The Big 3. Bail Em Out Or Not??
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NDRYDEN123
New member
personally i dont really know what to do. i couldnt imagine what it would be like w/o the big 3.
Hayn4R
New member
alaskaman said:
Four letters and one suffix:
BUSH Jr.
Thanks W. for spending trillions on a war with the wrong country so your butt-buddy Cheney could make "uber-trillions" by sending in his company Haliburtant (however you spell the devil company) to capture all of the oil.
Fastforward 8 years later, and what do you know...a recession.
When Osama won the election, I am sure W. thought we finally caught Obama. What a douche! Cant we just impeach his ass already....why wait till January...he is only going to do as much legislative damage as he possibly can until then.
Uneek
Super Moderator
I can't say I'm for or against the bailing out the Big Three. I feel bad for all those who would lose their jobs (for). But all three dug their own graves. If we do bail them out, where do we stop? What industry is next? I don't think bailing them out will help, it's a bottomless pit (against).
I need a bailout too. I want to be prepared for the worst.
:
The economy turned to crap because of the credit crunch which resulted from greed. Lending WITHOUT income verification or zero down?!?! Would anyone here lend $10 or even $5 to a complete stranger or let a minimum wage person borrow a few hundred bucks and expect the to pay it back in a month? Lenders just wanted to close loans and reap the bonuses.
Impeaching W would be sweet, even if he only has a two months left in office. Just like recalling Arnold.
I need a bailout too. I want to be prepared for the worst.
: The economy turned to crap because of the credit crunch which resulted from greed. Lending WITHOUT income verification or zero down?!?! Would anyone here lend $10 or even $5 to a complete stranger or let a minimum wage person borrow a few hundred bucks and expect the to pay it back in a month? Lenders just wanted to close loans and reap the bonuses.
Impeaching W would be sweet, even if he only has a two months left in office. Just like recalling Arnold.
Iron Clad Lou
New member
Uneek said:
+1
dingo
New member
I really feel for those workers on the cutting block. But I really couldn't give a rat's ass for the big 3. They've made mistakes, haven't learned from any of them, their pompous executives are stuck in their old ways. All at the expense of their customers and more importantly their workers. It's a hard lesson for the companies to learn but it should be learned. Let them eat those mistakes and certainly not at the cost of the tax payers.
I say no bail out. Why pump more money into a black hole? You don't invest more into a failing company which makes inferior products nobody wants. The public does not want a crappy product. I see their vehicles on the road and just don't see the appeal. Now they are begging and whining because they are tanking. Gee, wonder why. Let the big... or rather, small 3 fail.
I say no bail out. Why pump more money into a black hole? You don't invest more into a failing company which makes inferior products nobody wants. The public does not want a crappy product. I see their vehicles on the road and just don't see the appeal. Now they are begging and whining because they are tanking. Gee, wonder why. Let the big... or rather, small 3 fail.
greyghost4x4
New member
If we bail them out, they still do not have a plan on what they would do to turn their business around. We need to say "no" and let them declare bankrupcy like the airlines.
Evan
Evan
ALt4r
New member
Uneek said it best, we can't keep doing this. Although these are huge companies we cant just hand em money when they need it. They got themselves in trouble, maybe if they go under it will be a lesson to other large companies that you won't get a 'get out of jail free' card everytime you're not turning a huge profit.
rook
New member
the credit crisis.. it is partially greed, but the banks were also naive in purchasing loans from wholesalers looking to make a quick buck.. it was the mortgage brokers who did a lot of damage and the money was passed down the line, with the securities market left holding the bag..
the UAW has a stranglehold on american automakers.. nissan, honda, toyota are all able to run efficient plants, pay good wages and keep the workforce happy without being saddled with the union...
america needs.. i repeat needs these skilled manufacturing jobs.. we have the workforce, talent and education infrastructure to support the business...
without labor and management reform in the big 3, especially GM, a bailout is just a band-aid...
the UAW has a stranglehold on american automakers.. nissan, honda, toyota are all able to run efficient plants, pay good wages and keep the workforce happy without being saddled with the union...
america needs.. i repeat needs these skilled manufacturing jobs.. we have the workforce, talent and education infrastructure to support the business...
without labor and management reform in the big 3, especially GM, a bailout is just a band-aid...
BurghRunner
New member
Rook - you said what I was thinkin'. The bailout is only a temp fix to major problems. It's obvious that management needs major changes.
Showing up in private planes to ask for money goes beyond bad financial planning. It says that these guys know nothing about image and public response. Statistically, auto execs in Japan make approx. 12X the salary of a line worker. In the US that figure is almost 600X!
Showing up in private planes to ask for money goes beyond bad financial planning. It says that these guys know nothing about image and public response. Statistically, auto execs in Japan make approx. 12X the salary of a line worker. In the US that figure is almost 600X!
Re: Re: The Big 3. Bail Em Out Or Not??
Funny!
Bush single handedly created the economic down-turn.
It may have had something to do with deregulation of the lending industry. The gubment wanted everybody to be able to get a loan - don't discriminate just because the person wanting a loan was a minimum wager! So we gave loans to everbody, including those who could not afford it and really did not even understand how the loans worked. Now, do you know who deregulated? YES! Good ol' Billy Clinton. Throw in rediculous gas prices with the housing issue and Viola!
Don't get me wrong, I am no Bush advocate, but, lets be realistic here, he did not cause this mess all by himself.
Another point: Where does the $$ spent on the war go? It goes to soldiers - It goes to equipment and supplies(usually built by Americans) - and some of it goes wastefully to other countries. Point being, most of the $$ spent on a war goes to the pockets of americans who then spend the $$ and put it back into our economy.
Think a little bit
Hayn4R said:
Funny!
Bush single handedly created the economic down-turn.
It may have had something to do with deregulation of the lending industry. The gubment wanted everybody to be able to get a loan - don't discriminate just because the person wanting a loan was a minimum wager! So we gave loans to everbody, including those who could not afford it and really did not even understand how the loans worked. Now, do you know who deregulated? YES! Good ol' Billy Clinton. Throw in rediculous gas prices with the housing issue and Viola!
Don't get me wrong, I am no Bush advocate, but, lets be realistic here, he did not cause this mess all by himself.
Another point: Where does the $$ spent on the war go? It goes to soldiers - It goes to equipment and supplies(usually built by Americans) - and some of it goes wastefully to other countries. Point being, most of the $$ spent on a war goes to the pockets of americans who then spend the $$ and put it back into our economy.
Think a little bit
004Gunner
New member
I really, really, really want them to declare bankruptcy because I think that is the only way they will actually wake up and start producing quality vehicles with relevant innovations. Chrysler is the most pathetic of them all with their brilliant idea to bring back the hemi. IMO Ford is at least attempting to get on the right track and I have the most respect for them among the American auto manufacturers.
Iron Clad Lou
New member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081121/bs_nm/us_gm
another fine example of why they should dig themselves out!
another fine example of why they should dig themselves out!
Uneek
Super Moderator
Iron Clad Lou said:
Their spokes people labeled it as a safety thing. Really, so commercial airline is unsafe? Are their companies better off with them around because their safety is paramount?
No need for bailout, say diners near thriving car plant. Apparently, others in their industry don't think the bailout is necessary.
No bailout, no bridge loan.
Bankruptcy with a restructuring resulting in real change is all that would help improve things.
This has been the course for the big 3 for the past 20 years, giving them a loan that they will burn through in a month without making any changes will not do anything. Trying to blame their current issues on the economy is nonsense.
Chrysler is a perfect example. They were given a loan but now they are right back where they started.
It is the fault of the big 3 and the UAW and no one and no thing else.
Bankruptcy with a restructuring resulting in real change is all that would help improve things.
This has been the course for the big 3 for the past 20 years, giving them a loan that they will burn through in a month without making any changes will not do anything. Trying to blame their current issues on the economy is nonsense.
Chrysler is a perfect example. They were given a loan but now they are right back where they started.
It is the fault of the big 3 and the UAW and no one and no thing else.
Personally, I think the government should let them go bankrupt. They are not selling cars even with the lowest gas prices in years. Granted, people don't have money right now. But, in my mind, I think they should go bankrupt and be forced to restructure, cut costs and worthless platforms, and stream line their business. And while I feel like opinions on here may be biased, b/c most of us drive Toyotas, I feel like the domestic auto makers have just gotten used to pumping out crap and hoping half of it will sell. And if not, at least they'll sell a few trucks. I mean look how often they introduce a 'new' model that lasts a year or two then disappears. Developing these platforms is a waste of money. Look at Toyota and Honda, they introduce solid platforms that last for years.
To me, giving them a bailout just allows them to keep operating at a loss for a few months.
To me, giving them a bailout just allows them to keep operating at a loss for a few months.
Hayn4R
New member
Re: Re: Re: The Big 3. Bail Em Out Or Not??
Yes Bush is the biggest loser and he is responsible for this huge debt. Before you start handing out those "thinking" cards you should heed your own advice....buddy.
If we used the trillion $$$ that has been foolishly used for the war for affordable housing, healthcare, social security, education, etc. than we wouldnt be in this mess. But because there is oil in Iraq and oh...by the way...out president is an oil barron...then why not spend all the money he can to acquire that resource. Even if it is not in the best interest of the country.
We need to think of the future and stop depleting the earths resources. We are only dooming ourselves. But Bush is on his way out so why should he care about anything but lining his own pockets and making sure his post president life is nice and comfy while the rest of America suffers from gov't overspending.
Lets start handling problems in our own backyard before we handle international problems. And what do you know...as a result of all of this foolish spending, our american dollar has the worst value it has ever had in history.
Think a little bit more...
tacundra said:Funny!
Bush single handedly created the economic down-turn.
It may have had something to do with deregulation of the lending industry. The gubment wanted everybody to be able to get a loan - don't discriminate just because the person wanting a loan was a minimum wager! So we gave loans to everbody, including those who could not afford it and really did not even understand how the loans worked. Now, do you know who deregulated? YES! Good ol' Billy Clinton. Throw in rediculous gas prices with the housing issue and Viola!
Don't get me wrong, I am no Bush advocate, but, lets be realistic here, he did not cause this mess all by himself.
Another point: Where does the $$ spent on the war go? It goes to soldiers - It goes to equipment and supplies(usually built by Americans) - and some of it goes wastefully to other countries. Point being, most of the $$ spent on a war goes to the pockets of americans who then spend the $$ and put it back into our economy.
Think a little bit
Yes Bush is the biggest loser and he is responsible for this huge debt. Before you start handing out those "thinking" cards you should heed your own advice....buddy.
If we used the trillion $$$ that has been foolishly used for the war for affordable housing, healthcare, social security, education, etc. than we wouldnt be in this mess. But because there is oil in Iraq and oh...by the way...out president is an oil barron...then why not spend all the money he can to acquire that resource. Even if it is not in the best interest of the country.
We need to think of the future and stop depleting the earths resources. We are only dooming ourselves. But Bush is on his way out so why should he care about anything but lining his own pockets and making sure his post president life is nice and comfy while the rest of America suffers from gov't overspending.
Lets start handling problems in our own backyard before we handle international problems. And what do you know...as a result of all of this foolish spending, our american dollar has the worst value it has ever had in history.
Think a little bit more...
