TE w/ or w/o KDSS...Should I go new?

[Goyo]

Greetings fellow 4Runners !

First and foremost, thank you for all your contributions to this forum, it is a fantastic place to learn !!!

I am looking to buy my first 4Runner. Although the 4th Gen is a great truck, there are various reasons why I am going with the 5th, a TE that is. Currently I am looking all around the USA for a used one since in wide open Texas is almost impossible to find it. So far, two very nice examples are in the northeast, but one in MA which has the most strange rules for registration and buying it appears to be a task almost as difficult as finding one 5th TE near Texas ! Then is another nice used one in the NY area, looks nice and all, but it does not have KDSS. Now, after a little bit more searching in the Gulf States, there is the possibility to find a new one with KDSS, but off course there is depreciation, even though there is also more warranty !

Q: is the KDSS that great that should grant the price of admission and buy new? I have changed cars twice in the last four years (first new then used), but this time I am swearing to the missus that this is it, the final one that my three years old will drive when he gets his license. Two points then, (1) the difference of money “lost” between buying now a used one vs. a new one is going to be minimal after 10+ years, and (2) should I be worried for the KDSS extra gadgetry longevity (I know KDSS have been around quite a while with the LC, but we all know that they do not do things like in the good old days, right?)?.

Cheers !!!

Goyo.

 

[Jeremy556]

I would get it, otherwise you will be regreting not getting it later. There are not that many extra gizmos to go wrong, when compared with the rest of the vehicle, and the big sway bars make the 4runner handle fantastic on road.

 

[Mijfwb23]

Plus the multi terrain select sort acts like a limited slip for the front. I am definitely glad I got it.
I went used and picked up one with 7000 miles on it, mint condition plus got the toyota certified warranty. And saved almost $8k off new. I don't drive far so I just broke 20k about a week ago on my 2010.

 

[tjnaples]

Do the KDSS for onroad. Offroad it is only icing on the cake.

 

[4ShoreRunner]

I hate seeing another KDSS vs Non-KDSS thread...*sigh* but I feel like I should share my opinion anyway.

My opinion is 100% dependent on whether or not you intend to lift the vehicle or replace any suspension components.

If you have no intention on replacing any suspension components, then you should probably go with the KDSS as it will out preform a non-kdss truck on the road; however, I argue that if you replace the suspension, that will preform better than a stock-KDSS TE and then not be worth the extra cost of KDSS.

Off-road, my stock non-KDSS TE would flex just as well as a KDSS equipped TE, and now with the lift and more travel, it flexes even better.

 

[Goyo]

Thank you all!

Yes, 4ShoreRunner, you are right...yet another KDSS one ! However, I can tell you that I have read as much as I could before asking, hence please do not :roadkill: me...

I can tell there has been a lot of debate about this before, but coming back to what 4ShoreRunner said, how much of replacing (and how much $$$) needs to be done to achive the KDSS confort on the road that many had talked about, if it is that is possible to achive this aftermarket "kdss" onroad at all? It seems clear to me that the offroad aftermarket changes to get "kdss" really can catch up with the original KDSS.

Cheers,

Goyo.

 

[characterzero]

difference of opinion

Coming from a Frontier that had Radflo suspension, I can tell you that the on-road performance of the KDSS is much nicer than the Radflo was for 95% of conditions.

With off road suspension, in order to negate the body lean, you are adding low speed compression damping. This also causes your suspension to be LESS responsive on speedbumps/potholes/road matter under about 30mph (from my experience). Once you are up to speed, the suspension performs better. With KDSS, the body lean is controlled by the system, while the suspension is still allows good low speed compression characteristics.


Sure, some people might not mind the changes or even like the ride that way more, but to say you can achieve what the KDSS does with aftermarket suspension is simply not true. Everything has a compromise, and KDSS works to mitigate the compromises.


That being said, I drove the SR5 and LE and then bought a KDSS TE (sight unseen) and am very happy with the suspension to the point where I won't be changing much, if anything.

Another note: When looking to buy, for the same price I found two TEs:
1. ICON Stage 3 fully installed with 2 sets of wheels/tires, kick-ass looking truck!
2. TCUV pre-owned stock TE with KDSS

After having direct feedback on the ride quality of my buddy's ICON Taco, I decided to try the stock route...

 

[joneseyyy]

I would echo what 4Shorerunner said.

Keep in mind that KDSS will not eliminate the nose dive that everyone hates, however it will make the truck corner better in stock form, so you very may well get the KDSS, and still want to upgrade the suspension to eliminate the nose dive.

CharacterZero - I'd leave the feedback on Icon suspension to the many, many folks that run it here on the 4runner. Not sure that your buddy's experience with them on a different vehicle, not knowing the types of tires or setup he is running is tremendously relevant.

 

[4ShoreRunner]

Coming from a Frontier that had Radflo suspension, I can tell you that the on-road performance of the KDSS is much nicer than the Radflo was for 95% of conditions.

[.....]

After having direct feedback on the ride quality of my buddy's ICON Taco, I decided to try the stock route...

Everyone with KDSS loves it - I'm sure those that have paid the premium don't regret it. I'm just putting my name in the bucket of people that have chosen not to pay the premium and don't regret it.

I will never argue against the points you made on suspension compression/dapening, I simply want to point out that you are comparing apples and oranges here with these trucks and leaf springs and want the OP to make the most appropriate decision for them with all the accurate information.

 

[homeyclaus]

I have kdss on mine, and for what it is, it's outstanding engineering.

As 4shorerunner said, you can get an as good or better set of compromises going aftermarket. But they are all compromises. So if you plan on doing suspension work anyways, you lose little in skipping kdss, plus there will be less risk, real or imagined, doing that suspension work.

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

I hate seeing another KDSS vs Non-KDSS thread...*sigh* but I feel like I should share my opinion anyway.

My opinion is 100% dependent on whether or not you intend to lift the vehicle or replace any suspension components.

If you have no intention on replacing any suspension components, then you should probably go with the KDSS as it will out preform a non-kdss truck on the road; however, I argue that if you replace the suspension, that will preform better than a stock-KDSS TE and then not be worth the extra cost of KDSS.

Off-road, my stock non-KDSS TE would flex just as well as a KDSS equipped TE, and now with the lift and more travel, it flexes even better.

Agree with this completely. Well stated.
I happen to be one of the few who bought KDSS and removed the front sway bar, in effect, eliminating the system. My build thread shows why.

In short, like 4ShoreRunner said, I believe that if you want a great trail worthy vehicle that runs great on road as well as off and you don't plan on doing any massive suspension changes, the KDSS is great. If you do plan on swapping out components and getting some nice high quality 2.5" coil-overs, I would think twice about getting the KDSS option and possibly save the money. Just based on my experience and opinion.

 

[Goyo]

Thank you very much all of you for your answers and advice!

OK, so let me ask this then: Ball park figure, how much could cost, money and time, to upgrade a non-KDSS TE with aftermarket parts to take it close to a stock KDSS TE? And, by doing these upgrades, am I voiding the Toyota warranty?

Cheers,

Goyo

 

[Goyo]

Agree with this completely. Well stated.
I happen to be one of the few who bought KDSS and removed the front sway bar, in effect, eliminating the system. My build thread shows why.

In short, like 4ShoreRunner said, I believe that if you want a great trail worthy vehicle that runs great on road as well as off and you don't plan on doing any massive suspension changes, the KDSS is great. If you do plan on swapping out components and getting some nice high quality 2.5" coil-overs, I would think twice about getting the KDSS option and possibly save the money. Just based on my experience and opinion.

OMG...

I will never achive such state of mods...!!! Congrats on all the hard and nice work you have done SoCalTrail...!!! Fantastic !!

Cheer,s

G.

 

[Goyo]

Thank you very much all of you for your answers and advice!

OK, so let me ask this then: Ball park figure, how much could cost, money and time, to upgrade a non-KDSS TE with aftermarket parts to take it close to a stock KDSS TE? And, by doing these upgrades, am I voiding the Toyota warranty?

Cheers,

Goyo

C'man guys, a little help here !!

So far, I have found that if I want to do a SR5/Limited look a like TE, it could cost at around $3000 or so.

But I am more interested to know if I were to do an aftermarket non-kdss to feel as much as possible like a stock kdss, how much it could be?

Cheers !!

Goyo

 

[Jeremy556]

I don't think you really can replicate KDSS. You can either change out the springs and shocks to give you the minimal body roll, at the expense of soft ride, or you can put on some big sway bars to minimize the body roll at the expense of off road flexibility.

 

[36bound]

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, the KDSS system really is not all that expensive. And I can say with absolutely certainty that it is well worth the money. Besides, it is one of the key features that sets the TE apart from the SR5 and LE. Not trying to imply that the TE is any better than the other models, but it is, in fact, designed to be functionally different. Why order the TE and minimize its intended "out of the box" performance/capability?

Good luck to you regardless of your decision. Let's not forget that anyone fortunate enough to afford a 4runner- in any configuration - is a fortunate individual indeed. Millions will wake up today wondering where their next MEAL will come from. Having to choose between KDSS and no KDSS is "decision" many will never have the opportunity to contemplate.

 

[smilycook]

If you are planning on going new. Maybe a good question is how much serious off roading do you plan on doing? Or are you just concerned about road manners? The KDSS system will not engage during normal driving conditions. In off-road conditions, KDSS activates when it senses that a wheel has dropped. You could install a set of blisten shocks on all the corners for a lot cheaper than KDSS.

On the road the XREAS is the best stock system at preventing body roll and brake dive.

 

[ssmathis]

The KDSS system will not engage during normal driving conditions.

This is false. KDSS is active all the time, even on-road.

 

[smilycook]

This is false. KDSS is active all the time, even on-road.

The onroad benefit you get from having KDSS is the fact that you get a thicker sway bar so you get less body roll. So on the road KDSS is actively not disconnecting the sway bar. KDSS does not connect the shocks only the sway bars.

 

[Ttn333]

The onroad benefit you get from having KDSS is the fact that you get a thicker sway bar so you get less body roll. So on the road KDSS is actively not disconnecting the sway bar. KDSS does not connect the shocks only the sway bars.

So yes, get the KDSS for better on road drive as well as off road. I've seen people regret NOT getting KDSS, but have not seen one person regretting having KDSS. Otherwise, don't bother with a TE, get a LE. You can add on TE exterior parts for aesthetics but you can't add KDSS.