The Most AMAZING 4X4 Trip Ever!!! PIC AND VIDEO HEAVY

[Matt Starr]

Hint: there are more than a few vehicles between the Rubicon and the 4runner in off-road capability..... Actually, as the terrain gets rougher, the gap between the Rubicon and 4runner widens quite a bit.

BTW, you would rank your 4runner ahead of Hummer H1 in off-road capability???? Wow, that is ambitious!

Rubicon fast? Well, AEV Conversions can put in a Hemi into the Wrangler Rubicon: http://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/jk_wrangler.php

Like i said in a previous post, resale value for a Wrangler is right up there with the best of Toyotas!

For example, using KBB, i optioned out this 2000 Jeep Wrangler Sahara with some goodies (to match the goodies on your Tacoma as much as i can)...same mileage, etc...and this is what i get for private party pricing:

You can give or take a few dollars here and there, but you get my point...the Wranglers hold their value extremely well, on-par if not a little bit better than Toyotas.

Also, remember, the guy who bought the Wrangler in 2000 probably paid LESS than what you paid for your Tacoma...yet, he still matched your sale price.

First of all, as far as offroading goes, I'm refering to completely stock vehicles. And with that said I wouldnt say besides the Rubicon that theres is any other better offroading vehicle than a 4runner with a locker.

As for resale value. MSRP for my Tacoma back in 2000 was $18,938 http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research...433&year=2000&myid=&acode=&mode=&aff=national MSRP for a Jeep Wrangler back in 2000 was $18,725 for a Sport Edition http://www.cars.com/go/compare/addTrims.jsp?acodes=USB00TOT094B0&selected=1&myids=1227
I used NADA cause I KBB has proven to me to be inaccurate some time.

2000 Toyota Tacoma xcab V6 4x4 w/ 195000 miles blue books for $9,850 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars....&y=2000&c=17&vi=15210&z=80228&da=-1&mi=195000

2000 Jeep Wrangler Sport V6 4x4 with 195000 miles blue books for $8,500 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars....3&y=2000&c=18&vi=9341&z=80228&da=-1&mi=195000

Now yes that is a Tacoma and not a 4Runner but I havent made an argument about the 4Runner having better resale than a Wrangler cause as far as thats concerned, I have a copy of the original price sticker that was on my 4runner when it was brand new back in 2000 and it was $34,000. So ya, I'd say the Jeep beats the 4runner there but in my earlier post I didnt say that 195000 miles the Jeep has as good of resale, I said I'd like to see a Jeep reach 195000 with out being rebuilt lol.

The Hummer was really fun to watch but it did have a lot of trouble with traction cause it doesnt have lockers, but the cool thing was, you dont worry about damaging anything in them cause their built to withstand land mines. You could deffinately tell the Hummer wasnt built for rock crawling, it was more built for just rough terrain and not getting damaged easily. It was so cool getting to see one in action though.

 

[Matt Starr]

Im sure there's places to go mudding around here, I've just never found any.

Sloan, you really shouldn't be worried about 4wheeling your runner. Remember I have no lift and pretty much stock size tires. 4Runners are more than capable. You usually should have a spotter when you're rock climbing cause it's just a smart thing to do, but over time you do start to learn how to pick the right path. Even though ric and I are fighting, I've gotta give it to the guy, he is probably the best 4wheeler I've ever seen. He just knows exactly how to tackle an obsticle. From a vehicle stand point, my 4runner has a rear locker and better tires than rics cause he hasnt gotten to em yet and I was having to take some of the easier paths over obsticles then ric would go next and take the most difficult path with little to no problem. It's just experience and learning how to drive offroad but even as good as ric is he still has a spotter, cause even the most experienced driver can make a mistake, so I'll say it again, having a spotter is just a smart thing to do.

Edit: actually nevermind, I just reallized your runner is only 2wd. Ya um be very careful

 

[trd_4runnin]

First of all, as far as offroading goes, I'm refering to completely stock vehicles. And with that said I wouldnt say besides the Rubicon that theres is any other better offroading vehicle than a 4runner with a locker.

As for resale value. MSRP for my Tacoma back in 2000 was $18,938 http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research...433&year=2000&myid=&acode=&mode=&aff=national MSRP for a Jeep Wrangler back in 2000 was $18,725 for a Sport Edition http://www.cars.com/go/compare/addTrims.jsp?acodes=USB00TOT094B0&selected=1&myids=1227
I used NADA cause I KBB has proven to me to be inaccurate some time.

2000 Toyota Tacoma xcab V6 4x4 w/ 195000 miles blue books for $9,850 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars....&y=2000&c=17&vi=15210&z=80228&da=-1&mi=195000

2000 Jeep Wrangler Sport V6 4x4 with 195000 miles blue books for $8,500 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars....3&y=2000&c=18&vi=9341&z=80228&da=-1&mi=195000

Now yes that is a Tacoma and not a 4Runner but I havent made an argument about the 4Runner having better resale than a Wrangler cause as far as thats concerned, I have a copy of the original price sticker that was on my 4runner when it was brand new back in 2000 and it was $34,000. So ya, I'd say the Jeep beats the 4runner there but in my earlier post I didnt say that 195000 miles the Jeep has as good of resale, I said I'd like to see a Jeep reach 195000 with out being rebuilt lol.

The Hummer was really fun to watch but it did have a lot of trouble with traction cause it doesnt have lockers, but the cool thing was, you dont worry about damaging anything in them cause their built to withstand land mines. You could deffinately tell the Hummer wasnt built for rock crawling, it was more built for just rough terrain and not getting damaged easily. It was so cool getting to see one in action though.

What about a 80 series land cruiser? Solid front axle and available front and rear lockers. Thai's G-wagon has a solid front axle and front and rear lockers. Look Matt, I am as loyal to toyota as anyone. I have spent about $1k on my 4Runner in maintenance/repairs over the last year and you still won't hear me say anything other than it's the best vehicle I have ever owned. I think they are great all-around vehicles that don't have much of a downside for the every-day offroader/daily driver but the fact of the matter is when it comes strictly to offroad prowess the 4Runner probably doesn't rank top 5 and that's stock vehicles only.

 

[Thai]

First of all, as far as offroading goes, I'm refering to completely stock vehicles. And with that said I wouldnt say besides the Rubicon that theres is any other better offroading vehicle than a 4runner with a locker.

As for resale value. MSRP for my Tacoma back in 2000 was $18,938 http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research...433&year=2000&myid=&acode=&mode=&aff=national MSRP for a Jeep Wrangler back in 2000 was $18,725 for a Sport Edition http://www.cars.com/go/compare/addTrims.jsp?acodes=USB00TOT094B0&selected=1&myids=1227
I used NADA cause I KBB has proven to me to be inaccurate some time.

but in my earlier post I didnt say that 195000 miles the Jeep has as good of resale, I said I'd like to see a Jeep reach 195000 with out being rebuilt lol.

Yup, i was referring to stock vehicles...i always do unless otherwise specified.

One more minor point...although the MSRP of your Tacoma and Jeep are comparable, you have to remember that you can haggle the Jeep prices down, while the Tacoma (esp. in 2000) probably sold close to MSRP.

You're right...the Jeep reliability is probably not as good as your Tacoma. But, then again, the Wrangler are so simple that there isn't much to break on it...and this is why Wranglers of the past have done fairly well in the reliability department. Hell, most of them do not even have ABS back then! The newer Wranglers are tougher to judge because they have similar electronics to the 4runners.

 

[CO_FlyFisher]

Awesome post, great timing!

I tried... :nono:

I wish I hadn't missed out on Sat. either. What CoFlyFisher...I wasn't enough of a group for you on Sun.

Not so much that, but I wasn't able to go anyway. I don't get out as often as I'd like, and it is usually more fun to go with a group of 5-6 or more. No offense. :

 

[CSL]

Not so much that, but I wasn't able to go anyway. I don't get out as often as I'd like, and it is usually more fun to go with a group of 5-6 or more. No offense.

None taken...I was just razzing you a bit! I think a group of 5 or 6 is perfect too, but as long as I am in the mountains...I am happy.

 

[Matt Starr]

What about a 80 series land cruiser? Solid front axle and available front and rear lockers. Thai's G-wagon has a solid front axle and front and rear lockers. Look Matt, I am as loyal to toyota as anyone. I have spent about $1k on my 4Runner in maintenance/repairs over the last year and you still won't hear me say anything other than it's the best vehicle I have ever owned. I think they are great all-around vehicles that don't have much of a downside for the every-day offroader/daily driver but the fact of the matter is when it comes strictly to offroad prowess the 4Runner probably doesn't rank top 5 and that's stock vehicles only.

I think the difference between the way you guys are judging these vehicles and the way I am is that im taking into consideration the vehicle all around performance. The reason I rank the 4runner so high I because I think it does great offroad but it also has great reliability, it handles great on pavement and it has a comfortable ride. Now I personally cant think of another vehicle that has all of those great qualities but is still as good offroad. Like I said before, I was litterally blown away by the abilities of my 4runner on Saturday but yet my drive home was comfortable and quiet. Thats why I rank the 4runner so high. My ranking is not just by offroad capabilities and the reason why I would rank the Jeep higher is because its so much better offroad.

 

[david_ray320]

I think the difference between the way you guys are judging these vehicles and the way I am is that im taking into consideration the vehicle all around performance. The reason I rank the 4runner so high I because I think it does great offroad but it also has great reliability, it handles great on pavement and it has a comfortable ride. Now I personally cant think of another vehicle that has all of those great qualities but is still as good offroad. Like I said before, I was litterally blown away by the abilities of my 4runner on Saturday but yet my drive home was comfortable and quiet. Thats why I rank the 4runner so high. My ranking is not just by offroad capabilities and the reason why I would rank the Jeep higher is because its so much better offroad.

Additionally the interior is good sized and functional. With ample cargo space in the rear. So if you're looking at the vehicles all around performance, then the 4Runner certainly has more positives than say a Wrangler, with it's limited "cargo space".

But I love 4Runners and Jeeps and appreciate both of them for what they're capable of. I have a Wrangler as well, but it's at our beach house and not my regular driver.

 

[CSL]

Jeeps are the only convertable SUV...thats something they got over t4r's and most everything else. I have a sunroof and I love it. In summer, I can't get enough windows down and fresh air while on the trails.

I agree also with sn0wrunner. Built jeeps are everywhere, and I hardly even turn my head anymore, but a nice built-up T4R is something more unique!

 

[CSL]

Additionally the interior is good sized and functional. With ample cargo space in the rear. So if you're looking at the vehicles all around performance, then the 4Runner certainly has more positives than say a Wrangler, with it's limited "cargo space".

Good point, I would never get three car seats, a dog, a wife and camping gear in a jeep, even the new 4door ones I doubt would do it.

 

[david_ray320]

Jeeps are the only convertable SUV...thats something they got over t4r's and most everything else. I have a sunroof and I love it. In summer, I can't get enough windows down and fresh air while on the trails.

I agree also with sn0wrunner. Built jeeps are everywhere, and I hardly even turn my head anymore, but a nice built-up T4R is something more unique!

Unfortunately, 4Runners are quite commonplace where I go to college. But it just gives me more motivation to do more mods so that I can make mine stand out!

 

[david_ray320]

Good point, I would never get three car seats, a dog, a wife and camping gear in a jeep, even the new 4door ones I doubt would do it.

Yeah like I said our wrangler is at my family's beach house and it's a complicated task trying to fit people plus beach chairs, towels, etc.

 

[Thai]

I think the difference between the way you guys are judging these vehicles and the way I am is that im taking into consideration the vehicle all around performance. The reason I rank the 4runner so high I because I think it does great offroad but it also has great reliability, it handles great on pavement and it has a comfortable ride. Now I personally cant think of another vehicle that has all of those great qualities but is still as good offroad. Like I said before, I was litterally blown away by the abilities of my 4runner on Saturday but yet my drive home was comfortable and quiet. Thats why I rank the 4runner so high. My ranking is not just by offroad capabilities and the reason why I would rank the Jeep higher is because its so much better offroad.

So, you think that a 3rg gen 4runner is better than a G500 on-road?? Or you think that your 4runner is more reliable and durable than my G500?? Hmmm, i used to own a 3rd gen...i would disagree with you on those points...i am happy that you are ecstatic about your 4runner, but lets not get carried away here....

 

[Clemsonfan15]

And how much did that G500 set you back?

 

[Thai]

And how much did that G500 set you back?

Too much....

Matt is just reaching when he compares his 2000 4runner with vehicles in different classes....

 

[Clemsonfan15]

Agreed. We aren't comparing apples to apples. I love my 4runner though.

You could buy a new 4runner and put enough into it to make it more capable than say a G and still be way under what a G costs new.

I guess that's not what ya'll are talking about though, since the 4runner wouldn't be stock.

 

[Thai]

Agreed. We aren't comparing apples to apples. I love my 4runner though.

You could buy a new 4runner and put enough into it to make it more capable than say a G and still be way under what a G costs new.

Well, that is an argument that is not true if you really look at the differences between the two vehicles. It is like a Honda Civic owner bragging about modding his car to beat a Porsche...oh yeah, and what happens when we modify stuff?? Things break, usually the next weak link....

For example, my G has the same footprint (length, width) as a 3rd gen 4runner. Yet, it weighs about 1500 lbs more (same weight as the much bigger Land Cruiser!)...some of that could be due to the V8 engine and the extra solid axle, but a lot of that is due to pure heavy-duty construction. How can you put that in dollar value?? The frame is fully-boxed with big tubes as crossmembers. The tubes are welded through BOTH sides of the frame. My sheetmetal is thicker than any production vehicle made.

Here is a size comparo between G and FJ Cruiser: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=19752

My underbody is super clean...everything is above frame level. How much is it to tuck the 4runner's stuff higher?? My control arms are forged steel, not hollow tubes nor cast steel. And the control arms are attached to the SIDES of the frame (not underneath it)...thus, improving clearance over rocks.

My differential, transfer case, and transmission breather tubes are routed from factory to the highest point under the hood. My alternator is mounted fairly high. My air intake is on the sides. My skidplates actually are pretty thick and double plated.

And we're not even talking about lockers and solid axles. Remember, there is a difference between an axle that is built for a locker and an axle with a locker added afterwards.

Likewise, there is a difference between a civilian version of a military vehicle and a mass production civilian vehicle.

Yeah, you're right...i paid a lot of money for the G. However, is all of it for bling-bling stuff?? I don't think so. The G is expensive mostly because it is built like a bank vault (literally!) with capability that rivals the best in the world...and for over 30 years, it has a long proven history of durability and capability...can you say the same about ANY other vehicle??

BTW, the G-wagen is STILL the same design for the past 30 years. Can you say the same about ANY Toyota vehicle?? How many generations have the Land Cruiser been through in the past 30 years?? I believe that the G-wagen is the LONGEST running car design currently in the world...and as of recently, it will continue to be produced until 2015. (Military contracts require that the G be produced till 2025.) Can you put a price on that?

 

[trd_4runnin]

Well, that is an argument that is not true if you really look at the differences between the two vehicles. It is like a Honda Civic owner bragging about modding his car to beat a Porsche....

For example, my G has the same footprint (length, width) as a 3rd gen 4runner. Yet, it weighs about 1500 lbs more (same weight as the much bigger Land Cruiser!)...some of that could be due to the V8 engine and the extra solid axle, but a lot of that is due to pure heavy-duty construction. How can you put that in dollar value?? The frame is fully-boxed with big tubes as crossmembers. The tubes are welded through BOTH sides of the frame. My sheetmetal is thicker than any production vehicle made.

My underbody is super clean...everything is above frame level. How much is it to tuck the 4runner's stuff higher?? My control arms are forged steel, not hollow tubes nor cast steel.

My differential, transfer case, and transmission breather tubes are routed from factory to the highest point under the hood. My alternator is mounted fairly high. My air intake is on the sides. My skidplates actually are pretty thick and double plated.

And we're not even talking about lockers and solid axles. Remember, there is a difference between an axle that is built for a locker and an axle with a locker added afterwards.

Likewise, there is a difference between a civilian version of a military vehicle and a mass production civilian vehicle.

Yeah, you're right...i paid a lot of money for the G. However, is all of it for bling-bling stuff?? I don't think so. The G is expensive mostly because it is built like a bank vault (literally!) with capability that rivals the best in the world...and for over 30 years, it has a long proven history of durability and capability...can you say the same about ANY other vehicle??

BTW, the G-wagen is STILL the same design for the past 30 years. Can you say the same about ANY Toyota vehicle?? How many generations have the Land Cruiser been through in the past 30 years?? I believe that the G-wagen is the LONGEST running car design currently in the world...and as of recently, it will continue to be produced until 2015. (Military contracts require that the G be produced till 2025.) Can you put a price on that?

Yeah but.... but.... but..... WHY DON'T YOU GO TAKE YOUR STUPID G-WAGEN AND START A STUPID G-WAGEN FORUM WITH ALL YOUR STUPID G-WAGEN FRIENDS.


(Seriously, thanks for all the info I had no idea the G was built such like a tank. It's a privilege to have your knowledge on the boards.

 

[CSL]

Okay, here goes...

WHAT THE HELL IS A G-WAGON??? OR A G500????

I thought it was a luxury SUV by mercedes, but after Thai's last description (freaking awesome sounding by the way) I am totally confused.

Seriously, Thai, start a new thread about this secret military vehicle that dumbo's like me know nothing about, but there better be pictures!! There's GOT to be others as ignorant as I am about this G-string or whatever it is... ha!

Based on the description of it...I think my t4r just wet it's pants and ran to hide in a corner...

 

[trd_4runnin]

Okay, here goes...

WHAT THE HELL IS A G-WAGON??? OR A G500????

I thought it was a luxury SUV by mercedes, but after Thai's last description (freaking awesome sounding by the way) I am totally confused.

Seriously, Thai, start a new thread about this secret military vehicle that dumbo's like me know nothing about, but there better be pictures!! There's GOT to be others as ignorant as I am about this G-string or whatever it is... ha!

Based on the description of it...I think my t4r just wet it's pants and ran to hide in a corner...

You are most likely thinking of the right vehicle, and were just unaware of its true identity. I would imagine there a lot of people rolling around in these things that have no idea what they are driving.

The lowdown: http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercedes-benz-g-class.html