theesotericone's Trails and BS Thread

[TCMach]

Looks like one hell of a trip!

Sorry for the horrible pun, but it looks like your stuck between a rock and a hard place. Limit straps will help, but only so much. I think I would take my chances with the Lotus axles and know that you "might" break an ADD stub shaft every now and then. After replacing mine two times I could easily replace one on the trail (or should I say camp) if I had the tools. It's not hard, just a little more time consuming than a CV. I would really like to see someone cryo treat the stub shaft and compare the difference.

I’ll vouch for lotus axles too. Even a used set somebody thrashed on layball:. My steering rack decided it had done enough before the CVs gave out.

Serious bummer breaking that many on a weekend though. Still counting my lucky stars after 6 years of Colorado and Moab. I need to go find some wood now...

 

[Bandit Runner]

I thought about Lotus but I'd rather break the CV then an intermediate shaft in the diff.

Usually for trail repairs I use my hi-lift. This time I used a little trick [MENTION=135317]rkntoy[/MENTION] showed me. He keeps his old bottle jack in his rig. He's also welded a nut to the end of the bottle jack crank handle. You put that under the LCA and get an impact on the handle. That lifts the whole LCA far enough in the air to remove the tire. It's a sweet ass time saver.

Once the tires off that gets stuffed under the rig. That's safe enough. If the bottle jack fails or slips the tire will keep the truck from crushing you. There's OSHA safe and there's trail safe. The tire as a safety is not OSHA approved. lol

Thanks for the response. I like the nut on the bottle jack idea. I might try something like that. The tire under the truck is good too. My only concern would be that there is still about a 5" gap that the truck can fall down before landing on the tire.

 

[rkntoy]

Thanks for the response. I like the nut on the bottle jack idea. I might try something like that. The tire under the truck is good too. My only concern would be that there is still about a 5" gap that the truck can fall down before landing on the tire.

Not a lot of options on the trail unless you pack a floor jack and jack stands. Hi Lifts are worse as you have to lift the whole body higher to get the tire off the ground unless you strap the suspension up to keep it from drooping.

 

[TonyB66]

...I have custom kings in the rear. They're 2" longer than the 334's. Worth every penny of having them made custom. I have so much more down travel now.

After my previous post I had found in this thread where you commented about these custom Kings.

After this adventure, would you still go with that amount of extended travel? If you provided your rationale for these custom Kings, the decided upon length, please direct me to that post/discussion. Curious as to the factors that you considered. Haven't done any serious off-roading since I had an FJ-40 about 25 years ago. Feeling somewhat ignorant... Learning a lot from your travels and experiences!

 

[spartacus]

that trip report or should I say an epic adventure was great. I am amazed by your tenacity and resilience. good work. hope you figure it all out before your next one.

 

[theesotericone]

After this adventure, would you still go with that amount of extended travel? If you provided your rationale for these custom Kings, the decided upon length, please direct me to that post/discussion. Curious as to the factors that you considered. Haven't done any serious off-roading since I had an FJ-40 about 25 years ago. Feeling somewhat ignorant... Learning a lot from your travels and experiences!

After I went to 861's I cycled my suspension without the rear shock in. I knew that the Boss shocks limited my down travel by 2+ inches. When I went to purchase the Kings I gave my cycled numbers to them and they built the shock to those numbers.

I don't run a sway bar and have a large rear lift. If you have normal lift there regular rears you linked would work fine. When you go to place your order call the shop your buying them from and tell them what your set-up is. They'll direct you to the correct rear shock.

 

[theesotericone]

Small front diff update.

I leveled my rig last weekend in the garage and took numbers at various points of the frame. All numbers where identical or very close to it. I'd say the frames not the issue.

I got some used left and right mounting arms delivered today. I compared them to the ones I pulled off my rig and the dimensions where almost the same. Not nearly enough off to cause the passenger side to be an inch higher.

I went ahead and verified that by installing them. My diff is still rolled even with the new to me arms. Something is way screwed. FML. I'll pull the diff this weekend and have a look at the ADD tube. Looking at it from under the truck it looks fine but it's the only thing it could be at this point. That or the rear mount got tweaked but the arms should still level the diff with a tweaked rear mount.

Just for shits and giggles I decided to try and level the diff as is. I happen to have a brand new diff drop kit from my old lift. I took out one bolt and one spacer. Those spacers are 1" high. My diffs rolled almost exactly 1". So I threw one spacer and bolt on the passenger side. This is what a hack fix looks like. And no, I'm not leaving it like that. The diff is level though. lol

So the rigs still down. If anyone has ANY ideas other than the ADD tube to look at I'm open to them. For the ADD tube to be rolled an inch it should be pretty obvious but it's not. Let's here those ideas.

 

[AssBurns]

Small front diff update.



I leveled my rig last weekend in the garage and took numbers at various points of the frame. All numbers where identical or very close to it. I'd say the frames not the issue.



I got some used left and right mounting arms delivered today. I compared them to the ones I pulled off my rig and the dimensions where almost the same. Not nearly enough off to cause the passenger side to be an inch higher.



I went ahead and verified that by installing them. My diff is still rolled even with the new to me arms. Something is way screwed. FML. I'll pull the diff this weekend and have a look at the ADD tube. Looking at it from under the truck it looks fine but it's the only thing it could be at this point. That or the rear mount got tweaked but the arms should still level the diff with a tweaked rear mount.



Just for shits and giggles I decided to try and level the diff as is. I happen to have a brand new diff drop kit from my old lift. I took out one bolt and one spacer. Those spacers are 1" high. My diffs rolled almost exactly 1". So I threw one spacer and bolt on the passenger side. This is what a hack fix looks like. And no, I'm not leaving it like that. The diff is level though. lol

So the rigs still down. If anyone has ANY ideas other than the ADD tube to look at I'm open to them. For the ADD tube to be rolled an inch it should be pretty obvious but it's not. Let's here those ideas.

So maybe we need someone without this issue to measure their rig. I went through this same thing last year. The ADD tube was definitely bent but even when I replaced the mounting arms and ADD tube, it was still off a little. I couldn’t imagine it being normal but you never really know. [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] maybe you can take some measurements on yours?

 

[Wedgy]

I'm pretty sure it's the ferrite chokes....when they get choked they react with one of the many available sticks and induce an unwanted yaw in the....
Uhhhh, thingy under your truck that's not level.
Textbook case of something's bent.
Please keep the progress updated, this is a great build and fab thread !

 

[Road Bull]

Man, that's a bummer for sure. Maybe get some measurements of your front diff mounts and compare that to someone else's diff mounts? If you are able to add a 1" spacer to one side to even it out, something got tweaked hard. My buddy broke his diff mount a few weeks ago and it cause all kinds of collateral damage. His is a 4th gen, but before we knew that the mount was broken, it just looked like a broken CV. They had his CV changed out in no time, only to break it almost immediately.

You may have already ruled this out, but I would be suspicious of this area causing the problems. Especially considering how many CV's your rig was eating.

Edit: Never mind, as it seems that somehow I missed that you got new diff mount arms.

 

[theesotericone]

So maybe we need someone without this issue to measure their rig. I went through this same thing last year. The ADD tube was definitely bent but even when I replaced the mounting arms and ADD tube, it was still off a little. I couldn’t imagine it being normal but you never really know. [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] maybe you can take some measurements on yours?

I've pulled the numbers off my Taco. It's the same exact front end. It's 3 1/4" from bottom of ADD tube to frame and 3 1/4" from bottom of drivers side collar to frame. I would appreciate someone without a diff drop verifying that on a 3rd gen but I'm sure it's the same or very close to it.

You may have already ruled this out, but I would be suspicious of this area causing the problems. Especially considering how many CV's your rig was eating.

Ruled it out? I ruled it in. My diff being rolled is the reason I broke so many passenger side CV's. It's effectively adding an inch of droop on the passenger side. Not good. Now I just need to pull the diff and have a good look at the ADD tube and the rear mount. I was hoping the mounting arms fixed it but hope never really works out for me. lol

 

[theesotericone]

Yesterday I pulled the front diff to have a better look at the ADD tube and try and figure out while my diff is sitting crooked.

I have to tell everyone one thing. The diff is MUCH easier to take out if you remove both mounting arms first. This allows you to pivot the diff in ways you can't with them attached. I floor jack and about 5 minutes of time and it was on the ground. It's a bit of a fight still but it's way more manageable.

First thing I noticed with the diff gone was a small dent in my oil pan. Right above where the ADD tube sits. It's hard to make out in the photo but it's about 1" long and 1/4" deep. Notice the cleaner spot center of photo? Yeah, that's the ding.

Then I got a close look at the ADD tube itself. What a coincidence. It had the same size ding in the same spot.

After sighting the tube it still didn't look like it was bent enough to cause a 1" roll. I got out my framing square and pulled some numbers. It's bent less then 1/4". That does not explain the 1" I'm seeing.

I took a look at the next most likely component. The rear mounting cushion. Here's where some of the problem lies. Sighting it you can plainly see it's bent. And bent pretty good. That could easily make up the other 3/4" I'm missing over the length of the diff.

Since there was that much carnage to the diff and it's mounts I looked over the front end very closely. What I found next sent me into a dimension of pissed off I have not reached in a very long time.

My passenger side King coilover looked bent. WTF? How do you bend a 7/8" shaft on a brand new shock? Here's the driver coilover on top and the passenger on bottom.

Here's that handy framing square against the passenger side. Take a close look at the bottom of the shaft. See how it looks like a banana? Yeah, it's not supposed to look like that.

With all the damage to the front I spent another 30 minutes under my rig. Something had to be bent. There's no way that kind of damage occurs without bending a crossmember, spindles, LCA or UCA. After numerous measurements, from various fixed points on the frame, I can't find anything bent. I'm at a complete loss to explain the damage to the shock.

I'll be getting a hold of King as soon as they open Monday and see if they will warranty this or not. I also have a rear mount, top washers and bottom washers for the left and right mounting arms arriving on Tuesday. I sourced an ADD tube at a junkyard a few hours south and will pick that up sometime this week.

I'm hoping to spend Saturday putting everything back together. I'll run my old Eibach/Billy shocks until I get the King thing resolved. Once it's back together there's one of two things that will happen.

One, it levels the diff and I'm back to wheeling an IFS rig hard.

Two, it doesn't level the diff and I chop all the front mounts and SAS it.

 

[jkeith.w]

Is it possible the engine is moving as well (motor mounts)? - or did you definitely hit something with the diff from below?

I remember [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] had front diff issues - and also motor mount failures... you clearly have contact? :shrug:

 

[jkeith.w]

also - is it the shaft that is bent on the King, or just the aluminum lower? That lower - does it thread on? if so, did the threads pull?

- nevermind - I can see that it is the shaft.
- second edit - looks like the lower also?

 

[theesotericone]

Is it possible the engine is moving as well (motor mounts)? - or did you definitely hit something with the diff from below?

I remember [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] had front diff issues - and also motor mount failures... you clearly have contact? :shrug:

I checked the mounts. They're not bent, there's no cracks in the welds. the bolts are still tight and the rubber looks very good for it's age.

I'm really stumped as to how they collided. The diff mounts to the crossmember at three points. Even if you destroy front suspension components that should't allow the diff to angle. It's not related to suspension geometry at all in my mind. The only thing connecting it to the front suspension is the CV. That should break well before mounts get bent.

My skids fully cover it and there is no damage to them. How did it get pushed up? I stil have no clue. It's one of the stranger things I've tried to wrap my head around in my years of wrenching.

 

[jkeith.w]

The only thing connecting it to the front suspension is the CV. That should break well before mounts get bent.

Is that the same side as the bent King?...

 

[theesotericone]

Is that the same side as the bent King?...

Yep. It means something should be very obvious. It's not. lol

 

[jkeith.w]

and your upright looks good on that side? top of shock tower?

 

[theesotericone]

and your upright looks good on that side? top of shock tower?

Everything looks identical to the drivers side.

I'll walk you through the steps I used to verify. See if you can find any flaws in this method.

First I leveled my rig in the garage. I know the garage floor is perfectly level side to side and sloped 1/8" per foot front to back. The slope doesn't matter because of the level side to side.

Next I verified my rig was level by checking 3 points going frame to frame. Back, middle, front.

Then I checked frame to ground on both side at various points. All there within 1/16th.

Then I checked frame to body. Again all within 1/8"

That leads me to conclude the frame is not bent.

Using that I checked from various points on the frame to tower buckets. LCA mounts. Crossmembers, UCA mounts. Using the drivers side as the control these where also all within 1/8" max. Most where exact.

That pretty much eliminated the frame. Which is where I suspected I'd find the issue. Hence the guy scratching head feeling I had last night going to bed. lol

 

[jkeith.w]

I'm thinking over-compression on the passenger side; and the axle smashed your diff - no issues with the top of the strut tower? no cracking on the a-arm?

(I think Steven's doing it too)