rkntoy
New member
Especially after he got to drive mine and see how my setup sounds. It is cheaper to grow old and start losing your hearing.
theesotericone's Trails and BS Thread
- Thread starter theesotericone
- Start date
Especially after he got to drive mine and see how my setup sounds. It is cheaper to grow old and start losing your hearing.
theesotericone
New member
theesotericone
New member
Paging [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION]
Hey man. Did you ever fix the issue you had with your Kings rotating in the rear?
I just spent a few minutes removing my old rear shocks. Then I cleaned all the dirt and debris from the upper shock bucket. When feeling around in there trying to loosen up all the old dirt I noticed that the bucket has a small protrusion facing up. It's 1/8" thick and maybe 3/16" high.
I believe it's purpose is to lock the upper rubber shock grommet in place. Finding this lead me to have a few thoughts that I wanted to ask you.
Did you use any anti-seize in your install?
Did you crank the upper shock bolt really, really tight?
My thought is since that protrusion is there we need to crank the upper shock bolt super tight. Effectively squeezing the bushings hard enough that it prevents any rotation. As much as past experience tells me to use anti-seize in these situations logic is telling me not to.
Thoughts?
Hey man. Did you ever fix the issue you had with your Kings rotating in the rear?
I just spent a few minutes removing my old rear shocks. Then I cleaned all the dirt and debris from the upper shock bucket. When feeling around in there trying to loosen up all the old dirt I noticed that the bucket has a small protrusion facing up. It's 1/8" thick and maybe 3/16" high.
I believe it's purpose is to lock the upper rubber shock grommet in place. Finding this lead me to have a few thoughts that I wanted to ask you.
Did you use any anti-seize in your install?
Did you crank the upper shock bolt really, really tight?
My thought is since that protrusion is there we need to crank the upper shock bolt super tight. Effectively squeezing the bushings hard enough that it prevents any rotation. As much as past experience tells me to use anti-seize in these situations logic is telling me not to.
Thoughts?
Unner
New member
Glad you got your stuff in on time!
As far as the rotation I haven't completely solved it, but it's at a point for me where it's not that big of a deal. I check it occasionally when I work on the truck and they don't really move much driving around in the city or staying on pavement. If you run a trail or dirt roads fast and hard they'll move, but you could probably get away with just checking them at the end of the trail, or maybe halfway through or so. To rotate them back is easy. Grab the shock body and turn it.
I did not use antiseize on the top mounting hardware. On the bottom where it mounts to the axle I did use antiseize. I had a little corrosion/road grime build up on the stems and the heims that go over them are a perfect fit so I had to sand them and clean them up. That's the only place I used it.
My upper shock bolts are very very tight. I'm afraid to tighten them more because I don't want to strip the threads. That would make for a really bad day...
I think the problem has to do with the sleeve that goes through the bushings at the top and the mounting hole. If I recall correctly, and maybe you can verify, the sleeve has a plastic outer, and metal inner portion and the sleeve is also exactly as long as the two bushings are stacked on top of each other. So when you slide the sleeve through the two bushings it sits flush on both ends. This sounds great, but the bushings are supposed to compress when you tighten the shock. That sleeve doesn't let the bushings compress as they should because it's just as long as the bushings.
So you have:
^ nut
----- washer
=I= bushing with sleeve
--I-- frame mount with sleeve
=I= bushing with sleeve
----- shock body
The sleeve is bottoming out on the washer and shock body before any real compression of the bushings can take place.
I think if you cut that sleeve down maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch you'd be able to get some compression on those bushings which would help keep the shock from rotating. Right now cranking down on the top shock nut just puts all the extra load on that sleeve without doing much to the bushings. If the sleeve is shorter the load can go into the bushings. At least those are my thoughts on it. I'd like to try it, but I don't want to cut up my parts and find out it doesn't work haha
I know [MENTION=107971]derpiful[/MENTION] had the rotation issue with his new ones too and he found a place to zip tie the resi too on the frame I think to keep it from rotating any farther, kinda like a limit strap to hold it in place. I might try and do this with some of those super heavy duty 3 foot long 200 pound strength zip ties they sell at home depot.
Let me know how yours goes.
96RedRunner
Senior Member
During the dual case install did you have to disconnect any grounding wires?
Auto's use a somewhat floating grounding circuit, a less than perfect ground
will effect the most sensitive too electrical noise equipment.
Thanks for showing the HU make/model along with how it performs.
Been looking for a different HU can't get 526 any longer, so I ordered the 527
next year's model since you said your a budget audiophile.
theesotericone
New member
Thanks for that' I'll take a closer look at the actual top mount before they go in. The only issue I see in shortening the sleeve and compressing the bushings more would be the bushings failing sooner.
I didn't touch any grounds putting in the cases and that was the first thing I checked after pulling to stereo out. All the old grounds where still in great shape. A lot of times the ground shielding for the RCA's comes loose inside the case. The old school trick to re-ground them is to wrap some 14 gauge wire around the RCA ground on the back of the unit then ground that wire to the unit itself. Not even that trick worked to get rid of the whine. I'm still stumped but ferrite chokes are my new favorite thing in car audio.
The Dual DV526BT is a pretty good unit for the price. I wanted a touchscreen with a front aux, usb, and micro slot. It was one of the few units to fit the bill. I only have two gripes about the unit.
First it won't play FLAC natively. I knew that going into it but hoped that Dual would fix change that with a firmware update. So far they haven't. It's not a huge deal since I use my DAP for almost all playback.
The second is the BT. The only thing I use it for is calls but if you plan on streaming tunes with it this could affect you more then me. It used to work great. Then one day it decided to reboot as soon as BT connects from my phone. To solve this I just deleted the unit from my phones BT memory. I'll look into it more one day but for now the BT just doesn't get used.
96RedRunner
Senior Member
Something else that can create electrical noise is running differing voltages parallel to each other.
Did you reroute some 12 VDC and sound system wires parallel to each other?
With how our 12vdc (dirty vdc) is created it could be as little as a inch or two parrallel run.
It's going to be something simple.
Know you have it fixed, I'm courious of the why.
I'm new to the different file types for music, learn as I go on that. ha I'm running IPOD with 1000 or so songs on it.
Wanted BT for phone no external mic, see how that works out for me.
Video for backup cam,
If it sounds clear crisp loud I'm good!!
Did you reroute some 12 VDC and sound system wires parallel to each other?
With how our 12vdc (dirty vdc) is created it could be as little as a inch or two parrallel run.
It's going to be something simple.
Know you have it fixed, I'm courious of the why.
I'm new to the different file types for music, learn as I go on that. ha I'm running IPOD with 1000 or so songs on it.
Wanted BT for phone no external mic, see how that works out for me.
Video for backup cam,
If it sounds clear crisp loud I'm good!!
Last edited:
4Reak Show
New member
Ferrite chokes work great to eliminate radio interference with LED's on as well. I got terrible buzz in stereo when I turned on any of my lights. $8 on Amazon or whatever at 3 second install and it went away. Very cool devices.
96RedRunner
Senior Member
If you wanted you could install a choke between alternator and battery, cover the whole system would be overkill though.
theesotericone
New member
Yep. There so frikkin easy and effective it's stupid not to put them on.
I've got 3 in place. The one in the photo is on all the power wires going to my switch panel. I also put one on the main power lead from the radio. Then I put one in the engine bay on the main power lead to my amps. It's so clear and so clean. Overkill? No such thing.
theesotericone
New member
Kings on 4 Corners
I've been wanting Kings since I first got my rig two years ago. I decided to get a cheaper shock and lift kit then put that money towards things that would make my rig offroad better. Well it offroads as good as anyone can expect from a 3rd gen now. I also have been setting aside 4 dollars a day for the last 2 years. That allowed me to get Kings.
A big thanks to King for continuing to make great shocks, even with the price increase. A big thanks goes to Filthy Motorsports as well. When I talked to Ben about my rig he had custom rears built for me. The numbers I gave him are the exact shock I received. No more limited down travel.
Here's what I was listening to on my test drive a few minutes ago. It came on randomly with shuffle just as I pulled up to a local dirt road. Pretty fitting. lol
First order of business was getting the rears done. I knew they'd be the hardest and I'm the type that always gets the hard shit done first. No point in putting it off till later. I still don't get all the fuss about removing the upper shock nut. A 3/8" socket wrench with a deep well fits in there just perfect.
Once the old rears where out I cleaned the crap from the upper shock buckets. There was a ton of crap to clean. Must of been from that mud I got into last year. Yet another reason to stay away from mud. lol
Here's the old Toytec Boss compared to the new Kings. My down travel has been limited by about 2" for too long. Not anymore:
Here's the drivers side in it's new home.
Here's both sides done. Shiny new things are so cool to look at. lol]
Then it was onto the fronts. There about as easy as can be. Once you jack up the front and get it on jack stands keep the jack close by. After the wheels are off use the jack to jack up the LCA about 2". From there remove the old and install the new.
Here's the old compared to the new:
More cool shiny knew things:
After install and the tires back on:
The rears have a habit of rotating out if place. [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION] has had this issue and he isn't alone. It seems most people with 3rd Gens run into this issue. After picking his brain a bit I took a real close look at the plastic and metal sleeve the upper shock rides in.
Unner suggested maybe cutting it down. It's only about 1/4" longer then the threaded shock shaft so I decided that wasn't the best idea. The last thing I wanted was to bottom the nut out and still have a loose shock.
Instead I decided to use some loctite. I should have gotten photo's of this but I didn't. You know, cause I actually like to get shit done. So instead I get to explain in words. Think of it like being back in the 1800's.
At the end of the upper shock shaft there is a lower and an upper bushing. In between the bushings is a plastic sleeve then a metal sleeve that rides over the shock shaft. The smaller bushing goes on first then the shock goes in place then the larger bushing goes over the top. Then a top mount piece goes on, then a washer, then the nut.
I did a test fit and could easily rotate the shock. That's a good thing as you want to get them in the proper position before you crank the top nut down. The only thing I could see letting the shock rotate was the two sleeves. I decided to loctite the upper smooth shaft, both sleeves, and both bushings.
My theory as to why the shock rotates is pretty simple. Even with top nut cranked fully down and the bushings compressed those two sleeves allow rotation. Once they get loctited it should not allot them to rotate. There is no compresive force applied to them after you bottom the top nut out. So they only way they can move is laterally. My hope is the loctite prevents that. I'll know in a few trips whether it worked or not.
Thanks [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION] for making me think through what the issue could be. If it works I'll let you know.
With all the hard work done it was time to go for a drive, As expect there was zero difference at 75MPH on the highway. Then it was onto a local dirt road. The difference here was night and day. A stretch that I was only able to handle at 35MPH I was easily able to hit at 50MPH.
It's a deep washboards road with a lot of cornering. With the old shocks I could get it up to 50 but it felt on the verge of out of control. With the new shocks I was able to hold 50 and still feel like I could control the rig. Not only control it but control it easily. I would have pushed it harder but it's Saturday and others do use this road on the weekend. I'll be back Monday to see what 60 feels like.
After the high speed run I took it over to my local steep rutted hill. This is a section I use for testing crawl performance. While the Kings did fair better under crawling conditions it was far from night and day. The hard drops where a little softer and the roll center felt more in control.
Tire contact in the rear was much better. I ran the stretch open. With the old shocks I'd have to lock the rear to make it. So that 2" of down travel was well worth it.
Tomorrow I pack the rig for the Dusy. Then I take it for a long drive fully loaded to make sure it's solid. There's a lot of things I'm worried about on this trip. My shocks aren't one of them.
theesotericone
New member
Thanks man. It's a solid group of guys going that have some skills. We should be fine.
How long did it take before you noticed your rears rotating? I've got 30 miles of high speed dirt and about 60 of highway so far and they haven't moved at all. That said I've got 300 miles of street to get to the Dusy. Then do the Dusy. Then drive home.
If they still haven't rotated I'll be stoked.
BrianSD_42
New member
I didn’t know about Ferrite chokes until I read it in this thread. Very helpful (I hope). Now I need to buy some for my LED strips and halos. Those more than anything seem to cause radio interference for me.
Unner
New member
Just don't let [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] break his truck. He's only had it back together for like a week haha
After I really cranked down on them I barely notice the rotation. I drove 1,000 miles of pavement from Alabama to Northern Wisconsin and they had rotated just a little bit. Off pavement after maybe like 30-40 miles of fast dirt road driving I would see a little bit of rotation. It's no where near as bad as when I first installed them and they rotated within 10 miles of pavement. That was before I really tightened them down.
The way I determined if they were rotating was using my knuckles to measure the distance between the shock and the rear sway bar. If I used to get 4 knuckles in there, and now only 3 knuckles I knew they had rotated. That seemed like the easiest way that was slightly more scientific than eyeballing it haha
Now it's more like a check it when I think about it. When I change/check oil, rotate tires, etc. I haven't done any serious rock crawling where you're flexing the suspension constantly back and forth since I installed the new rear shocks, so I'm curious how they'll hold on the Dusy for you.
AssBurns
New member
:flipoff:
Hahah I'm really hoping that I don't have any major issues. I haven't had a chance to do any real shakedown runs yet, but I have a feeling I'll survive. Let's just hope I make it to the trailhead tonight.
theesotericone
New member
Here's a quick Dusy update. I'll be posting some photo's of the carnage in a future report. The trail is every bit as bad ass as it's reputation would leave you to believe. We all made it back to pavement and that was the goal. Mission accomplished. The Dusy is done.
Well, the good new is [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] had no failures on this trip. I wasn't so fortunate.
In total I broke 4 CV's and an outer tie rod. I beat the crap out of my rear bumper, sliders and skids. They all performed the job they had. Which was to protect my rig. I made it out with no body damage.
I did notice today that my lift gate has a larger opening on the passenger side then the drivers side so something got tweaked in the hinge from all the hard drops. I also have a blown axle seal and bearing in the passenger rear axle. It might be bent so I'll look into that. There's a ton of fresh gear oil coming from somewhere. I rounded over the rear axle drain plug weld so that's gonna be fun to get out.
After the trail AssBurns was nice enough to help me and [MENTION=135317]rkntoy[/MENTION] do a quick eyeball alignment in the parking lot. With that done I drove 387 miles home at 75 MPH. My rig still has almost no vibrations at highway speed. The only thing different was my dual case shifters in the rear box now rattle a bit.
I've got a lot to do to make sure the rig is back to tip top shape. I'll be updating with some of that as I progress through it.
theesotericone
New member
Yeah. I'm pretty sure it is a record. If anyone has broken more I've never heard of it.
I went two years without any breaks. Then it all caught up to me. I need to look into the front suspension and possibly get some limit straps for the Kings. That was the only change to my rig pre-trip. When I compared them to the Billie/Eibach combo both had the same length though. I'm at a loss to explain it. Maybe it's just bad luck.
AssBurns
New member
I had no failures but still got plenty of damage.
I bet you don’t have a bent axle. Probably just a bad bearing or seal. One usually leads to failure of the other, so get them both replaced right away.
Most of those CV’s were kind of a domino effect from other problems. Only the first one was really your fault. The second one could have been prevented but we thought we only had a little ways to go till the top of the hill haha. We were wrong!
I bet you don’t have a bent axle. Probably just a bad bearing or seal. One usually leads to failure of the other, so get them both replaced right away.
Most of those CV’s were kind of a domino effect from other problems. Only the first one was really your fault. The second one could have been prevented but we thought we only had a little ways to go till the top of the hill haha. We were wrong!
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