4Runner. I've always had trucks. If you end up on this truck get the KDDS, you'll love it. IF you don't need a real 4X4 or don't have a special place in your heart for a 4Runner that you are willing to give up some comfort for, and don't want a mini van, I'd say look at the Outback. It's FAR superior as an every day car and does everything you'll need as well or better than the 4Runner (way... WAY better in slow too) unless you really need the 4X4 abilities of the T4R.
Obviously the RX7 is out for any kind of child carrier of any kind ever...
The FJ is a royal PITA to get her in and out of. We have a Diono child seat which is pretty tall and takes up more room in the rear especially when rear facing. I have to put it between the two front seats in order for the passenger to have any leg room at all. It SUCKS trying to hold her and place her gently into the middle of the rear seat fighting the rear suicide 1/2 door and angle of entry. I take her to daycare every morning in my truck. I WAS going to sell the thing and either take over the 4Runner and get the wife another Outback (We loved! More on this later) or get an older landcruiser. Just read that the FJs are increasing in value and may become quite valuable in the future. I'd hate to sell ANOTHER vehicle that is going to be something cool down the road. :hurt:
The 4Runner has been awesome so far. Getting kiddo in and out is 100X easier than in the FJ just because the door opens forward so you have the contour of a real door and you have about 6-8 more inches of space. The truck is also long enough that we have mounted the seat behind the passenger seat of the truck and it still has enough room to at least be comfortable although it's not all the way back. I think life is going to be easier when we can turn the seat forward.
The 4Runner was a long time coming. The wife drove and Sr5 a couple years ago and she really didn't like it. It wallowed and felt too spongy. As much as I wanted the 4Runner at the time as well, we had just driven a Highlander and the Outback and it did feel slow and swayed around. So we ended up on the Outback pre-baby era. Wife decided a few years after (post-baby era now) that she wanted something taller and bigger. We looked at a few things including the new Tahoes $$$ then decided to look at the 4Runner again. This time around she thought it was fine. Slow, but it drove much better. Difference being the KDDS on the Trail we test drove. We went home with it that night.
Now-then... If you are looking for a good al around people carrier that isn't a minivan, I'd say PLEASE look at a 3.6R Outback. They have a real 4wheel drive system in the 3.6R, no low range but it doesn't sound like that's what you're going for. It got really good mileage for its size and had plenty of power on the freeway and up hills. Very smooth and nothing ever went wrong with it. It actually felt easier to get baby in and out of the back of it too. One thing that we found out real fast that was a pain in the ass is that the 4Runner rear door is nearly vertical so it will not open up in our garage without hitting the garage door, and that huge spoiler is also a pain when you flip it up if you happen to have a Yakima Skybox on the top...
Like some people.... And the factory rails suck ass so you'll have to buy aftermarket rails. The Outback was super easy to pop in up on top of and take off as it is also about a foot+ lower at the roofline. You can also access the stuff inside. I mention this because as I found out traveling with a child you don't just take a car seat and extra food, you end up taking about 50 billion support items and accessories and NOTHING fits well together, so we wound up slapping that cargo box up on the car all the time. In case you're thinking the 4Runner has enough room.... It has "more" room, but you can see my rather angrily written post on the factory roof rails because I was trying to but the cargo box up on the 4Runner to go camping with kiddo. Personally I like the 4Runner. I've always had trucks. If you end up on this truck get the KDDS, you'll love it. IF you don't need a real 4X4 or don't have a special place in your heart for a 4Runner that you are willing to give up some comfort for, and don't want a mini van, I'd say look at the Outback. It's FAR superior as an every day car and does everything you'll need as well or better than the 4Runner (way... WAY better in slow too) unless you really need the 4X4 abilities of the T4R.
Softex is awesome for repelling baby mess. Which absolutly will happen regardless of safety measures. When you're tired and want to go home and your child is throwing a fit because she wants Cheerios in the car... Sometimes you give her cheerios.... And they are always covered in crumbs of some kind. I'll hose my kiddo down and swear she's clean and she still drops stuff all over..
Also Mybabydaddy, do you have a picture of your rig? Your lift is about exactly what I'm trying to do with the wife's truck. She doesn't want a big lift, or any lift really, but I'd like to raise the nose up a little and even it out. I have the Spydertax 1.25 spacers on outs as well already.
OnTheEllipse
Member
We currently have a '10 FJ cruiser lifted, a '16 T4R Trail premium, and a '94 RX7 that used to be my track car, and an 18 month old little girl.
Obviously the RX7 is out for any kind of child carrier of any kind ever...
The FJ is a royal PITA to get her in and out of. We have a Diono child seat which is pretty tall and takes up more room in the rear especially when rear facing. I have to put it between the two front seats in order for the passenger to have any leg room at all. It SUCKS trying to hold her and place her gently into the middle of the rear seat fighting the rear suicide 1/2 door and angle of entry. I take her to daycare every morning in my truck. I WAS going to sell the thing and either take over the 4Runner and get the wife another Outback (We loved! More on this later) or get an older landcruiser. Just read that the FJs are increasing in value and may become quite valuable in the future. I'd hate to sell ANOTHER vehicle that is going to be something cool down the road. :hurt:
The 4Runner has been awesome so far. Getting kiddo in and out is 100X easier than in the FJ just because the door opens forward so you have the contour of a real door and you have about 6-8 more inches of space. The truck is also long enough that we have mounted the seat behind the passenger seat of the truck and it still has enough room to at least be comfortable although it's not all the way back. I think life is going to be easier when we can turn the seat forward.
The 4Runner was a long time coming. The wife drove and Sr5 a couple years ago and she really didn't like it. It wallowed and felt too spongy. As much as I wanted the 4Runner at the time as well, we had just driven a Highlander and the Outback and it did feel slow and swayed around. So we ended up on the Outback pre-baby era. Wife decided a few years after (post-baby era now) that she wanted something taller and bigger. We looked at a few things including the new Tahoes $$$ then decided to look at the 4Runner again. This time around she thought it was fine. Slow, but it drove much better. Difference being the KDDS on the Trail we test drove. We went home with it that night.
Now-then... If you are looking for a good al around people carrier that isn't a minivan, I'd say PLEASE look at a 3.6R Outback. They have a real 4wheel drive system in the 3.6R, no low range but it doesn't sound like that's what you're going for. It got really good mileage for its size and had plenty of power on the freeway and up hills. Very smooth and nothing ever went wrong with it. It actually felt easier to get baby in and out of the back of it too. One thing that we found out real fast that was a pain in the ass is that the 4Runner rear door is nearly vertical so it will not open up in our garage without hitting the garage door, and that huge spoiler is also a pain when you flip it up if you happen to have a Yakima Skybox on the top...
Personally I like the 4Runner. I've always had trucks. If you end up on this truck get the KDDS, you'll love it. IF you don't need a real 4X4 or don't have a special place in your heart for a 4Runner that you are willing to give up some comfort for, and don't want a mini van, I'd say look at the Outback. It's FAR superior as an every day car and does everything you'll need as well or better than the 4Runner (way... WAY better in slow too) unless you really need the 4X4 abilities of the T4R.
really appreciate you taking the time for that reply. that's a lot to think about
I'd sort of ruled out Subarus because mine constantly needs some suspension part replaced, that damn heat shield constantly wants to rattle and I had to have my head gaskets replaced. If I hadn't purchased the extended warranty, it would've been a real bummer.
That's odd. We never had a single thing go wrong with the Outback, but we only had it for three years and bought it brand new. Is yours an older one?
I honestly feel that Toyota has slipped on their fit and finish in particular in their trucks. The Outback felt much more solid and actually more comfortable. It felt almost German in it's construction where things solid.
We changed the rear sway bar to the thicker one that everybody recommended on the forums too which significantly decreased body roll and increased handling crispness. It also kept it from experiencing the dreaded death sway in cross winds.
OnTheEllipse
Member
Mine is a 2008. Head gaskets went at 80k miles. My co-worker just had the same thing happen to her later model Outback (apparently the problem was solved in 2008....but it doesn't appear to be the case).
Just checked out the 3.6R's...pretty close to the price of a TEP KDSS!
my experience has scared me away from Subaru, at least for this go-round.
mybabydaddy
New member
I need to do some new pics... but let me dig around. I dropped the Spidertrax for some F/N Countersteer Type Xs...not that doing so has jack to do with my lift (height). I too cannot STAND the factory rake/squatty nose/nose-dive. I traded the softer ride for my current set-up, but it’s starting to get more and more unnoticeable these days. I’d still do it over again anyhow... Heck I’d do it just to eliminate the nose-dive part. However, I started on this (small) endeavor with the same exact goal as you.... just fix the rake a little. If you all can live with the nose-dive, I (personally) would throw in some small spacers up front and call it a day. IF you want to (or don’t mind as a result) stiffen the ride up a bit, replace all four corners with Bilstein 5100s and set the fronts to .85. Thus, you don’t really “lift” anything except the front just over an inch. She wouldn’t even notice the difference in height (but she’ll dang sure notice the harsher ride I would guess).
That's too bad. We never had a thing go wrong with ours. I think it was at 60K+ miles when it went back into the pool. The price is fairly close, in my opinion you get a LOT more car with the Subi, but some less truck. Did you have the horizontally opposed 6 or the 4? I'm interested because we may go back to a Subaru here in the near future if I can't stand the FJ anymore.
The other thing to look at is a Highlander. That was #2 at the time. The new ones are pretty cool and longer than the previous generation. Being uni-body and car based they ride a lot better and with the AWD they can get you to any camp site and through snow like crazy without giving up as much road manners as the 4Runner.
Doing some research I found this:
These vehicles all have cylinder head gasket related issues:
Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006
Also only on the 4 Cylinder cars. Something to think about. Dig on this. http://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/2014/01/30/dreaded-subaru-head-gasket-issue
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I was considering the Toytech coilovers in the front and cranking them down so there is very little lift overall. Just enough to point the nose up, and replace the factory shocks at the same time with nice Billies. This seems silly when it's just for the wife's car, however, the thought is that it will eventually be passed down to me. ( I just bought it, pay for it, maintain it etc.... :whip2: ) Another reason we went with the Trail rather than the LTD. At which time it becomes my daily, I will already have coilovers installed in the nose and I can then buy my big ridiculous springs for the rear and crank up the nose to level it out and not deal with the install again.
I have this setup on the FJ but it came with the off road package so I used the stock Billstiens with the coilover conversion. Nose firmly in the air and it's worked out well.
I love the KDSS and our TEP, but if you're very concerned about car seat fit and ease of getting the little one in and out. Make sure you and your wife try it out with car seat installed. We have a chicco nextfit (and a keyfit 30 before that). In the 4Runner we put the car seat behind the driver seat so my wife has room to lean back. There's plenty of leg room, but not a lot of room to lean back with car seat installed. Also, my wife does not like getting the LO in and out of 4Runner due to height of vehicle and relatively small opening with car seat installed compared to our Highlander. The Highlander is definitely an easier and roomier family vehicle.
Also check your garage fit for hatch opening room, most will hit the garage for without some type of modification.
Also check your garage fit for hatch opening room, most will hit the garage for without some type of modification.
OnTheEllipse
Member
after trying to fit a stroller, a cooler and a child into my Outback today, I'm not even sure a 4Runner would be big enough. Throw a dog into the mix and it would be impossible.
OnTheEllipse
Member
can't even comprehend. quick search for used Sequoias.....even more expensive. crap!
e60ral
Banned
E-series Quigly time
OnTheEllipse
Member
trying to lower my price expectations:
how difficult/how much would it cost me to get a SR5/SR5 Premium or Trail (non-Premium) to improve it's on-road mannerisms without making it a pure street vehicle?
How close can I get to KDSS?
how difficult/how much would it cost me to get a SR5/SR5 Premium or Trail (non-Premium) to improve it's on-road mannerisms without making it a pure street vehicle?
How close can I get to KDSS?
I was just in a similar situation to you a few weeks ago and I ended up with a 4runner limited.
I was coming out of 07 explorer v8 that i had done some engine mods to and drove very hard on and offroad (light offroading including hunting & remote camping trips then general idiocy like 4wd drifts and donuts). After going through one transmission @ 36k miles and some suspension parts beginning to break around the 60k mile mark, I decided it was time to stop throwing money @ an aging car of little value and get into something else.
I needed something with room to haul a bunch of gear and people for hunting trips, have at least decent offroad capability, good on-road manners, and ideally be very reliable as well as have good power. I found that there arent too many options out there in the 40-50k range that fit these criteria (...a land cruiser would be perfect but man are they $$$). I ended up looking at the following:
- explorer sport & limited: good features, lots of room, and the ttv6 is great. the sport was the sweet spot in terms of features and price, but at the end of the day the explorer is now pretty much a minivan w/ 4wd (which very well may suit your needs perfectly as even with a third row there is still room to spare) I moved away from this option bc of limited offroad capability, it doesnt hold value like the toyota/lexus, and i didnt think it would hold up as well over the longrun.
-acura mdx--drives like a car, basically has the offroad capability of an awd car, & the interior/technology was basically the same as what is in my fiance's 2011 tsx. Nope.
- 4runner trd pro & a limited: i liked the interior and driving dynamics of the limited more than the pro. the tr4 checked all of the boxes for me except power. my only other gripe about the car is the lack of any additional storage compartments in the trunk. My explorer happened to have a bunch of these and i found them very useful.
-lexus gx460: not the prettiest vehicle, but a nice car none the less. I walked away realizing that its basically a 4runner limited with a v8, a six speed, a weird back door, and a price tag of about 10k+ more. This car also has a standard third-row seat that really eats into cargo space
anyway, i'm really happy with the tr4 so far. the only thing i think it needs is a new set of tires. hope this helps
I was coming out of 07 explorer v8 that i had done some engine mods to and drove very hard on and offroad (light offroading including hunting & remote camping trips then general idiocy like 4wd drifts and donuts). After going through one transmission @ 36k miles and some suspension parts beginning to break around the 60k mile mark, I decided it was time to stop throwing money @ an aging car of little value and get into something else.
I needed something with room to haul a bunch of gear and people for hunting trips, have at least decent offroad capability, good on-road manners, and ideally be very reliable as well as have good power. I found that there arent too many options out there in the 40-50k range that fit these criteria (...a land cruiser would be perfect but man are they $$$). I ended up looking at the following:
- explorer sport & limited: good features, lots of room, and the ttv6 is great. the sport was the sweet spot in terms of features and price, but at the end of the day the explorer is now pretty much a minivan w/ 4wd (which very well may suit your needs perfectly as even with a third row there is still room to spare) I moved away from this option bc of limited offroad capability, it doesnt hold value like the toyota/lexus, and i didnt think it would hold up as well over the longrun.
-acura mdx--drives like a car, basically has the offroad capability of an awd car, & the interior/technology was basically the same as what is in my fiance's 2011 tsx. Nope.
- 4runner trd pro & a limited: i liked the interior and driving dynamics of the limited more than the pro. the tr4 checked all of the boxes for me except power. my only other gripe about the car is the lack of any additional storage compartments in the trunk. My explorer happened to have a bunch of these and i found them very useful.
-lexus gx460: not the prettiest vehicle, but a nice car none the less. I walked away realizing that its basically a 4runner limited with a v8, a six speed, a weird back door, and a price tag of about 10k+ more. This car also has a standard third-row seat that really eats into cargo space
anyway, i'm really happy with the tr4 so far. the only thing i think it needs is a new set of tires. hope this helps
Swede71
New member
Love my TEP with KDSS, everything about it suits my lifestyle both on and off-road. I do take it places where others with more modified vehicles go. Only difference is I am a bit more careful how I drive being I do not have a lift kit(may get one in the future). On-road it is the tightest vehicle i have owned in this class, plenty of room, power and not amazing but not bad fuel economy. Test drive whatever you are comparing and go with gut feeling, gut feeling is always right. 
I get it.
Look around for a used 2014 with KDSS. They are hard to find, often because the dealers have no idea what they own. I just bought a 2014 TEP with KDSS and 26k miles for $31900 with about $300 in fees. I would expect you can find one with under 30k for under $34,000 it will just take some effort, but in the end you will have no compromise. Mine should be here on Thursday so looking forward to checking it out. I drove both non KDSS and KDSS versions and in short drives I could tell the difference.
Look around for a used 2014 with KDSS. They are hard to find, often because the dealers have no idea what they own. I just bought a 2014 TEP with KDSS and 26k miles for $31900 with about $300 in fees. I would expect you can find one with under 30k for under $34,000 it will just take some effort, but in the end you will have no compromise. Mine should be here on Thursday so looking forward to checking it out. I drove both non KDSS and KDSS versions and in short drives I could tell the difference.
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