Talk me through brake bleed/fluid replacement

j_h_cole

j_h_cole

New member
Last weekend I dove into replacing rotors/pads on our 2003 Limited and I quickly discovered that both front calipers had the infamous inner pistons siezed/frozen that plagues 4th gen T4R's.

I went down to Napa and picked up some re-man'd front calipers (whatever series is painted black).

I got the calipers bolted up and lines switched over with little issue, and finished all 4 rotors and new pads.

Bleed time - here's what I did:

Key --> ON

Depressed pedal 10x times, confirmed can hear booster motor humming...

Had a friend depress pedal fully 5 times and hold down, I then cracked right-rear bleeder, waited for what seemed to be continuous flow in the clear tubing (maybe 5 sec), closed bleed screw, released pedal.

Repeated on left-rear, right-front, left-front

Pedal feel is way softer/squisy than before. Must apply much more brake just to keep the truck still when you drop it into gear. I'd estimate driving around you have to go through over half the pedal travel before you feel the car slowing down.

Obviously I have brand new calipers, so sticking isn't an issue, and new pads and rotors so wear isn't an issue. I'm assuming there must still be alot of air in the lines.

What do I try next to improve pedal feel?

Do I need to replace fluid? (It's probably never been done, 165,000 miles).
Do I just need to bleed again and let more fluid come out?
Did I perform the bleed incorrectly?
 
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Man, seriously just get a speed bleeders, makes a job 1-person and fool proof. I just replaced rotors, pads and calipers upfront and speed bleeders made the job quick and easy. Best $30 I spent on this truck, since I will be bleeding my brakes and changing fluid every year from now on to avoid frozen calipers issue. I had emulsion with water coming out of front lines, thats how bad the issue was. Keep in mind that I replaced calipers, rotors, pads and fluid just 2 years prior.
 
paraordnance said:
Man, seriously just get a speed bleeders, makes a job 1-person and fool proof. I just replaced rotors, pads and calipers upfront and speed bleeders made the job quick and easy. Best $30 I spent on this truck, since I will be bleeding my brakes and changing fluid every year from now on to avoid frozen calipers issue. I had emulsion with water coming out of front lines, thats how bad the issue was. Keep in mind that I replaced calipers, rotors, pads and fluid just 2 years prior.
Click to expand...

Can you post me a link to the set you bought?

EDIT: found them


Can you post your ideal step-by-step for installing these and flushing fluid, then bleeding?
 
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Speedbleeders are well worth the extra cost. Something I've noticed about the air bubbles is that if the hose isn't perfectly fit onto the bleeder, it can pull external air into the tube and make the appearance that its coming from your brake lines. Just something to be aware of.

Also it sounds like your procedure is correct, you want to bleed them in the order greatest distance to the least distance, rear right, rear left, front right, front left.

After you bleed the line and refill, your brakes should be rock hard.

I assume the reservoir never went dry? That could cause big issues.

Ideally, brake fluid should be changed out every 3 years or so because the fluid is hygroscopic and can absorb water.
 
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This thread is relevant to my interests. I have all new pads and steel braided lines sitting on the floor and I plan on flushing all the fluid and replacing with fresh.

Looking up speed bleeders now.
 
j_h_cole said:
Any tips regarding the removal of old fluid, and adding the new? Just turkey baster it out, and refill?
Click to expand...

With speedbleeders its easy to loosen the bleeder on the caliper and pump brakes. Easiest to do with two people. Just make sure to continuously top up the reservoir as it drains so it doesn't go dry.
 
speed bleeders may be great, but they will wont get air out any better than traditional bleeders. they just make it a one man job, instead of 2.

I haven't had the opportunity to bleed the brakes on my 4runner yet, but I have done MANY other vehicles.

you shouldn't need the key on for any of it.

also, pumping the pedal isn't ideal. its best to have someone press the pedal down, while you open a bleeder. close it, then have them release the pedal. give it a solid 10 second count, then do it again. until there is no more air.

pumping the pedal will aerate the fluid making it very difficult to get all the air out.
 
I have always pumped the brake pedal til it is stiff, then release the valve while someone else is holding the pedal down until they get their foot to the metal, then once it is down, tighten up the bleeder valve, have them pump it until stiff again and repeat a few times on each or until you can tell that there is no more air coming out.
 
nevada said:
pumping the pedal will aerate the fluid making it very difficult to get all the air out.
Click to expand...


I've never had an issue with this, neither anyone at my shop including all of the Toyota master techs there with 25+ years experience, they pump same as i do. I could be wrong, just stating none of us have ever had that issue with not getting all of the air out.
 
Wikki said:
I've never had an issue with this, neither anyone at my shop including all of the Toyota master techs there with 25+ years experience, they pump same as i do. I could be wrong, just stating none of us have ever had that issue with not getting all of the air out.
Click to expand...
try it the way I suggested and see how you like it.

since switching over, we use much less brake fluid during a bleed, and it takes less time.
 
nevada said:
try it the way I suggested and see how you like it.

since switching over, we use much less brake fluid during a bleed, and it takes less time.
Click to expand...

You're saying two different things in your posts.

Aeration vs time and material cost.

If there's fluid in the reservoir, you should be able to pump to your hearts content and aeration shouldn't change.

Faster? Less fluid? Sure... i'll buy that all day but you have a lot of convincing to do on how pumping the pedal changes the amount of air in the line.
 
j_h_cole said:
Tracked down the FSM bleed procedure, which does state to have the key to ON
Click to expand...
like I said, I haven't had a chance to do it on mine yet. I don't see a reason to have the key on. the MC will still push fluid when the pedal is depressed.

IF you somehow got air IN the MC, then absolutely yes, the key would need to be on so the unit could cycle the solenoids to flush the air out.
but, for what you described, you only need to move fluid through the MC, not air.
 
swapmeet said:
You're saying two different things in your posts.

Aeration vs time and material cost.

If there's fluid in the reservoir, you should be able to pump to your hearts content and aeration shouldn't change.

Faster? Less fluid? Sure... i'll buy that all day but you have a lot of convincing to do on how pumping the pedal changes the amount of air in the line.
Click to expand...
it doesn't change the amount air. do you know what aerate means?

I have seen it first hand, it works. I was instructed to do it this way at an ABS instructional seminar. we used to do it the old way, multiple pumps. the fluid would come out foamy, and take a LONG time to get it all out.

with single pumps, no foam, and its VERY quick.
 
This confusion is why I wanted some clarification on all this...

SST or not?

Speedbleeders or not?

Ignition ON or not?

Vacuum bleed or not?

Seems like these trucks are rather tricky, I just need some more pedal feel, quick!
 
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