LOL....guess I'm slightly hipocritical...we just bought a volvo...which is owned by ford
Did I just say "let me die"? LOL, of course I meant let "people" die. Damn, better go knock on some wood now...
The REAL STORY??????
- Thread starter inscarguy
- Start date
Did I just say "let me die"? LOL, of course I meant let "people" die. Damn, better go knock on some wood now...
I don't think what Gilbert is saying is wrong, but I don't really see the relevance. Did Toyota claim that an unintended wide open throttle would throw an error code (DTC) in the OBDII system? I don't see how that would ever happen because the throttle itself is designed to function normally from completely closed to wide open. So why would a wide open throttle itself cause an error code? It wouldn't....unless the ECM was programmed to recognize wide open throttle in combination with some other sensor input (like a brake pedal switch, for example) to throw an error code.
Questionable background? What's questionable about his background...that he works out of Southern Illinois University? Einstein failed in elementary school, what does that say about his background?
Question: Did Dr. Jonas Salk develop the vaccine for polio while at the famous Mayo Clinic....the country's top medical school John Hopkins....or The University of Pittsburgh? If it was middle of the road name Pitt (it was), does that mean his work saved any less lives?
Thomas Edison's grade school teacher called him "addled" and complained he asked too many questions. Edison not only didn't work out of a university location, he didn't even attend college at all. Somehow I don't think you'll hold that against him when you turn on your lights.
No offense to anyone's opinion, but history tells us a person's job location may be a poor indicator regarding the quality of their work. After all you've got to know that Toyota can hire the very best people from some of the most famous schools in world, but it didn't prevent this problem from occuring in the first place. So why does the guy who may have discovered the heart of the issue have to be from Harvard or MIT?
Wow, you totally missed my meaning. It has nothing to do with his education.
Anyone who is known to be an expert witness for plaintiff lawyers has a questionable background, in my opinion. It has nothing to do with his knowledge or expertise, and more to do with his motives to get his mug on a nationally syndicated news show. I'm sure that will do well for his career and give him more exposure, which will lead to more calls from the lawyers. It's all about his motives....maybe he's just trying to look out for the general public and maybe he's got other motives instead. Either way, ABC news wasn't responsible enough to get both sides of the story here...and I think that in itself is irresponsible journalism. But of course it gets ratings though...right?
simple
Senior Member
I agree this is an electrical issue. I agree that Toyota has been covering this up, and this mistake totally has flushed their good reputation down the toilet with consumers. Toyota could have won big, if they handled this as soon as they knew there was an issue, but they might not have gotten the media exposure. But thats a hell of a lot better than they are getting now.
My GF told me she saw people protesting to get toyota's off the road in CA. I'm willing to bet that more people have died in lightning strikes this and last year than have died by this issue in 2009, and 2010. Those people are morons IMO. Still Toyota is going to have a couple bad years before things start turning up for them.
My GF told me she saw people protesting to get toyota's off the road in CA. I'm willing to bet that more people have died in lightning strikes this and last year than have died by this issue in 2009, and 2010. Those people are morons IMO. Still Toyota is going to have a couple bad years before things start turning up for them.
Might be a good time to buy a new Toyota....some awesome deals might be surfacing in the near future.
OK I see your point about questioning a plantiff's witness. Moreover you were quoting someone who questioned his place of employment. Now as far as concern about getting both sides of the story; are we holding Toyota to the same standard?
If so then we should compare this ABC story to Toyota paying an engineering a huge amount of money to supposedly test their cars. Then after it was finished Toyota came out with full page ads all over the country trumpting the tests as conclusive their cars were safe, and the public had nothing to worry.
They left out a couple of things in the ads:
1. The engineering firm never even inspected a single car that was reported to Toyota as having unintended acceleration
2. This same company was hired by the tobacco firms when states were suing them for public tobacco costs. Their brilliant "work" concluded second hand smoke did NOT cause cancer...I kid you not.
Somehow I'm not seeing that as Toyota getting out any side of the story except the one they bought and paid for.
charlier180
New member
If the following article is to be believed, Toyota is installing the brake override feature in vehicles as far back as >>2005<< as well current and future vehicles. Some Toyota Technicians that have been doing the pedal recall have posted on other forums that they were updating the vehicle's software with the brake override feature. If this in indeed the case, then this opens up a whole other set of questions for Toyota to answer.
Toyota to add brake override systems to more vehicles | detnews.com | The Detroit News
If this gentleman's findings prove to be correct Toyota will no doubt take another hit. At this point Toyota, the NHTSA and possibly some independent company/agency need to examine this gentleman's findings and determine if they have merit. Then Toyota, the US Government and Toyota owners can go from there.
Believe me, I don't think for a minute that Toyota is innocent in this whole mess. Like I said, if it is true that they knowingly put off recalling these problem vehicles in an effort to save money, then I truly hope they get everything coming to them. That's just about as unethical as a company can get. On the other hand, if they were just slow to react to this mess and there isn't any underlying intent, then I think they deserve a chance to turn this whole mess around and start doing the right thing. To me, there's a huge difference if Toyota intended to put people's lives in danger by trying to save a buck on recalls. That's complete BS and it will be very sad if that turns out to be true.
Thai
Elite Member
So, some have speculated that you can simply push the brake pedal and bring a fully-accelerated Toyota to a stop...i guess that this may not be the case.
So, some have speculated that you can simply push the brake pedal and bring a fully-accelerated Toyota to a stop...i guess that this may not be the case.
Yes, because Car and Driver or Road and Track said so. Oh yeah, and that one guy that tested a brand new car off the dealer lot.
The other thing to keep in mind is that most manufacturers that use electronic throttles have a failsafe that shuts down the throttle when you press the brake. Toyota does not. Those other manufacturers have significantly lower incident rates of unintended acceleration.
Toyota is now saying that they are introducing that failsafe in their new cars. But they also say that the only causes are the pedal entrapment and CTS pedal assemblies. About the only way I could describe Toyota's statements in this regard is to call them a prevarication. And that's being polite.
inscarguy
Member
the woman at the congressional hearings is a little questionable. she states her lexus suddenly accelerated on her. It was my understanding that none if the Lexus vehicles were recalled.
2- she stated that when the vehicle was accelerating uncontrolably so she called her husband on the bluetooth phone system. why was'nt she trying to control the vehicle, shut it off, throw it in neutral, instead she was calling someone.....
the "witnesses" seem a little uncreditable.
2- she stated that when the vehicle was accelerating uncontrolably so she called her husband on the bluetooth phone system. why was'nt she trying to control the vehicle, shut it off, throw it in neutral, instead she was calling someone.....
the "witnesses" seem a little uncreditable.
charlier180
New member
So, some have speculated that you can simply push the brake pedal and bring a fully-accelerated Toyota to a stop...i guess that this may not be the case.
The testimony of the Lexus owner before Congress today supports that speculation. She testified that she had BOTH FEET on the brake pedal and it did not slow her vehicle. IMHO a MUCH LARGER concern for me was that she also testified that she shifted into every setting on the transmission including NEUTRAL and REVERSE and that had NO EFFECT either. Some would say that it would appear to point to electronics as the source for the unintended acceleration of her Lexus.
Sorry, but I'm not following. Are you implying that because Lexus' weren't recalled, she couldn't have had a problem? At one point no Toyota was recalled either. Are you sure you want to make that arguement?
It's also difficult to follow your logic that she's shouldn't have tried to call her husband by using her Blue Tooth. She testified she had both feet on the brakes and was trying to get the transmission into neutral didn't she? It wasn't like she ignored everything else going on to make a phone call. Is anyone here able to talk and brake at the same time?
Let me make a suggestion. We seem to have a lot of....well, for lack of a better description let's call it back seat drivers. Certainly there are some people on this board who could negotiate a very difficult off road trail. However the same drivers might make you think you were going to be in a roll over on a short track with tight corners. On a Porsche board we'd probably find people who could go around those same corners like butter, but couldn't go over a set of speed bump without bottoming out. In short every driver is different, and every driving experience finds different levels of traffic and road conditions.
Just a suggestion, but maybe instead of following Toyota's original lead and blaming individual drivers for a design problem...perhaps we should realize it's a lot easier sitting at a non moving computer saying what we would do.
Autoblog has a good article that explains why Dr. Gilbert's opinions should be viewed with some skepticism: Analysis: ABC News report shouldn't panic Toyota drivers — Autoblog
Question; it seems some auto publication have questioned the ABC report. Does anyone know if any of these auto magazines or blogs have also questioned Toyota declaring their cars are safe based on a report which they paid for...and was written by a company with a very questionable reutation.
Yeah, back when Audi was going through the same unintended acceleration debacle, there were tons of people who said they had both feet on the brake pedal and the car just kept accelerating. The only difference between now and then is that nobody ever found a single fault with any of the Audi vehicles that were supposed to have unintended acceleration. Not one. So my point here is that some random lady making such a claim with her Lexus could be the same thing that happened with Audi. She probably confused the brake pedal with the gas pedal. Either that, or she's just completely full of crap. If what she says is true, then not only would the brakes have to fail, but also the gear selector for the transmission. Basically, the vehicle would have to have a complete electrical meltdown. So of course I think people like that are full of crap, but again, that's just my opinion and others are free to agree or disagree.
I don't know, but did you read the Car and Driver article? They are a very reputable magazine, probably the best selling mainstream car mag in the country. The article seemed very unbiased and truthful. It is the only actual test that I've read thus far that I believe is completely honest. I've actually done my own tests to see if I could stop two of our company cars under full throttle (from admittedly lower speeds) and both cars had absolutely no problem whatsoever overpowering their engines and stopping the car. So my own unscientific test supports Car and Driver's findings.
Thai
Elite Member
Classic fanboy denial. :barf:
When Car & Driver rates the 4runner low in a comparo several years back, many members here (and afar) claim that C&D is just full of crap and being paid by GM/BMW/etc.. When C&D gave the 1st place trophy to BMW, Lexus owners claim that BMW paid the bills at C&D.
BUT, when C&D does a test to defend Toyota, then C&D is the most "reputable, unbias, and truthful" magazine on the planet!
I don't what to believe anymore.... :infidel:
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