The Weight Debate

[MojaveMadMan]

IMO:

But the #1 weight killer is oversized tires. A single 35" tire can be a challenge for one man to mount, move around and otherwise handle. Consider that that is the single piece of equipment that is 1) unsprung weight, affecting the performance of the suspension 2) rotating mass, effecting acceleration, braking and changing direction 3) well, you've got 4 or 5 of them, so yeah, it kinda adds up.

Ya tires are always a killer in the weight department, but they are one of the neccesary evils. I wouldn't want to skimp on tires, I want a 33" minimum, and I want an E range so I get the stronger side walls and all that for the rocks. Ya they are heavy, but they are your only contact between the rig and the trail, they gotta be right!!!

the 80 series is hands down better then the 100 or 4runner for mid travel. I've had the 80 and 3rd Gen. Neither compare to my fully built trucks I use to own coilovers, bypass, hydro bumps at each corner, full cage and linked, but that's a whole different ball game. But the 80 handled really good out at Barstow. I wanted to put a better shock on it and bump stops but didn't keep it long enough to do so.

I'm on the fence about selling the 4Runner, because after dumping $4,000 into suspension I know it still wont be what I want. I just like this forum to much to sell it haha

What is your suspension set up on your 4runner? I know I am wanting to run nothing less that 2.5" remotes on all four corners. Coilovers in the front obviously, and I would love to get hydro's one all four as well. I learned with my Bronco that those things are worth their weight in gold out there!!!

 

[zooroadbaja]

What is your suspension set up on your 4runner? I know I am wanting to run nothing less that 2.5" remotes on all four corners. Coilovers in the front obviously, and I would love to get hydro's one all four as well. I learned with my Bronco that those things are worth their weight in gold out there!!!

Just a mix of OME and SS. I want to either try the bolt in Coliovers, or do the Total Chaos kit. But for the money I'm going to spend on that I could have a really capable pre 94 Ford Explorer.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

Just a mix of OME and SS. I want to either try the bolt in Coliovers, or do the Total Chaos kit. But for the money I'm going to spend on that I could have a really capable pre 94 Ford Explorer.

You can't beat the reliability of a Toyota Vs. Explorer, but an explorer with D44 beams, coilovers, a full size 8.8 and springs/2.5's would be fun in Baja. But for that kind of setup, you would be neck and neck with a chaos kit and some 2.5's all around... Both would be tempting...

 

[zooroadbaja]

You can't beat the reliability of a Toyota Vs. Explorer, but an explorer with D44 beams, coilovers, a full size 8.8 and springs/2.5's would be fun in Baja. But for that kind of setup, you would be neck and neck with a chaos kit and some 2.5's all around... Both would be tempting...

The down side to the Toyota is the steering. The steering on the Toyotas just can't hold up for serious offroad. Unless it's a pickup or gen 1 and 2 4Runners. I've seen way to many broken racks on gen 1 Tacomas.

Being stuck 100 miles from town in Baja sucks. Trust me I've been there first hand:

But to get back on topic, with sliders, bumpers, jerry cans filled, roof rack, rooftop tent, awning, storage platform, and gear. It was weighed down pretty good. But the Runner felt the same. I did do the Tundra upgrade which helped a lot. But with this setup I was averaging mid 13's to mid 15's depending what kind of driving I was doing. With all that weight, it still feels faster then my single cab 22re pick up haha

 

[Kurtis]

Why the big deal about weight and MPG? Honestly, you aren't going to find an offroad capable SUV that gets better gas mileage than a 3rd Generation 4Runner.

 

[GhostRing]

in the US market anyway...

 

[Kurtis]

The down side to the Toyota is the steering. The steering on the Toyotas just can't hold up for serious offroad. Unless it's a pickup or gen 1 and 2 4Runners. I've seen way to many broken racks on gen 1 Tacomas.

Being stuck 100 miles from town in Baja sucks. Trust me I've been there first hand:

But to get back on topic, with sliders, bumpers, jerry cans filled, roof rack, rooftop tent, awning, storage platform, and gear. It was weighed down pretty good. But the Runner felt the same. I did do the Tundra upgrade which helped a lot. But with this setup I was averaging mid 13's to mid 15's depending what kind of driving I was doing. With all that weight, it still feels faster then my single cab 22re pick up haha

We need a company that will make bomb proof steering racks. You can beef up the rest of the IFS pretty well.

 

[zooroadbaja]

We need a company that will make bomb proof steering racks. You can beef up the rest of the IFS pretty well.

Yeah, my buddy that raced on one built a bracket that came off the rack it held a 1.5" solid piece of chromoly that slid through bushings. but it basically kept the rack from pushing in on each other and stiffened it up a lot. After breaking 3 racks he never broke one again. I wouldn't recommend it for dd use. The steering would sort of stick, so the truck wandered on the road, so you were constantly correcting it. But in the dirt you didn't notice it.

 

[shmabs]

MPG and Weight

A lot of good points have been brought up here, I will throw in my 2 cents.

While I would love to not care about mpg, I do, and that will never change. It's not that I expect my runner to average 25mpg, its more of trying to strike a balance. Our vehicles are cursed with a small gas tank, and when your mpg starts dropping, you run into a shortened range. I think this is what bothers me more than anything. After having owned and wheeled a pretty light rig (geo tracker) I am a firm believer in the virtues of a lightweight vehicle.

For that reason, I have kept my tire size small (265/75/16) I swapped to lower gears (4.30's vs the 3.92's that came in my truck) and for now have only sliders, a t-case skid, and a small Co2 rack that occupies the cargo area, and of course I do my best to keep up of vehicle maintenance.

For my personal use, which is a lot of pavement, anything more than what I have simply isn't a necessity right now. Many of the big weight items would fall under the "want" category, vs the "need" category. And I think that's what gets a lot of people; they bolt/weld on a lot of awesome equipment, that no doubt looks good and performs well, but is rarely used. I have a hard time paying the weight and mpg penalty of front and rear plate bumpers, a full length roof rack, 35's etc...when my reality is that I will only use all of those things to their capacity less than 1% of the time. When I'm planning mods, cost and weight are two very big considerations for me.

I have to laugh at myself right now though, as a front and trans skid are both in the works, as I have a trail run coming up that I feel they might get used.

When it comes to skids, I'm a firm believer in lighter weight materials, combined with proper mounting and bracing can go a long way. When fabbing them I often choose 1/8th and brace or stiffen it vs 3/16 or 1/4. They have worked well in the past.

Having certain things removable is a big plus in my mind. I generally build my skids to be easily removable with one a ratchet and socket from the bottom, if/when I build a rear bumper the swing-away arm will be easily removable. Being able to shed weight for your daily commute might not be the most convenient thing to do, but if you are only "wheeling" once or twice a month and daily driving it 5-7 days a week, it might be nice.

One the flip side of that, I tried having two sets of wheels and tires for a while. For many reasons that just wasn't working out. When I have more space, I might revisit the idea.

Just some random thoughts...

Mike

 

[89s rule]

If you're not concerned about mpg, then get a 80 series. I miss mine. The only reason I sold it was because 10mpg sucked. So I bought the T4R. Trucks were built the same. Bumpers front and rear, sliders, racks, 285s, and so on. Now I'm averaging 15.8mpg that's more street driving then freeway. Plus you know freeways in CA are more like parking lots.

We old our 80 series just after we got our 3rd gen. Had a fj62 before it that had 33's and 4.88s it got 10mpg everywhere didn't matter how you drove it.
FZJ80 got 12-13mpg had 33s and sliders. 4runner gets ~15-17 but has skinny 34s, front and rear bumpers and 3rd row.
What disappoints me most about our 3rd gen is the size of the tank, it sucks to get 225 miles to a full tank of gas. Especially when I get 400 miles out of my T100, although it is almost completely stock.