Tips for engine rebuild.

[Frontier719]

Hello all,

At 198,000 miles, I am beginning to develop signs that I need and engine rebuild (according to my mechanic). I burn about a quart of oil every 400 miles and usually get a puff of black smoke on startup. I don't really notice any loss of power or mpg right now and my plugs don't foul out. I just drove it 1700 miles across the country and it did outstanding with about 20 mpg.

I just had the timing belt and water pump done so I think I would like to just rebuild the engine as opposed to buy a crate one or a used one with lower mileage. Plus I love this car and don't want to part with it anytime soon.

Does anyone have advice or recommendations on getting an engine rebuilt? The dealer gave me a quote for $3700 but I plan on shopping around at some local shops in Denver/Colorado Springs.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Here is a huge F'N friendly tip .... DON'T.

First of all putting rebuilt or new heads is one thing and still expensive but a FULL rebuild ... At 200k miles?

No way dude, not in my (non-mechanic) opinion. Just find a nice used engine and do a swap.

 

[Frontier719]

Here is a huge F'N friendly tip .... DON'T.

First of all putting rebuilt or new heads is one thing and still expensive but a full rebuild ... At 200k miles?

No way dude, not in my (non-mechanic) opinion. Just find a nice used engine and do a swap.

But what is your reasoning? Say I find a used engine with 140k miles. The warranties are usually 30-90 days. And based on the life of my current engine, I can only expect to get about 50k-60k miles out of a used engine versus much more with a rebuilt one?

 

[snow junky]

do a compression/leakdown test. 200k isnt much, the block should be fine and good for another 200

 

[Ed_C]

Engine runs good and just smoke at startup and oil consumption,sounds like valve seals. No need to do a full rebuild.

 

[Frontier719]

I assumed it was a valve cover gasket--typical stealership diagnosis with the whole "it needs a new engine. You can pay us $3700 or I can direct you to sales to see what they'd give you on trade in". They didn't even run a compression test when I took it in.

I guess that's on me for not specifically asking to run a compression test. I basically paid them $100 to look around my engine and see if there were any visible leaks. I'm not from the area and couldn't find a private toyota mechanic so it was a last option scenario.

It only started smoking after I drove it across the country. I checked the oil every time I filled up and always kept it topped off so I'm certain the long trip didn't damage the rings since it was always full with oil.

 

[packweco]

If you aren't mechanically inclined yourself, I would take it to another mechanic, even if they aren't specifically toyota. The dealership is going to tell you whatever they can to get the most money out of you. Most people would hear that and go straight to the sales counter for a new car.

I'd get a compression test done, like everyone else mentioned. Is the truck dripping oil? You mentioned you had them look for leaks, did they find any?

If you take your $3,700 and invest it all in oil, you'd wind up with around 620 quarts. Multiply by 400 miles and you get ~250,000.

Just trying to put it into perspective. You'd be spending 50% of the value of the vehicle.

 

[JayRolla]

Engine swap, there is one here 121k miles for $650.

 

[Doc2012]

DON'T rebuild.

Here's why:

Toyota's DO NOT LIKE NON OEM STUFF IN THE MOTOR.

If you rebuild, you're probably going to hone the cylinders, MAYBE bore them just a cunt hair.

Aftermarket pistons are do not play well with Toyota cylinders.

Ok, rebuild the heads using OEM valve guides, seats, and shims.

If you WANT to rebuild it, go for it. BUT, IMHO, drop a new motor into it, then rebuild the old one. That way, should something go wrong with the rebuild, you've got another motor.

You really shouldn't need to rebuild the 3.4 anyway. Unless you have metal shavings in your oil pan like I did.

Does it tick, knock, or make any other weird sounds? Are you sure you dont just have a slight leak somewhere, and you're actually burning it?

If you really are burning oil, then replacing the piston rings will probably solve that, unless you scored the cylinders to shit.


Again, my suggestion, get a "new" motor for right now, put that in, then go through the block, bit by bit, from the valves to the pistons to the block itself. Check EVERYTHING for correct clearance, and if you still want to rebuild, go for it.

 

[T4R2014]

Take a look at those valve stem seals. What about your PCV valve?

 

[Frontier719]

diagnostic tests

Thank you all for the advice. I guess my next step then is to determine what the proper diagnostic test is to determine what the problem is--bear with me as I have limited mechanical knowledge.

A compression test will surely tell me if the piston rings have gone to shit, right?

But what will tell me if it is something less complex, like just a valve cover gasket? Will the readings on a compression test be effected by a blown valve cover gasket?

 

[kolelt]

DON'T rebuild.

Here's why:

Toyota's DO NOT LIKE NON OEM STUFF IN THE MOTOR.

If you rebuild, you're probably going to hone the cylinders, MAYBE bore them just a cunt hair.

Aftermarket pistons are do not play well with Toyota cylinders.

Ok, rebuild the heads using OEM valve guides, seats, and shims.

If you WANT to rebuild it, go for it. BUT, IMHO, drop a new motor into it, then rebuild the old one. That way, should something go wrong with the rebuild, you've got another motor.

You really shouldn't need to rebuild the 3.4 anyway. Unless you have metal shavings in your oil pan like I did.

Does it tick, knock, or make any other weird sounds? Are you sure you dont just have a slight leak somewhere, and you're actually burning it?

If you really are burning oil, then replacing the piston rings will probably solve that, unless you scored the cylinders to shit.


Again, my suggestion, get a "new" motor for right now, put that in, then go through the block, bit by bit, from the valves to the pistons to the block itself. Check EVERYTHING for correct clearance, and if you still want to rebuild, go for it.

Little.of topic ,but don't the 3.4 have a slight tick type sound, like valve tapping? As a normal sound

 

[Doc2012]

Little.of topic ,but don't the 3.4 have a slight tick type sound, like valve tapping? As a normal sound

From MY experience, the 2.4, 2.7, and 3.4 do.

It's the "Toyota Tap".

 

[Ed_C]

Thank you all for the advice. I guess my next step then is to determine what the proper diagnostic test is to determine what the problem is--bear with me as I have limited mechanical knowledge.

A compression test will surely tell me if the piston rings have gone to shit, right?

But what will tell me if it is something less complex, like just a valve cover gasket? Will the readings on a compression test be effected by a blown valve cover gasket?

It won't indicate a valve cover gasket leak,use your eyes and nose for that :biggrin1: Really though,if you smell oil burning and/or see drips,residue,or smoke at the valve cover area then it's most likely a leaking gasket. Get some brake cleaner and rags,clean the areas around the covers,and take it for a drive. If the spots are still clean there's no leaks.

By the way,when I said "valve seals" in my previous post,I'm talking about the valve stem seals not valve cover gaskets.

When valve stem seals wear out,oil seeps into the combustion chambers when the engine is off,which then burns off when you restart it...your puff of smoke at startup. I don't think your rings are shot,you'd see smoke coming out the exhaust every time you accelerate and if bad enough will cause a loss of power.

 

[poser]

time for a v8 swap

 

[LittleCaesar]

I'd say the valve stem seals as well. They get old and let the oil go by. Ed C could not have said it any better. I'd say replace them, and you should be good to go for another 200,000 miles.

Changed the PCV valve lately? Is the tube from the PCV to the upper manifold wet of oil?

If you want to confirm upper end (valve stem seals) vs. lower end (rings), perform or have another mechanic perform a dry compression test first, then a wet compression test.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070104194232AAqF1bP

 

[LittleCaesar]

Also, try a high mileage oil (Valvoline Max Life or Mobil Super High Mileage) and see if that helps with consumption.

 

[Ed_C]

Also, try a high mileage oil (Valvoline Max Life or Mobil Super High Mileage) and see if that helps with consumption.

Try that too. OP what brand/viscosity oil are you running anyway?

 

[poleclimber63]

Hello all,

At 198,000 miles, I am beginning to develop signs that I need and engine rebuild (according to my mechanic). I burn about a quart of oil every 400 miles and usually get a puff of black smoke on startup. I don't really notice any loss of power or mpg right now and my plugs don't foul out. I just drove it 1700 miles across the country and it did outstanding with about 20 mpg.

I just had the timing belt and water pump done so I think I would like to just rebuild the engine as opposed to buy a crate one or a used one with lower mileage. Plus I love this car and don't want to part with it anytime soon.

Does anyone have advice or recommendations on getting an engine rebuilt? The dealer gave me a quote for $3700 but I plan on shopping around at some local shops in Denver/Colorado Springs.

Get a second opinion on the problem. Just because one mechanic says the top and bottom ends are worn, its worth it to get someone to do some basic checks like a compression and LD test. Could be valve seals or something significantly less expensive than an engine replacement.
I had a rod failure and I struggled with a decision, about an engine, this last Winter. After all the research, I came to the conclusion that, until the large pool of replacement engines drys up, rebuilding isn't worth the money. Prices vary. If you rebuild it will be $3-4k. Swapping can be as cheap as a few hundred for a wrecking yard pull, to $1800 for a clean low mileage JDM. I paid $1500+shipping for a JDM with 45K miles?! When I swapped the components and had a look inside, it was very clean, with little sign of wear. The swap wasn't hard. As far as I'm concerned, it was totally worth it!!! The great thing about the 5VZFE is, all long blocks are compatible. Whether the engine is from a Taco, Tundra, Hiace or whatever. My JDM was from a Japanese domestic Grand Hiace utility van. Hence, the huge supply of long blocks.

If you're worried about the TB/WP job you did recently, swap those components to the replacement. Doing this when the engine is out of the truck is easy, just like the LEGO you had as a kid!

When I had my replacement on an engine stand, I did everything--- and I took my time. That's just me. Most of the work I did was probably not necessary, I just wanted extra long life.

My 2cents.

 

[BrianSD_42]

You should also ask the dealer if they actually do the work and warranty it or if they are simply sub contracting it out. A lot of dealers don't do this type of work and will simply sub out the work to the shop with a good price and then pocket the difference.