They Cut My Wires!

[wahoossi]

I grudgingly but politely waited for my new extended warranty dash (approved 5/15). I read on this forum the whining of a Toyota dealership mechanic in regards how no one give them any love unless there is a recall freebie��. I had not been to my dealer since I had my timing belt changerd some 30k miles ago and was reluctant to brim my truck because it was not the best experience. However, reading the forum accounts of how people gotten
gotten dashes in a few weeks or months and I had beenn waiting over year, I hoped scheduling a routine Svc might get me a new dash faster. My dash was literally disintegrating from the SE Georgia heat and humidity. Sure enough, as soon I had my 4Runner in the dealership, they called me to say my dash had arrived! That is even more remarkable seeing how they initially told me it had never been ordered (WRONG), it couldn't have been ordered until 1/16 (WRONG), and that my truck did not qualify (AGAIN WRONG).
I guess I should have taken a hint when I called the California headquarters to find out what I could do to hasten getting the new dash. They asked me the name of my dealership and after I told them I heard silence for a minute or so and the next thing I heard was a recommendation I go to a new dealership. No explanation given. I called a couple of dealerships in larger cities north and south (Jacksonville and Savannah) and they said I would immediately be put back on day 1 waiting. I think the Toyota rep was telling me to dump this dealer . I live in a small community and I have not heard many good things about them. After my experience today, I have become a hater.
I received a call from the Svc mgr, TB, complaining that there was a lot of "stuff (MODS) on my truck , including an aftermarket stereo, two amps, a backup camera, two LED light bars , radar detector built in, etc. he said the wires were a mess . I told him to do his best at putting the wires back together after disconnecting them and I could put the rest back together. Never in my wildest nightmares would I have guessed they would take out a pair of wire cutters and haphazardly CUT THROUGH ALL MOST OFMY WIRES! They even cut throug my fiber optic cable to my backup camera, ruling an expensive 20 ft fiber optic cable which cannot e spliced easily, essentially ruining a $120 Kenwood CMOS 220 backup camera. They cut through all the cables of my SWRTY 60, again not fixable. My $1000+ stereo is now worthless and that does not even include the countless hours and numerous bloody knuckles I have incurred working on it. Imagine the audacity of these sons of *****es hacking throug the wires without regard for their consequences. I left the name of the dealership out as I will give them a chance to make this right (they won't). I cannot just reword because there are so many dummy wires in this car ( unused unconnected wires) now that my previous butt connections were cut all the wires are cut flush and I have NO IDEA WHICH WIRES CONNECT WHERE. With the SWRTY60, it is not intuitive and some of the wires appear to have been pulled back out of my reach . I will likely need to take it to a stereo store sndd prepare to get raped.

 

[Elan_]

Small claims

 

[unevolved]

Small claims

Yep. Get an estimate from a shop you trust to repair the damage they did, back it up with pictures, and get ready for a fight. Sounds like it's worth it.

 

[HiVel-JR]

Sorry to hear that. Those guys should be fired from their job.

 

[Slowgoat]

I would be so pissed!!

Go get em!!

 

[00Sebby]

[MENTION=81484]wahoossi[/MENTION], I'm not at all defending the dealer, but...

Clue #1: You kind of knew they had a crappy history based on your own experience. Maybe so much so that even HQ suggested going somewhere else.

Clue #2: They called you and complained about the mods which showed it was beyond routine. They have a routine job structure/allowance for OEM component replacements. Your vehicle presented several obstacles to them and they let you know. Dealers are not custom shops.

Clue #3 - You knew the complexity of what they were dealing with given your extensive wiring changes. "Countless hours and bloody knuckles" worth of work, aftermarket this and that, and you trusted them? You gave them permission to try to figure it out, disassemble your custom creation, and "do his best" to put it back together? Really? See number clues 1 and 2 and I guess we now know what "do his best" means.

IMO, they should've refused the job and given you a reason. "We don't want to mess up your mods. Take all that stuff out and bring it back, we'll put the dash in for you." But they were/are not that smart. You won't get anywhere in small claims because they presented to you that the mods were a problem and you gave your permission to continue and "do his best".

Not meaning to beat up the OP but this is the hindsight analysis I would've went through had it been me in that situation. It wouldn't have been because I would've bailed after they called back and complained. And while I feel bad for the situation, I find it ironic that this kind of stuff happens on a forum where almost everyone frowns on taking the vehicle to a quick oil change place for something as routine as an oil change.:shrug:

 

[CookieRoe]

[MENTION=81484]wahoossi[/MENTION] : Man, sorry to see this, it sucks. But, I'm not sure if the dealer can be held liable for the cut wires. Removing them and performing the job of replacing the dash in a "kosher" way, would've costed the techs and dealership more time/money (money that corporate would NOT have paid them). I would yell and scream at the service manager to AT LEAST compensate you with something (that $120 wire for starters). Tell them you are going to Toyota corporate to make a claim, see if that doesn't do anything. Most of us have mods on our rigs which is why most of us don't go back to the stealer in the chance they f*ch up our rides. I only go there for emissions/state inspections/tranny flush/ any major repair that doesn't involve my mods.

Good luck to ya!!

 

[wahoossi]

[MENTION=81484]wahoossi[/MENTION], I'm not at all defending the dealer, but...

Clue #1: You kind of knew they had a crappy history based on your own experience. Maybe so much so that even HQ suggested going somewhere else.

Clue #2: They called you and complained about the mods which showed it was beyond routine. They have a routine job structure/allowance for OEM component replacements. Your vehicle presented several obstacles to them and they let you know. Dealers are not custom shops.

Clue #3 - You knew the complexity of what they were dealing with given your extensive wiring changes. "Countless hours and bloody knuckles" worth of work, aftermarket this and that, and you trusted them? You gave them permission to try to figure it out, disassemble your custom creation, and "do his best" to put it back together? Really? See number clues 1 and 2 and I guess we now know what "do his best" means.

IMO, they should've refused the job and given you a reason. "We don't want to mess up your mods. Take all that stuff out and bring it back, we'll put the dash in for you." But they were/are not that smart. You won't get anywhere in small claims because they presented to you that the mods were a problem and you gave your permission to continue and "do his best".

Not meaning to beat up the OP but this is the hindsight analysis I would've went through had it been me in that situation. It wouldn't have been because I would've bailed after they called back and complained. And while I feel bad for the situation, I find it ironic that this kind of stuff happens on a forum where almost everyone frowns on taking the vehicle to a quick oil change place for something as routine as an oil change.:shrug:

I don't have the time or the inclination to take anyone to small claims court. My time is too valuable and frankly it would be a losing proposition for me to take one day away from my profession as I have two offices and a huge overhead. I will give them a chance to make it right fully knowing they will blow me off. I live in a town with one Toyota dealership and the nearest dealers are 60 miles away. I did try to take it elsewhere but was told I would be put back at day #1 after waiting more than one year. All they had to do was unplug the wires and I would have been able to identity them easier or they could have cut the non video wires and marked them. They just went through them with a pair of wire cutters. I posted here mostly to vent frustration but also to warn others to be careful if this situation comes up with you. I am going to write a politely worded complaint expressing my displeasure to the owner (whom I know peripherally through our kids, it is a small town) and I will call the Svc manager on Monday and gently give him a piece of my mind. I too own a business in this town and can't be too much of an A hole although it is tempting. A call will also go to the California office to reinforce what they already know about this dealership. Below is a picture of my cut backup camera video cable

 

[av8ter]

I am a Toyota tech and have dealt with this situation exactly.

Customer comes in for a new dash in his 05 limited(JBL system). Has a double din pioneer installed, steering wheel control module, XM module, factory amp integration module, back up camera interface, iPod/USB cables... Basically every extra piece of freaking jazz that could be stuffed in the dash. His stereo installer has all the add-ons tucked up inbetween the dash and the inner HVAC ducting.

All his tricky daddy stereo setup ended up in a box on the passenger floorboard yielding a giant glory hole front and center of his new prized dash board.


Sorry that your experience was less than stellar. As others have said, the technician involved was not likely compensated in anyway for having to deal with the additional hassle of modifications. Did he deliberately cut your wires? Was it possible that they broke when he went to remove the radio(pulled tight against the sharp inner dash frame)?

Me personally... I'd enjoy looking at my brand new dash and be thankful that Toyota Corp. cares about their consumers.

 

[gm350reratliff]

I would've thrown a dash mat on it and called it a day rather than deal with all that.


You're not alone though. Cutting wires is exactly what some Ford techs do when they have to remove the cab on the super duty trucks to work on the Diesel engine. They are not properly compensated for removal and reinstallation of after market parts, including wiring.

 

[97hb]

Lol exactly why I wanted the dash not installed and they would not release it to me. I even called corporate and they said tough luck. Still no dash for me and mine is cracked bad from Texas. Good luck!

 

[CookieRoe]

No doubt that Toyota will not release the dash to customers unless it is installed, if my dash was trashed, I would "undo or rewire" some mods to get the dash. If you can't do that for whatever reason, I would talk to a service manager and/or tech and hash out a deal where they will leave your wires alone or set them aside.

 

[unevolved]

All his tricky daddy stereo setup ended up in a box on the passenger floorboard yielding a giant glory hole front and center of his new prized dash board.

As someone with an aftermarket radio, I think that's a great way to handle this situation. The service writer should have given the customer a heads-up, since it's warranty work.

I'm having my dash replaced under warranty. After this thread, I'm considering pulling out the nav unit before I drop off the truck. Not because I expect them to mess it up, but just because it'll make it easier for them and eliminate the opportunity for them to make a mistake on something they're not familiar with.

 

[techno]

Many years ago I needed dealership work done on a Nissan that I owned. It had a CB, stereo upgrades and aftermarket lighting wires that I knew were going to be foreign to them and in the way. I told the service rep about them and asked how they would be treated and was told a similar thing, they would do their best. I left a case of beer on the passenger seat with a note that said sorry for the extra wiring and stuff and call me if you need help figuring it out.
They figured it all out!

Cutting the wires is just nasty and plain lazy. I would expect things to be disconnected, but not damaged. If messing with your wiring is going to take them more time, then they should charge you for the appropriate labor time, like most shops do for extra unforeseen items.

 

[wahoossi]

I am a Toyota tech and have dealt with this situation exactly.

Customer comes in for a new dash in his 05 limited(JBL system). Has a double din pioneer installed, steering wheel control module, XM module, factory amp integration module, back up camera interface, iPod/USB cables... Basically every extra piece of freaking jazz that could be stuffed in the dash. His stereo installer has all the add-ons tucked up inbetween the dash and the inner HVAC ducting.

All his tricky daddy stereo setup ended up in a box on the passenger floorboard yielding a giant glory hole front and center of his new prized dash board.


Sorry that your experience was less than stellar. As others have said, the technician involved was not likely compensated in anyway for having to deal with the additional hassle of modifications. Did he deliberately cut your wires? Was it possible that they broke when he went to remove the radio(pulled tight against the sharp inner dash frame)?

Me personally... I'd enjoy looking at my brand new dash and be thankful that Toyota Corp. cares about their consumers.

Toyota may care about their customers, but clearly their techs,(you included) don't. How hard would it be to at least label and # the wires before cutting them. A tech cannot identify a fiber optic cable? Or how about leaving a 4 gauge live untaped amp power wire hanging at the drivers feet ? (See picture) . That could under the right circumstances have given me or my wife (she picked up the car because I was working) at the very least a nasty burn if not worse! How difficult would it have been to insulate that with a couple of layers of electrical tape rather than leave it dangling out of sight under the dash but close to the brake and gas pedals with possible lethal consequences. Yeah, av8ter, sounds like you would fit right in at this dealership . By the way, Toyota graciously provided the dash due to their own ineptness in engineering a vinyl compound that would not stand up to the elements . I love my truck but it seems that Toyota is either leading or close to the leadership in recalls. Maybe if they engineered things the right way initially they would not have to be so gracious in retrospect. Do you think this wire was "accidentally cut by rubbing on sharp metal"? You should go into politics.

 

[ThorInc]

Toyota may care about their customers, but clearly their techs,(you included) don't. How hard would it be to at least label and # the wires before cutting them. A tech cannot identify a fiber optic cable? Or how about leaving a 4 gauge live untaped amp power wire hanging at the drivers feet ? (See picture) . That could under the right circumstances have given me or my wife (she picked up the car because I was working) at the very least a nasty burn if not worse! How difficult would it have been to insulate that with a couple of layers of electrical tape rather than leave it dangling out of sight under the dash but close to the brake and gas pedals with possible lethal consequences. Yeah, av8ter, sounds like you would fit right in at this dealership . By the way, Toyota graciously provided the dash due to their own ineptness in engineering a vinyl compound that would not stand up to the elements . I love my truck but it seems that Toyota is either leading or close to the leadership in recalls. Maybe if they engineered things the right way initially they would not have to be so gracious in retrospect. Do you think this wire was "accidentally cut by rubbing on sharp metal"? You should go into politics.

Not picking a side but why should the customer be concerned with what the tech gets paid for by the dealership? If the dealership accepts the job, the job should be done right regardless. Seems like this is an employee/employer issue that is being visited of the customer that merely dropped his car/truck off to be fixed by warranty or paid by the customer. Maybe I am missing something here?

 

[av8ter]

Toyota may care about their customers, but clearly their techs,(you included) don't. How hard would it be to at least label and # the wires before cutting them. A tech cannot identify a fiber optic cable? Or how about leaving a 4 gauge live untaped amp power wire hanging at the drivers feet ? (See picture) . That could under the right circumstances have given me or my wife (she picked up the car because I was working) at the very least a nasty burn if not worse! How difficult would it have been to insulate that with a couple of layers of electrical tape rather than leave it dangling out of sight under the dash but close to the brake and gas pedals with possible lethal consequences. Yeah, av8ter, sounds like you would fit right in at this dealership . By the way, Toyota graciously provided the dash due to their own ineptness in engineering a vinyl compound that would not stand up to the elements . I love my truck but it seems that Toyota is either leading or close to the leadership in recalls. Maybe if they engineered things the right way initially they would not have to be so gracious in retrospect. Do you think this wire was "accidentally cut by rubbing on sharp metal"? You should go into politics.

Thanks for posting that pic and also for your attempt at insulting me.

Your spaghetti nest is far worse than I imagined, I would have absolutely refused service. Toyota has zero obligation to perform warranty repairs to vehicles when the part in question has been modified from its original state, including warranty extension replacement of the dash boards.

Your back-up camera does not use an "optical" cable, simply a co-ax. That wire can be repaired by solder and electrical tape. You are also not at risk of being burned by a +12 volt source.

Sorry again for your experience. You say it isn't worth your time to take the issue to small claims but your passive aggressive demeanor suggests otherwise.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=81484]wahoossi[/MENTION]

To be fair, the picture is a bit blurry (conspiracy much!? lol j/k man )

So this is a bit of a tricky area. Realistically the Dealership might not have been out of place to say that they cannot perform the recall unless the vehicle is returned to stock (part of the reason many members remove much of their aftermarket items before such recalls.) The technician is following Toyota's guidelines and process for the recall, most of them require you to be working on a stock vehicle. Toyota actually expects the owner to return the vehicle to stock or pay additional labor to the dealership for handling aftermarket accessories typically (not sure if it's their official stance, but it's what we're advised by FTS/TAS and such typically).

For example, we're now doing the leaf spring recalls on Tacomas in our area. It's extremely common for many of the Tacomas we see to have add-a-leaves on the axle for the leaf springs. We have to either tell the customer that they have the following options:

-Return the Vehicle to stock configuration to perform the recall
-Pay additional labor and parts (for a lift block and additional hardware)
-Or not have the recall performed

The reason is because the factory bolts and parts kit that comes with the new leaf springs are for factory height, and we aren't supposed to modify the springs by putting the add-a-leaf in. Most customers end up just buying the lift block and calling it a day, but it's an example of the grey area we deal with when it comes to modified vehicles.

In your case it looks like the technician was simply told "we're not paying you extra labor to do it, just get it done" and for the amount of time he's paid by warranty it wasn't worth the hassle to deal with your aftermarket items as it is not part of the CSP repair. It would not be out of place for a technician to just put the aftermarket items in a box in the passenger seat also, particularly if you are not paying additional labor to address the aftermarket items. All that being said, I would not have cut the wires unless I absolutely had to; sometimes radio installers loop and tuck them through out the dash pad and make it impossible to remove the dash pad itself without cutting wires because they don't bother to take into account if the vehicle ever needs to be worked on. I am not sure if that's what happened in your case, but that could be a possibility.

Keep in mind that the CSP ZE is NOT a recall, it is a Customer Support Program that extends the warranty of the dash pad because of a potential defect that occurs far outside that component's 3yr/36k warranty period. It's Toyota saying, "despite this part being out of it's designed warranty period, we've seen a number of them failing and have decided to voluntarily replace them as a good will gesture to our customers." ALL warranty work is designed and applied to a factory specification vehicle, this is one of the trade-offs of modifying a vehicle. Because realistically the technician is not working on a factory vehicle and thus additional labor may be requested/charged because they have to undo the mods you and/or another shop have done (in many cases very poorly done installation and mods) and then redo them IF the customer wants the vehicle returned to them as it was dropped off.

Post Note-

I can't tell if it's because your installer did a poor job of routing the wiring for the radio (a lot more common than you would think, I commonly see "quality audio shops" will have horrible wire routing and installation, sometimes tapping into network communication lines and other damage that causes more headaches for everyone) or if the technician didn't bother organizing them when he tucked everything back it, it could be a little of both.

Again, your pictures are blurry and out of focus; the wires do appear to be cut with tools, but that appears to be a coaxial cable and not a fiber-optic cable. Which if it is, that can be repaired by soldering the central wire, stripping back the insulation to expose the shielding, applying either a store-bought "repair mesh" or making your own wire mesh and then soldering the new shielding patch to the old shield wires and re-insulating (I had to do this on Sienna I accidentally broke the antennae wire to, wove my own mesh from a ton of left over high quality amp cable I had in my box at the time and it worked fine.) You also can patch a fiber optic cable, but it is annoyingly difficult and a pain in the ass (had to do it once on a BMW, never again...)

 

[Ralph Blake]

When it comes to dealing with Toyota Dealership Non Service Departments, i say use at your own risk.
These people working in them are just some people, they hire to work in their service Dept.s who apply to an add, if you really think they are trained think again.
Just read about how they have chopped up peoples gas pedals, in that floor mat getting caught on it recall fix.

I know you needed to have the dash replaced, but trusting them Toyota non service dumbbells to not damage your wiring was a mistake as you now know.

Since they did not install those items, they are not going to except any responsibility for their damage.

And when you signed to let them do the dash install, you signed away any damage they might do to anything that was not a Toyota installed product.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

When it comes to dealing with Toyota Dealership Non Service Departments, i say use at your own risk.
These people working in them are just some people, they hire to work in their service Dept.s who apply to an add, if you really think they are trained think again.
Just read about how they have chopped up peoples gas pedals, in that floor mat getting caught on it recall fix.

I know you needed to have the dash replaced, but trusting them Toyota non service dumbbells to not damage your wiring was a mistake as you now know.

Since they did not install those items, they are not going to except any responsibility for their damage.

And when you signed to let them do the dash install, you signed away any damage they might do to anything that was not a Toyota installed product.

I understand the frustration, but your statement also applies to any automotive shop. Dealership & Independents just hire who answers the ads, most dealerships don't send their technicians for training when they should to save money and not have to pay them more. But Toyota is changing that by requiring specific certifications for certain recalls which is causing a traffic jam at the training centers. As someone who's holds A1~A8 & L1 ASE's but is barely a Certified Toyota Technician because of the politics of my old dealership I can personally attest to this. Additionally just having ASEs does not ensure that the person is a quality mechanic, it just means they passed the test.

While dealerships are not exactly filled with quality technicians these days (that's a whole different discussion as to why) I find plenty of independent shops and shops like Les Schwab, Pep Boys, Jiffy Lube, ect. that have far less capable or even less ethical technicians. It's unfortunately how the industry is right now and it's going to get worse before it gets better. The only real way to be sure is to basically vet the dealership/shop you want to have your vehicle taken to before giving them the keys.

Additionally while yes technicians are cutting people's pedals, that's because that's Toyota's official "fix" for a far exaggerated issue that a lot of cases were caused by floor mats/other objects used as floor mats. If you read the Dealer Letter that accompanies that recall you can ask for a brand new pedal if you did not like the appearance of the cut pedals, unfortunately they are stubby pedals molded to the same size as the cut ones.

Look I get it Dealerships suck and many do more harm than good, but that's why I left my old dealership and moved to Bend. Because the dealership up here is one of the good ones and I wanted to work for a company that respects it's customers and employees. There are good ones out there, you just have to really look unfortunately. :/