The rear end delema

[funnymeatball]

So ive finally upsized to 35s, and some heavy ones at that. not, but a couple weeks later did I start feeling some odd vibrations while driving. I've pretty much determined that its time to regear.

My problem, Im pretty sure I want to gear to 5.29s. (any reccommendations on brand?)

I have no idea on the lifespand of my rear end. some serious backlash when i shift into drive, and some occasional squeaking/ chirping when im driving with heavy vibrations when i accelerate.

If I just regear, im afraid ill get everything apart and find out that i need new bearings, seals, and who knows what.

If i get a new third and regear that, It will cost roughly 600 and Ill have new gears, but at that point, Id almost just get an e locker third 4.3 and regear some time down the road.

Im 2wd for now, which is why i want a locker, but I plan on doing an SAS when I finish school.

What would you guys do? Id love to stay around 500 and Id be doing everything myself. trying to think about the future as well

 

[t4r4life]

you can always go back to 33s, lets be honest, you are 2wd, you are not going anywhere that needs 35s. why not enjoy the good MPG, take it easy on the truck till you do the SAC.

 

[BlazeRunner]

What made you determine its time to regear? Vibrations??
I agree with t4r4life, I would just take it easy until you start hitting it hard with the SAS...
Some of the issues you are mentioning have to do with driveshaft and u-joints, so I would look into making things work with what you have.

 

[liftedbrigade]

So ive finally upsized to 35s, and some heavy ones at that. not, but a couple weeks later did I start feeling some odd vibrations while driving. I've pretty much determined that its time to regear.

My problem, Im pretty sure I want to gear to 5.29s. (any reccommendations on brand?)

I have no idea on the lifespand of my rear end. some serious backlash when i shift into drive, and some occasional squeaking/ chirping when im driving with heavy vibrations when i accelerate.

If I just regear, im afraid ill get everything apart and find out that i need new bearings, seals, and who knows what.

If i get a new third and regear that, It will cost roughly 600 and Ill have new gears, but at that point, Id almost just get an e locker third 4.3 and regear some time down the road.

Im 2wd for now, which is why i want a locker, but I plan on doing an SAS when I finish school.

What would you guys do? Id love to stay around 500 and Id be doing everything myself. trying to think about the future as well

Yukon gears are great for the price. 5.29 is pretty high though, any reason you chose that over 4.88?

Yeah, im 2wd on 35's and my rear end shakes when Im going 10-30. Clears up past that. My alignment is off pretty bad after last weekend so I think that'll help with alot of the noise. Where exactly is your vibration coming from? Does it sitll happen while in neutral?

I've seen the e-locker, 4.88 rear sell for 650 on a website, I'll check my history to see if I can find it. they charge a 450 core fee though.

I may be wrong, but I don't think your gear ratio would have anything to do with the vibration though. I know my U-Joint is causing all the racket.

 

[JWaldz]

If you're going to regear you'll want new carrier and pinion bearings anyways so a master install kit would be in order. They typically run around $250. Then the gears depending what brand you get can be another $225. I prefer Nitro or Yukon.

The problem, however, doesn't sound like a re-gear issue as much as it does that you're experiencing either some tire unbalancing, u-joints going out, pinion bearing going out, and maybe even some worn out front steering components. Keep in mind the 35's can add a lot of stress to already worn parts. Ball joints, tie rods, steering rack, etc etc..

First off, what kind of "odd vibrations" are you having? Front end, rear end? Any noises like grinding, popping, chattering or anything? When was your last alignment? At what speeds do the vibrations start and stop? Do the brakes have any affect.. Go away with brakes, get worse with brakes? What kind of weights are you using to balance your tires and how are they aligned around the tire? It could be a coincidence that it just so happened to start with the 35's but I'm guessing it's a balancing issue or the added size and weight is putting more load on an already stressed component that wasn't too noticeable before.

 

[funnymeatball]

If you're going to regear you'll want new carrier and pinion bearings anyways so a master install kit would be in order. They typically run around $250. Then the gears depending what brand you get can be another $225. I prefer Nitro or Yukon.

The problem, however, doesn't sound like a re-gear issue as much as it does that you're experiencing either some tire unbalancing, u-joints going out, pinion bearing going out, and maybe even some worn out front steering components. Keep in mind the 35's can add a lot of stress to already worn parts. Ball joints, tie rods, steering rack, etc etc..

First off, what kind of "odd vibrations" are you having? Front end, rear end? Any noises like grinding, popping, chattering or anything? When was your last alignment? At what speeds do the vibrations start and stop? Do the brakes have any affect.. Go away with brakes, get worse with brakes? What kind of weights are you using to balance your tires and how are they aligned around the tire? It could be a coincidence that it just so happened to start with the 35's but I'm guessing it's a balancing issue or the added size and weight is putting more load on an already stressed component that wasn't too noticeable before.

Grizzly gears are great for the price. 5.29 is pretty high though, any reason you chose that over 4.88?

Yeah, im 2wd on 35's and my rear end shakes when Im going 10-30. Clears up past that. My alignment is off pretty bad after last weekend so I think that'll help with alot of the noise. Where exactly is your vibration coming from? Does it sitll happen while in neutral?

I've seen the e-locker, 4.88 rear sell for 650 on a website, I'll check my history to see if I can find it. they charge a 450 core fee though.

I may be wrong, but I don't think your gear ratio would have anything to do with the vibration though. I know my U-Joint is causing all the racket.

Well they started about a week after I got the tires. Not saying that they arent out of balance, but they were pretty smooth riding for that first week and still are for the most part.

Jacked the truck up and checked the wiggle on the the tires (balljoint check) and theres no play.

Not saying its the 4.10 gear ratio thats causing it, but I want a higher ratio to get my acceleration/gas mileage back and reduce transmission stress. I dont think its the transmission because ive got this vibration through all tje gears and it still shifts smooth.

Why I say its the rear end: backlash is bad when I shift from reverse to drive, or coast in neutral then shift into drive, theres a heavy clunk. Sometimes worse than others.

Ever so often I get chirping at low speeds from the rear end, had my buddy drive slow and I ran with the truck to hear where it was.

Slow speeds the vibration is bad, its really any time my foot is on the pedal that its vibrating (gears not meshing right?) But when I let off the gas its smooth as it should be, in all speeds (tires and steering good?) I talked to a few people about gears and they all agree that I need a 5.something gear if I go 35 from the 4.10 with 31 stock.

This 4runner has 160k miles on it so I figured its bound to happen.

 

[nevada]

fix the vibration issue first.
regearing it isn't going to fix that.

how did you lift it to get the 35's to fit?

it sounds like you're having a driveline issue. the pinion angle is wrong.
and possible bad u-joints. maybe even DUE to the poor pinion angle.

 

[02SE]

fix the vibration issue first.
regearing it isn't going to fix that.

how did you lift it to get the 35's to fit?

it sounds like you're having a driveline issue. the pinion angle is wrong.
and possible bad u-joints. maybe even DUE to the poor pinion angle.

This.

Additionally, I'd bet you didn't lengthen the driveshaft when you installed the lift, so the slip yoke is likely backed too far out of the transmission, so it isn't sufficiently supported by the the output shaft bushing. So instead of spinning smoothly with no wobble, it likely is wobbling and wearing the slip yoke, output shaft, and bushing excessively.

 

[JWaldz]

2wd driveshafts are one piece.

 

[nevada]

2wd driveshafts are one piece.

there is still a slip in there somewhere.

 

[the great him]

do you hear a growling sound or have a vibration/sound that increases in direct correlation with speed -not RMPS, but, speed of vehicle?

when was the last time you greased the drive line?

did you seperate the drive line at any point recently? -remove the slip joint/yoke?

have you tightened the output nut on the end of the trans? -these can work lose over time causing the symptoms you are describing...

have you had the trans serviced recently? have you checked trans fluid level and cleanliness?

do you have a trans cooler? if not id sugest you either dump the 35s, or install one ASAP, as that big of a tire on a 3.90 rear end will burn up a trans fast. and could cause an already weak trans to fail quickly -hard shifts in and out of gear ect.

-you can not feel "backlash"... if you do your backlash would be so bad you would blow the rear end fast. like with in a few hundred miles, and that sort of thing does not just happen over night. again do you hear a constant growl or roar in the rear end that correlates to the speed of the vehicle?

imo you either have a drive line issue or a trans issue

and id only regear to 4.88 if i was you...

 

[liftedbrigade]

Well they started about a week after I got the tires. Not saying that they arent out of balance, but they were pretty smooth riding for that first week and still are for the most part.

Jacked the truck up and checked the wiggle on the the tires (balljoint check) and theres no play.

Not saying its the 4.10 gear ratio thats causing it, but I want a higher ratio to get my acceleration/gas mileage back and reduce transmission stress. I dont think its the transmission because ive got this vibration through all tje gears and it still shifts smooth.

Why I say its the rear end: backlash is bad when I shift from reverse to drive, or coast in neutral then shift into drive, theres a heavy clunk. Sometimes worse than others.

Ever so often I get chirping at low speeds from the rear end, had my buddy drive slow and I ran with the truck to hear where it was.

Slow speeds the vibration is bad, its really any time my foot is on the pedal that its vibrating (gears not meshing right?) But when I let off the gas its smooth as it should be, in all speeds (tires and steering good?) I talked to a few people about gears and they all agree that I need a 5.something gear if I go 35 from the 4.10 with 31 stock.

This 4runner has 160k miles on it so I figured its bound to happen.

The shifting clunk sounds like joints to me. Does it happen when you shift into park, drive, ect?

I have 35's and everyone recommended me going to 4.88. Just wondering why they're recommending so high?

 

[02SE]

2wd driveshafts are one piece.

Yes, they are. That's why I specifically said slip yoke, transmission output shaft bushing, etc.

Now if I had said slip-joint, and double-cardon joint like a 4wd driveshaft's have, that would be different.

 

[funnymeatball]

So this forum has been doing some weird things and now everything ive posted is gone, but I think the reason they reccomended 5.29 is because we thought it was a 4.10 rear end right now. As for the lift installation, just lifted it up and swapped out the springs and shocks. Lc lift.
It only really shifts hard from reverse to drive or park to drive. Transmission fluids are all good, but I might be due for a tranny cooler soon. The reason I want to regear as a result of this is because I figured id be rebuilding the rear end anyway, I may as well put new gears in while its apart.

 

[funnymeatball]

This.

Additionally, I'd bet you didn't lengthen the driveshaft when you installed the lift, so the slip yoke is likely backed too far out of the transmission, so it isn't sufficiently supported by the the output shaft bushing. So instead of spinning smoothly with no wobble, it likely is wobbling and wearing the slip yoke, output shaft, and bushing excessively.

Unless its just something thats gotten worse over time, ive had the lift almost a year now and there were no issues till the 35s went on. The only onyher thing ive done is a 2" body lift. Thoughts on fixing the angles?

 

[funnymeatball]

And while im at it, I know I dont have to worry about cv angles, so would another 2" up front for a total 4.5" be workable? I really want to just to the tacoma ifs lift but I cant find one thats not gonna be cheaper than SAC

 

[Brian757]

I could almost put money on the u-joints, or his wheels aren't properly balanced/aligned.

Either one, regearing isn't going to alleviate it.

 

[02SE]

Unless its just something thats gotten worse over time, ive had the lift almost a year now and there were no issues till the 35s went on. The only onyher thing ive done is a 2" body lift. Thoughts on fixing the angles?

It could be progressively getting worse, and the added strain of turning those new taller, heavier tires has made it more noticeable. I've seen quite a few lifted trucks, mostly domestic makes, (but your 2wd has a similar driveshaft design) wherein the slip-yoke had backed too far out of the transmission or T-case, because of a suspension lift, and the driveshaft not being lengthened an appropriate amount.

What happens then is that the slip-yoke no longer has adequate support from the output bushing, and starts to wobble instead of just spin. This causes accelerated wear on the outside of the slip-yoke that rides in the output bushing, the output bushing itself, the splines inside the slip-yoke, and the splines of the output shaft.

I'd find a competent driveline shop and have them check the angles of the transmission output, and the pinion flange input. Also have them check the u-joints, determine if the driveshaft is too short for your lift, and check the slip-yoke, output bushing, and output shaft for excessive wear.

Also keep in mind that even if the angles of the transmission output and pinion flange are compatible, the angle the u-joints are now operating at could be near their smooth operation limit, and causing a vibration just for that reason alone. If that's the case, a CV (double-cardon) joint could be installed in the driveshaft, to restore smooth running. But that's also something a competent driveline shop has to determine.

 

[funnymeatball]

Thanks for all the great tips guys! It was the front U joints. one of the bearing couplings shattered and the cross was bent to hell. got the part from the toyota dealership and replaced it this evening. The mechanic i talked to was pretty cool, drives a 4runner himself. he was wondering how it was still driveable. lol whoops.. so that fixed everything. pain in the A!! to get the joint apart.

so now, do i go 4.88 or 5.29? i guess the 5.29 would make more sense going from 4.10 stock, but if my rear end is a 3.70something then probably the 4.88 would be best.

any input on elocker, or aussie? i like the elocker because this truck is my dd, but its nice to have if i ever do go exploring. or should i just wait till i do my SAC and build everything then? I just figured if im regearing the diff, i may as well do any other project involving the diff.

 

[t4r4life]

Thanks for all the great tips guys! It was the front U joints. one of the bearing couplings shattered and the cross was bent to hell. got the part from the toyota dealership and replaced it this evening. The mechanic i talked to was pretty cool, drives a 4runner himself. he was wondering how it was still driveable. lol whoops.. so that fixed everything. pain in the A!! to get the joint apart.

so now, do i go 4.88 or 5.29? i guess the 5.29 would make more sense going from 4.10 stock, but if my rear end is a 3.70something then probably the 4.88 would be best.

any input on elocker, or aussie? i like the elocker because this truck is my dd, but its nice to have if i ever do go exploring. or should i just wait till i do my SAC and build everything then? I just figured if im regearing the diff, i may as well do any other project involving the diff.

If you do decide to stick with 35s, the gear to go with would be 4.88 with a auto 4 speed. on the freeway 65mph will be around 2200rpm, pretty close to stock, 5.29 would be too high if you DD a lot. and when do you do the SAS you can put in a dual transfer and the final crawl ratio would still be plenty.

As far as locker goes, E locker is nice but it's a PITA to retrofit. it'd be easier to just buy a whole axle assembly, or go with the air locker. i'd stay away from auto lockers, just because the constant locks and unlocking when you take corners.